I can’t believe what I was told today. 1/2″ cdx up 6 dollars a sheet,3/4″ Advantex up 10 dollars a sheet all in about two weeks.
The lumber yard said all surplus has been shiped to Iraq.
Vince Carbone
Riverside Builders Franklin NY ICQ #47917652
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Replies
I heard this was gonna happen ...then just yesterday the wife said she read something in the NY Times ......
Guess your yard read the same thing!
She read the plants were gonna start shipping directly to Iraq.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
same story here..
guess it's time to ... ( get rid of the lumber tariffs on Canadian wood , huh ? )
u'l never guess what the FedEx man brung me at 6 o'clock tonite ?
... heh, heh, heh..
go stillers...... hope you all make it to the playoffs ..... again Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
...and they just closed a DF plywood plant out here due to "market conditions"...
glad to hear someone was there to sign for it...
they didn't have a no-sign option on shipping....
maybe I'll mail myself one!
Hey ..at least we got to smell the steak before we ate McD's........
Jeff ...better late than never...BuckBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
The biggest reason by far is that the Feds made a huge purchase to rebuild Iraq. The supply dwindled forcing the price up. There were some reasons ie. the wet summer.
Between the price of fuel and plywood it hard to honor quotes written 2 months ago!
Hmm...Bush Starts War. VP's ex-company, Haliburton, gets a multi-billion dollar contract. Bush wants to 'save' the forest by letting loggers cut down more trees. Said trees get shipped to Iraq for Ex pres's Haliburton to nail together.
What has Iraq been using to build for the past several centuries? I can't imagine they use a whole lot of plywood over there. Wouldn't it make more sense to just send the money over there and let local workers use local materials to build indiginous structures? Did we need to involve these billion dollar middle men that ultimately just drive up the cost of domestic products?
You've got the idea.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2003-09-01-plywood_x.htm?csp=20
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Vince,
Two weeks ago I was at the lumber yard with the GC and the guy there told us to stock up on as much plywood as we can and just store it somewhere because there shipping it out to Iraq.
It's not a bad idea if you have alot of jobs coming up.
Joe Carola
Edited 9/4/2003 9:33:41 PM ET by Framer
>The lumber yard said all surplus has been shiped to Iraq.
OK, what gives? A few weeks ago I got jumped on for suggesting the very same thing?!?!? Everyone said, they don't use wood over there....only cementious products. Said it was just a contractor's way of jacking the prices. Am I gonna have to dig out that thread and offer it as defense exhibit #1?
Hey, if any of youse didn't stock up, serves ya right fer not listening to my prognostications! And if you did stock up, I want a cut of the profits!!! <G>
Well, it's a little late for me to stock up,that's what I get for not going to the yard in person and just calling in orders,you don't get to bs with the owner about what's going on. So it's going to cost all of us because I can't change the price on contracts already signed,and we're signed up into next year.
And pretty soon I'm going to have to start coasting down hill all the time if gas prices don't go down.
It seems like the better you do the harder it is to keep some of it.
Thanks Mr Bush, and yes I put the blame for the economy right on him.
He and his friends are making all the money and they ain't going to share any.Vince Carbone
It seems to me the lumber industry is going to make some of the money this time around and far as Bush's friends making the money they still have to pay somebody to work.As far as bids go I am going to start including a clause to cover surges in material costs but this is a good reason to use T & M+ as it covers you in such instances.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
In an interesting sidebar here; NAFTA ruled this week that the US lumber lobby never provided any documentation or proof that Canadian lumber imports were hurting the US lumber industry (you'll recall that all the subsidy, etc. charges fell through and the complaint came down to the fact that the US lumber industry couldn't compete and needed a protectory duty to maintain a viable industry)..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Some detail:
In its ruling, the NAFTA panel said it was "particularly troubled by the extensive lack of analysis" undertaken by the U.S. before making a determination that was based on "considerable speculation and conjecture."
The ITC's threat determination was, therefore, "unsupported by substantial evidence and not in accordance with law," according to the NAFTA panel, comprising three Americans and two Canadians. The panel has given the ITC another 100 days to come up with a better argument to justify countervailing and anti-dumping duties on Canadian exporters who ship, in an average year, about $10 billion in lumber to U.S. buyers.
http://canada.com/national/story.asp?id=80D8DD67-473C-4916-9EF4-8A50042A040F
Too late now for some; and another 100 days will be too late for even more.
My best supplier closed his sawmill--brand new, 100% KD, state of the art, largest mill up here, now bankrupt--about the beginning of the summer. Last week, the lumberyard itself was sold. Don't yet know who the new owner is. Don't even know if I still have an account there. Haven't been in. Makes me wanna puke.
Thanks, US lumber lobby. Friggin pansies. Afraid to fight without a stack of lawyers. Come on out from behind those Harvard Law graduates and compete like men, you woosses! Yah, yur mutha wears army boots! Pusillanimous Pisssants! Yur fadda's mustache is a caterpiller, too!
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
View ImageDinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
In my town we are in a legal battle over a 1/2 cent sales tax to fund among other things green space and a local bus system. No money for local ---but yet we have $$$$ to send to rebuild Iraq, Afganistan, Liberia, Bosnia.
Something wrong.
Vince,
Don't worry about Bush's rich friends. Their gonna spend their money and it's going to "trickle down" to the hungry masses. Isn't that how the republicans think it's supposed to work? And oh yea, I spent that $50 tax rebate check they sent me a while ago. That should help quite a bit. Or was it $200?
Rob Kress
4x8 x 7/16" OSB $14.97 a sheet at the mighty orange. I think the Blackout has something to do with it! That excuss works for all price hikes.
and I have a shidddddddd load of plywood to order in 2 weeks for my house....my yard justt called me yesterday and told me since I didn't place the order last week my costs are gonna be close to dbl now......Oh yeh.I got $400 from Dubya. WOW!!!!!
Why can they recall the California gov but not the pres? Answer: too many
a-holes that support this moron, and guess what.he'll get re-elected I bet....huh? wahhhh?? huh????
a
Emptiness is not really empty, emptiness is full of everything.
The "everything", just isn't manifest
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 9/5/2003 10:06:38 AM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
Ya gotta love it ...
Our arrogant little prick president drums up a war, sends his oil buddies over to "clean up" in more ways than one, sets up for his timber buddies to make a killing, and we pick up the tab. Just cost me several thousand $$$ on the house I'm doing.
You priced Ice and Water Shield lately? Petroleum product, right? Are you ready for $130 a roll? Hey, our economy is great, right?Formerly BEMW at The High Desert Group LLC
If I remember right wasn't George W and some of his buddies involved in a Savings and Loan scandle in Colorado back when daddy was pres, and didn't we hard working tax payers get stuck holding the bag on that one also? Someone refresh my memory.
sniper.. that was another brother.. not George, or Jeb.. you could look it up with Google..
look for Silverado..
they all come from a long family history of ripping off the electorateMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That was his brother Neil, Good thing he had a Daddy in high places. Anybody different would be doing time. Moved out of town in the middle of the night and has not been back since.
Edited 9/7/2003 11:40:02 PM ET by G80104
Bruce.....I paid less than $100 bucks for water and ice shield a cpl of months or so ago.....So now its almost a third more???
Oh yeh, but I forgot about the $400 I got from the Bush administration that everyone in middle amerika that voted for this putz was rah rah rahing about.
Grrrrrrrrrr!#$^!$*^&(*&&*)&()^#%^@!!!!!!!
Be gouged
andy You can "be" the universe, but you can't know it. You are the answer- but you can't know you know.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Remember in November!
M
remember?????? LOL...no problem bro.
"Anyone" but that silver spoon feed pri.......
Be ready to vote
andy The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.
When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
Just checked out your website. Outstanding. I'm up in Vt., but get to L.I. as well as NJ for projects.
Again, great site!
Mark Schiller
M&D Residential Improvements, Inc.
Brattleboro, Vt.
Mark
Thanks a lot and anytime youre on Long Island come check me out and my current circa:1680 house project I'm living in. The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.
When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks.
Mark
And remember to give the wrong answers at the exit interview, no point in helping the networks get it right - keep them guessing !.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Is it me or has Doug Fir jacked up as well?? My load today shocked me...Jake Gulick
Lateapex911@aol.com
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
oh yeh, and one other thing...all the builders that were so in love with Dubya posting mile long threads defending him.....those threads seem to be dwindling as time goes by I notice......just wait!!!!!
Sends a deep chill down my spine every time I hear someone defending him as I shell out all this extra dough for my house for materials and have to explain that to my customers as well.....and the money thats being made for the Bush people with this Iraq war is absolutly insane!!!!
a You can "be" the universe, but you can't know it. You are the answer- but you can't know you know.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
What really pizzes me off, is that having a silver spoon in his mouth all his life he has NO clue what the consequences of all he does, means to working folk like us.
Sure it was nice to get a 400$ check in the mail, for a bout an hour til it was spent on paying bills.
The Hard ship Shrub and his policies are causing to working folks make that 400$ seem like a F@rt in a Monsoon.
Well at least the world is safer witout Osama and Saddam.
And all those weapons of mass Profit.
Well at least with all of our plywood over there the terrorists will save $ on explosives, a wood frame building can be brought down with a lot smaller bomb and a little gas.
What are they gonna fasten that ply to any hoo.
Are studs going to get scarce and expensive too?
WHAT A MESS!!!
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
T
If this doesn't send a chill through some of these peoples minds and shrub gets reelected than......well, you figure it out.
Wepons of mass profit...I like that!!!!
Be well bro
andy
PS I'd like to hear from some Bush supporters already !!!!! Where'd ya all go? You can "be" the universe, but you can't know it. You are the answer- but you can't know you know.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
PS I'd like to hear from some Bush supporters already !!!!! Where'd ya all go?
They are listening to Harsh Dimbulb for some snappy come-backs that shine with the light of unquestionable truth!!!Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Isnt he still grumbling about Clinton? You can "be" the universe, but you can't know it. You are the answer- but you can't know you know.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Not defending the present administration but folks, let's be fair and remember that there is much more to all that happens in the economy than any one president is accountable for, even if they get the glory or blame when it happens.
Seems that many forget to check facts in the rush to make points:
---"Gray Davis:
"No president since Herbert Hoover has seen job losses like this over the course of his term in office," Davis said. "We Democrats respectfully say to the president and his Republican Party: give America back the millions of jobs that your failed policies have taken away."
after four years of the Carter presidency, both inflation and unemployment were considerably worse than at the time of his inauguration. The annual inflation rate rose from 4.8% in 1976 to 6.8% in 1977, 9% in 1978, 11% in 1979, and hovered around 12% at the time of the 1980 election campaign. With approximately 8 million people out of work, the unemployment rate had leveled off to a nationwide average of about 7.7% , but it was considerably higher in some industrial states."---
(Sorry for the wild font. Not my doing, can't "undo" it)
Not defending the present administration but folks, let's be fair and remember that there is much more to all that happens in the economy than any one president is accountable for, even if they get the glory or blame when it happens.
Seems that many forget to check facts in the rush to make points:
---"Gray Davis:
"No president since Herbert Hoover has seen job losses like this over the course of his term in office," Davis said. "We Democrats respectfully say to the president and his Republican Party: give America back the millions of jobs that your failed policies have taken away."
after four years of the Carter presidency, both inflation and unemployment were considerably worse than at the time of his inauguration. The annual inflation rate rose from 4.8% in 1976 to 6.8% in 1977, 9% in 1978, 11% in 1979, and hovered around 12% at the time of the 1980 election campaign. With approximately 8 million people out of work, the unemployment rate had leveled off to a nationwide average of about 7.7% , but it was considerably higher in some industrial states."---
(Sorry for the wild font. Not my doing, can't "undo" it.
EDIT: Isnt that the republicans are saying bout the Democrats? lol-----------------------------------------/
Not to get into it all and the past administrations....but....Haliburton....know who they are? And Vice pres D.C? And no other bids allowed to clean up Iraq? And oil? ...Fish smells even when its fresh and it don't take a fisherman to know which way the wind blows.
Be well
andy You can "be" the universe, but you can't know it. You are the answer- but you can't know you know.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
That's because all us Bush backers are way too busy working for all the rich Bush supporters on the "better" side of the tracks....
Too much work for top dollar customers to take time to join the fun and complain about the cost of ply.....
Hoping all Bush's buddies make tons and make more for their firends that invested in their companies.....so it'll keep trickling down to to my jobs......
Have a good one...be a ply.....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
as it is....I only got half my 6 ordered sheets of PT ply today ...and my lumber yard guy called to say he's clean out ..and don't know when he'll get more....
So a first thing in the morning trip to HD to snap up 3 more is in order .....don;t need then for anything major...just to shim some cab's off a concrete basement floor...so even ripping down the 3 I have would make due....
So as I was driving home today ......I'm thinking.....
about this thread.....
Does it take what I guess to be the youngest in here to have the wisdom of age?
Anyone here bitching about the rising prices and nonexistant materials ever stop to think that....Hey....we're at war here!
If my supply of PT ply is gonna help make some Yankee-Hating Iraqi stop hate us slightly less than he hates Saddam at the moment....then dammit....I'm in!
I'm wondering how you kids woulda done with the rations and self sacrifice's needed from regular ol' American citizens thru other wars.....world and others included.
Sure...no ply today....
then again...no bombings in NYC or planes going down in fields in western PA either.
What'da ya think the odd's that not one attack on the US mainland for almost 2 yrs would have been had we kept the troops at home?
Don't bothering answering ...I know U all are still happy lying to yourselves.
Sure....it's all Bush's fault......what with him trying to take the fight against terrorism to their backyard instead of having them come into ours.
Have fun blaming GW and bitching again tomorrow.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
The only WMD is what Bushy boy laid at the homefront.
IMPEACH THE SLIMEBAG!
a The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.
When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Here's the original post, along with all the skeptics... http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=33803.1 Can't believe y'all missed the opportunity to buy low. <G> My next prediction is that the oil companies are gonna have record profits this year...anyone betting against that?
who'd bet against that?
and you know of any big companies that have vested interests inn oil in our gov't The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.
When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Who me? Suspecting any cause and effect between the actors and the puppet-masters? pshaw...not my nature... :)
"f my supply of PT ply is gonna help make some Yankee-Hating Iraqi stop hate us "
I don't think plywood is really all that much of a concession for their dessimated economy and the fact that we're still IN their country making a mess of things.
Yea, we gotta rebuild, so let's do it, but you'd think we could be a bit more resourceful with local materials over there.
---"Gray Davis:
"No president since Herbert Hoover has seen job losses like this over the course of his term in office," Davis said. "We Democrats respectfully say to the president and his Republican Party: give America back the millions of jobs that your failed policies have taken away."
after four years of the Carter presidency, both inflation and unemployment were considerably worse than at the time of his inauguration. The annual inflation rate rose from 4.8% in 1976 to 6.8% in 1977, 9% in 1978, 11% in 1979, and hovered around 12% at the time of the 1980 election campaign. With approximately 8 million people out of work, the unemployment rate had leveled off to a nationwide average of about 7.7% , but it was considerably higher in some industrial states."---
FWIW -
Gray Davis' quote is correct as he is talking about job losses rather than unemployment. They are not the same and they are measured in rather different ways. Unemployment only counts those who are actively looking for jobs. If there are people who would like a job but have given up and are just sitting at home for things to get better, they don't get counted as unemployed. If people think things are getting better and decide to stop sitting around start looking for work, the numbers of unemployed could rise markedly.
Surprisingly, as bad as things were during the "stagflation" of the Carter administration, job creation was the strongest under that administration than any administration from the second world war up until the Clinton administration. During the Carter administration jobs gains were calculated at 218,000 jobs gained per month while during the two terms of the Reagan administration it was about 166,000 jobs per month (if you look only at the 2nd Reagan term, then it was about 224,000/mo for those four years). During Clinton's two terms it was about 238,000 per month. During W. Bush's administration thus far, it has been a loss of about 69,000 jobs per month. The current Bush's administration is the only administration since WWII during which there was a net loss of jobs. (There is always the possibility that a massive job creation miracle could occur and balance out all the job losses during the one remaining year, I guess, but I don't count on it.
Thus, as strange as it may seem, the fact is that it is possible to have both high job generation and high unemployment if workers are starting to look for jobs faster than the jobs are being created.
However, you are certainly correct when you state that some "forget to check facts in the rush to make points"...
Edited 9/9/2003 8:19:00 PM ET by CaseyR
However, you are certainly correct when you state that some "forget to check facts in the rush to make points"...
Here's a fact - The prime lending rate under Jimmy Carter was 18%, now it's less than 5%. If you need to borrow money for your business, which rate would you rather use?"It doesn't take a lumber jack to climb a fallen tree"
Marv
Jimmy Carters rate...
'cause he's not Bush!
Or a republican ....dammit!!
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
---"18%,"--- ?
That summer, we paid 22% on our cattle, line of credit loans, 14% on the 30 year ones.
We were just starting to come out of Nixon's price freezes wreck when Carter's administration "happened".
Ah, the price freezes. Another unbelievably stupid thing done by an overreaching government. Let's hope we never are dumb enough to go back to that.
Now, as a young'un can you fill me in on just how they affected you personally? Carter is the first president I remember.
I've seen how price fixing has led to a huge shortage of apartments in NYC and other places, but only read about wide spread price fixing. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
That's what happens when you have run-away deficit spending/ borrowing by governments - doesn't matter if it's the US or Burundi..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
If you're retired and living on your interest, which would you rather have?
If you're retired and living on your interest, which would you rather have?
The answer you want to hear is the lower rate. But how 'bout the consumer that wants to buy a car and has to pay 20%?"It doesn't take a lumber jack to climb a fallen tree"
Marv
I'm on the borrowing side, so I like low rates. My mom, however, is living on interest. My sister and I have previously gotten a check for the surplus that she doesn't need each year. We won't be gettin' that bonus this year.
"Well at least the world is safer witout Osama and Saddam."
I wasn't aware that we were now without Osama and Saddam. And I'm not convinced that the world is safer. If we are safer here, it is because of the stepped up security, not because of what we done militarily. Doesn't Bush keep telling us that the security apparatus continues to prevent terrorist activity????
Rich Beckman
Time to dump the federal Dept. of Education
Andy,
I hear what you are saying more and more each day!!!!!!! Guess what? I live in a rural area in WNC I get paid about $10-12.00 less an hour. BECAUSE insurance companies and Medicare reimburse rural areas less. What is fair with that may I ask???
Okay back onto what you are saying....WHO DO YOU THINK WOULD DO BETTER?????? Sorry I just am not impressed with ANY that have signed up to run for the democrats. I am thinking that Ross Perot is the man. WHere is he now?????Tamara
What size roll are you talking about--an what quality?
I priced the stuff a week ago here (Quebec): $66.Can/65'x36". This is Bakkor standard sanded top. (Not BLueskin).
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Did you catch on some of the news last week that Cheney is getting a residual income from Haliburton of $1,000,000. a year? while he is VP. Of course Haliburton is getting a lion share of the $$$ for rebuilding Iraq as they did for rebuilding Kuwait in the last war. Gee, no conflict of interest there???? These guys have no shame. Then Bush gets on the air and says they need ANOTHER 87$BILLION. no problem but we know who is paying for that one.
What we seem to have here is a government that no longer represents the people but only big labor, big corporations all represented by lobbyists. Who is representing us?
I don't recall that there has been a time since Bush took office that our government represented the populace. It's been nothing but an endless profitfest pig-out for his corporate cronies.Formerly BEMW at The High Desert Group LLC
So what other company aside from Haliburton should get the work?
As to the oil fires in Kuwait...I know guys that went in as subs ...and Haliburton was the most qualified and well equiped company to do the work. Some said if Haliburton didn't go .....no one else coulda filled the position ....US companies that is.
Names...I want names and resumes.....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Jeff
There was no bidding on the clean up of Iraq bro. Haliburton got the job instantly..wonder how that happened.
Be well bro
andy The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.
When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I need more than opinion here buddy.....
facts..I want facts, names and dates.
So where's the outcry from all the 'other" competitive companies that are getting screwed on these jobs?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
There was no bidding on the job..FACT! The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.
When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
From what little I remember, I believe the story from the White House was that Halliburton got the job because they wrote the plan for Iraq under a previous contract and thus were considered to have the most expertise on what to do there. Supposedly, they did go against some competition on the bid to do the plan, but I have no idea how serious it all was.
I read somewhere that the most serious complaints about the lack of bidding have been from foreign governments who feel their companies were frozen out in Iraq - but you know how sympathetic Rummy is to "old europe"...
"There was no bidding on the job..FACT!"
I think that what happened was that they ask other companies to bid.
But they had all been reading Breaktime and said that they wanted to be paid up front for the bids.
Only Haliburton said that they would give a free bid so they go the job.
Bill
Good one..lol The way we regard death is critical to the way we experiance life.
When your fear of death changes, the way you live your life changes.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Fact is too that....
NPR had an exec from Haliburton on a couple of weeks ago. There was no public bid on the contracts in Iraq. But there was an open bid for the original studies performed, something like feasibility / etc. and everyone understood on those bids that the winner would likely get the contract. Haliburton was low on those.
remodeler
Just follow Canadian/French/German/Brazilian business news - lots of angst..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I need more than opinion here buddy.....
facts..I want facts, names and dates.
So where's the outcry from all the 'other" competitive companies that are getting screwed on these jobs?
As much as I hate to give the opposition ammunition, Rad Adair's Texas group was ready and willing to go in but got blanked out of the whole process."It doesn't take a lumber jack to climb a fallen tree"
Marv
Andy,
I haven't read any further than this, maybe bobl or RonT chimed in, but just so you know...GSA maintains a listing of companies which they have already established contracts with for services. This listing saves the Gov't time and money so that every time there is a need, each individual agency doesn't have to go out and do a procurement which involves writing up a statement of work, publishing the notice in the Federal Register, accepting bids, evaluating bids, etc.. All that work is done up front and the result is a Co. ready to perform the service at a competitive rate when the Gov't needs it.Frank
Jeff.
With all due respect, there are probably thousands of neurosurgeons in NY. Who knows how many nationwide. And you are saying there is only ONE company that can fix oil wells? In fact there are only about 5 big construction companies that get most of the government work Bechtel, Halliburton, Brown and Root to name a few. The reason why they get all the goverment work is because they give HUGE amounts of money to both the Dem's and Republican party campaign funds and are right there when the pork gets handed out. Your buddies who went as subs no doubt did all the dirty and dangerous work while the rest of the executives are playing golf with Biffy and Chad and looking for the next war opportunity they can sell to the average US citizen. The worst part is we are paying for all this with deficit money that your kids will be paying the debt on for their lives. I saw an interview with Senator McCain and he said the pork is at a record level now and he is right, I wish he had made it as president, He is an honest man in my opinion.
"So what other company aside from Haliburton should get the work?"
How about an Iraqi company? Or maybe more than one Iraqi company? Or how about any company willing to partake in a bidding process?
Haliburton is a US company, so a lot of money we give them will be recycled into our economy (as we're seeing with the plywood) so it's not all bad.
What's bad is that the VP used to run the company. That's simply an outrageous conflict of interest.
"I believe the story from the White House was that Halliburton got the job because they wrote the plan for Iraq under a previous contract"
Hmm...makes you wonder if they KNEW this war was coming, eh? (wink, wink)
Actually, it's been said that the afghan war had been planned well in advance of 9/11. All sorts of conspiracy theories can come of that, but I think there is little doubt that this regime...er...republican leadership has been well prepared and ready for war.
I've been reading Gore Vidal's latest book. One of the funniest (and scariest) portions of the book is a paragraph at the end of one of his essay's written prior to Bush taking office. I'm paraphrasing, but he made a prediction that there will definitely be tax cuts for the wealthy and one or two wars to keep the military industrial complex pumping along. I'm not sure if I'm scared because he predicted that, or that it was simply so easy to predict that.
"How about an Iraqi company?"
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Haliburton is the only companyin the WORLD that is capable of these big jobs.
Excellence is its own reward!
BS. It's just the best connected US company..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I got that BS from that great liberal publishing empire, Time..
Excellence is its own reward!
Bill...try to put a bit more thought into your posts.
How about putting a couple more words into your post. I'm confused about what you mean.
oh, I see you are adressing Bill.
I thought he had some thopughts there, if disjointed and maybe based on preconcieved myths..
Excellence is its own reward!
Maybe you should have put more though, MUCH MORE THOUGH, into that comment.
If fact ANY THOUGHT would have been an improvement.
Bill: Whay are you laughing at the suggestion that Iraqi companies do the major work to their own country?
I'm not trying to be an ####, I made a comment, you had a response without anything to respond too. I'm interested in your opinion. But you need to explain it.
And, actually, I'll honor your request as well. Here's the thought put into my comment:
Iraq is a fairly modern country. Very high level of education. They have had a lot of trouble over the past decade of trade embargos, of course.
Most Iraqis aren't happy with the current situation. They may not actually hate the US, but they're not to happy that they now have a country with little organization and/or economy.
I'm not sure if allowing a US company to come in to rebuild things is going to help the feelings of Iraqis working for work. If we want to spread a bit of good will, I think the best thing we could do is give them jobs that directly affect the future of their own country.
It sounds like you disagree, and I'd love to hear why.
They where intially hired about 2-4 weeks before the fighting started. So that they would be available to roll in immediately behind the troops and clean up any oil well fires.
I can just see it now. The US has a 100,000 troops on the border and has given Saddam the deadline. And they say, oh Saddam baby while we are waiting to invade we would like permission to send a trade group to get bids from your oil company.
Bill:
There's much more to the contract than the oil well capping (which wasn't actually needed to any great extent). They've been contracted to pretty much build/rebuild everything. That's what I think people are upset about.
As for free estimates, I think when you can safely pad the bill a bit to the tune of billions of dollars, and know you're guaranteed the contract because your ex-boss is now the VP, well, I guess I can't blame them. ;o) ;o) ;o)
There are no Iraqi well service companies. The Iraqis have hired it done since the beginning of the oil age. If there were any Iraqi well service companies, they wouldn't have any employees, since the Arabs don't do scut work and all the Indian and Philippinos left when the war loomed.
If we're only talking about oil wells, then yea, no argument there.
And, to be honest, I have no idea how haliburton is going to be spending our *80+ Billion dollars over there. Maybe they are hiring Iraqis.
Osama Bin Hidin's Dad made his $$ in construction.
Give the contract to him.Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Looks like I'll make good on my November call contracts for CDX. I might go long and buy Georgia-Pacific....
remodeler
Seems forest fires in British Columbia and the USA bought 20 million square feet of plywood for Iraq. Details on http://www.nbnnews.com/NBN/issues/2003-09-01/lead.html
Thanks for fixing that terrible loud font on that "copy and paste".
Need to learn more computer tricks, I guess.
The reason I mentioned that about Carter's presidency is because his administration brought interes rates to 22%, put embargoes on grain to Russia and closed the Olympics, that were held there, to all US citizens, all on "moral grounds because the russians were not granting their people the human rights they should" as the front excuse.
The others are open to debate as they were, like your "Halliburton" one, conjectures. BTW, Halliburton at that time also profited plenty. They have a habit of being in the right place at the right time, but our cynism does not a fact make.
Guess who benefited from all that? The big companies.
Guess who went bankrupt? All the little producers. It took us 22 years to pay those losses off and still suffer from that today.
So around here osb is going for $14 for 7/16 and 3/4 sturdifloor plywood for $18 (at Home Despot) as of sept 6th.
Just skimming through this thread. Very interesting, well the Bush is the devil impeach him stuff was pretty silly, but this article was very interesting.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2003-09-01-plywood_x.htm?csp=20
Not sure how many of you read it, so I'm reposting it.
The military is buying 20 million feet of plywood. Mostly to build things for our troops.
QUOTING ARTICLE: "The $13.3 million purchase is relatively tiny — about 300 million feet of plywood sheeting is sold monthly. But in an industry facing surging demand, the deal — and rumors that more lumber is headed for Iraqi reconstruction efforts — is fueling an already overheated market,"
Now, this order is a factor, but a relatively minor one. The article lists many other things.
- Supplies were already low.
- Record # of housing starts (much more then anyone predicted)
- Bad weather affecting logging
- Forest fires
- Coming hurricane season
- Possibility of more Iraq orders
Basic economics. Supply is low, demand is high, prices go up. Supply is likely to remain low for several months, with demand anticipated to grow. I'm afraid prices are gonna stink for awhile.
About 7 years ago I built a workshop, and plywood prices had just spiked. Had I waited 6-8 months I could have saved lots of money as the prices dropped again. I feel sorry for those of you who don't have this option. In fact, prices dropped so far I put 1/2" chipboard on the inside walls instead of sheetrock because by the time I got to the interior it was really cheap ($4.50/4'x6' sheet). Spikes in prices happen sometimes, war or no war.
But again, an interesting article. You'll might want to read it again.
Oh, the article states most of this plywood is to build gaurd shelters ect. for the troops.