Hello,
We are planning a 24′ long, 36″ wide wheelchair ramp. Total Rise is 36″. We plan to support the “stringers” at 6, 12, and 18 feet. Will a 2×8 with a 2×6 cleat be sufficient for these spans? To clarify, ea stringer will have a 2×8 on the exterior, with a 2×6 sistered to it to support the 36″ 2×6 deck boards.
The 2003 IRC allows a double 2×6 to span 8′ (our local deck design parameters). So I am thinking that a 2×8/2×6 combo will be more than adequate.
Are there any efficient methods to support the 2×6 pt decks boards at midspan. I have some ideas, but wanted to see what others have done. Although I am comfortable with stairs, this is my first ramp, and wanted to get some input from some the real carpenters out there.
Thanks
Replies
It's too steep.
Jeff
Jeff has it right....36" rise requires a minimum of 36 feet of incline at a minimum. A 1 inch rise per foot of run minimum. If it is commercial or otherwise coded one might need a 1/2" rise per foot of run, or in the OP's case a tota; of 72 feet of incline.
To answer your question on the span it would be useful to know the width of the ramp. Likewise you should check your local code requirements on spans.
There are also specific details as to the maximum length of run before there must be a level section of ramp, as well as railing requirements to assist in preventing wheels from rolling off, allowing users to grasp a handrail and pull themselves us the ramp, and proper height railing for ambulatory persons.
Google "ADA Ramp"...have fun reading.........Iron Helix
PS....Many years ago when I was young and this set of specs came out, I though it was over-kill. Time and experience have shown me how important it is to provide all a safe and readily acessable entrance to public facilities as well as residential and private buildings.
There are also specific details as to the maximum length of run before there must be a level section of ramp, as well as railing requirements to assist in preventing wheels from rolling off, allowing users to grasp a handrail and pull themselves us the ramp, and proper height railing
Will generally be no section more than 20' long without a landing (and two equal lengths often preferred). In-line ramp has to (generally) be twice width in length. In some cases, landing have to be twice width to allow trafic around.
Deck code will probably require railings for any surface more than 30" above ground. Which then will trigger a need to rail both sides of the ramp, and 10" beyonf, top and bottom. Rail width and minimum clear distance is prescribed, as is the grasping width of the rail, all with the need for positive "toe" stops continuously.
Find out what code your AHJ is using, as there are some brand new rules for placing texture changes for visually-impared persons (ramps are not just for wheelchairs).
Worst part about wooden ramps is the fact that you have to taper them down to no more than 1/2" to the bottom landing surface. Tapering 2x "treads" gets to be as much fun as having the stringers taper down to 1/4" tall points about 15-18" shy of the end of the ramp (BTDT).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Ok, in response to all who have helped, Thanks
I obviously have a lot to consider here. But let me clarify the design parameters.
The homeowner has a 36" wide porch that she wants a ramp up to. The porch is 30' from the street where she parks. She already knew that the pitch would be too steep for a code compliant straight run. She specifically did not want to wind the ramp in order to meet the 1:12 requirement. There fore, in the permit application, this is a "ramp". Not a handicap ramp. That designation allows the HO to build a ramp as steep as they like. (I've done this before on a new home with a concrete approach). We will definitely have to have railings @ 30". We will be installing railings from the halfway point to the top. I haven't considered the toe boards, but I will add them anyway, that is a good idea.
We're under the 2003 IRC here, but my code book is in the office, and I will verify the spans etc tomorrow. I never considered the tapering treads. That definitely sounds like a pain. Now I'm gonna read all the posts again, cause there is a lot to digest.
Thanks Everyone
David
I see a couple problems.your title of thread indicates this is a wheelchair ramp.
So you can say all you or the customer wants that this is not a handicap ramp. Call it a circus elephant ramp if that is what they want to call it, but if it is to be used for a person in a wheelchair, it is in fact a handicap ramp.
And when that person is hurt on that ramp because it is too steep and somebody loses control, you will be the professional named in the lawsuit or brought up on charges of negligence. We are charged as professionals for knowing the right thing to do and making sure that it gets done, NOT for finding ways around the rules and standards that were developed and tested to keep people safe from themselves.There IS an easy alternative to running this perpendicular to the porch and the street that meets the need and the standard both. A ramp can run the 36 feet with mid and end landing and turn at top to the deck surface.
"She specifically did not want to wind the ramp"When a customer request forces us to build unsafe, it is time to educate them to the need to change and adapt or to leave the job to other fools to do.The other problem I can see is that in most places a structure cannot be placed within certain setbacks from the street. 5', 15' 50' whatever. Rarely can it start right at the edge of the street.
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Piffin,
Your points are well taken. This whole project was a convoluted mess before I was invited to join. The plans had already been approved by the city before I was recruited. The plans were drawn up by a handyma'am/friend of the family who was going to buid the ramp for the family. When they discovered that the ramp would need a permit, they drew up a sketch, clearly labelled pitch of 1:8, and submitted it.
At the point that I was invited, the family had asked if I would go to the city, pick up the plans, sign the permit as the contractor, and help the handyma'am build it. The handyma'am has helped me a lot in the past, so I said sure.
Now, your comments about knowing better as a professional, and building properly, and potential lawsuits, are sticking with me. I would never install a window that doesn't meet egress, because I know better, this is the same situation.
Having said all of that, I will finish this job, but I will be much more aware of this situation the next time someone asks for a ramp.
Also, in my description of sending the ramp to the street, it will end at the setback. there will actuall be 6' from the end of the ramp to the curb. That is what I meant by taking the ramp to the street.
Thanks
Good job on responding.I learned to think of such as risk management, not risk removal. Sometimes that's all you can do.
I hired a sub to build one once. I specifically pointed out that we had exactly the necessary space to build it to 1:12. They figured a way to make it a tad steeper. The guy in the wheelchair knew it immediately and showed my how easy it was to tip over backwards. We changed it. I wouldn't build one 1:8. I'd let the handyman do it. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
When I buils a ramp, I set 2-4x4 posts about every 8', keeping them apart the width of the ramp. I then run 16' 2x8 joists between the posts, starting the ramp. I bolt the 2 outside joists to the 4x4s. Then I install 2x8s to the posts, again bolting them, butting them up against the bottom of the ramp joists. After that, I install the middle joist(s).
I've used both PT plywood, and 1x and 2x 6 decking for the ramp surface. The deck boards, IMO, are better, since you get more traction. I run the deck boards the width of the ramp; perpendicualr to the joists.
For a ramp with a 36" rise, I'd figure at least 36' long. I'd also have a level platform somewhere in the middle, about 4' x 4'. And be sure to allow for the grade in the yard when you determine the ramp length.
Also, 36" is a little tight. I prefer making them 42", or even 48" wide.
"Also, 36" is a little tight. I prefer making them 42", or even 48" wide."I have to clarify for customers what they are asking for on someething like this. 36" free and clear of obstructions or 36" wide minus railings set in from edge making it maybe 28" which is far too narrow.
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ADA requirements are for a pitch of 1/12 so for a rise of three feet, you need a 36' run.
And the 1:12 pitch is the MAXIMUM - ask someone in a wheelchair - it's sometimes pretty tough to do 1:12.
Max. length without landings is 30' too, which affects this design.
Jeff
You are right. I worded that poorly and forgot the landing, but saw that it had been mentioned so didn't need to edit my post.One of these that I built did run about 22' and no problem on the lenghth, but the original plans showed too steep at only 16' long. I rarely ignore plans but knew that would not work and the grade was a variable so I assumed the plan was too. So I ran it out to 22-24 feet to get a 1/12 pitch. Owner pitched a fit because I had used more lumber and money until his handicapped family member told him he would have had to spend even more building it all over again if it had been any steeper than what I'd built it! She had some sort of comic description of a wheelchair tumbling #### over teacup down to t he bottom of the hill that had us both laughing.
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I spent 6 months in a wheel chair 25 years ago after falling off a roof and breaking my back.
So I have a lot of sympathy for the disabled. A lot of contractors really have no clue on what is needed to make a comfortable ramp.
And part of that is convincing the client to build what they need, not what they want.
Right! or what they think they want.
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ADA requirements are for a pitch of 1/12 so for a rise of three feet, you need a 36' run.
2x8 will span 12' at 16"OC for most places. That would allow you to support at 12.24.36 - actually using fewer supports along the way.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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While ADA guidelines are a pretty good idea I question if they apply to a single family residence. Sometimes a chair bound person just may have to have some help climbing a ramp. I never got any more info on latest NC code but 1:8 was legal but 1:12 certainly is more manageable, 1:20 is great if you have room and can afford it.
My point is not about rules but about safety. The ADA did not arbitrarily pick a pitch and say let's go with this. A wheelchair bound person has to be able to navigate a ramp. if it is too steep, they or a person pushing/pulling it for them can loose control and roll away or flip over.Sure there are plenty of muscular users of wheelchairs and family friends who may enjoy the challenge of a steeeper ramp time to time, but the time comes when they get tired or feeling off and there ya go - Boom Boom Boo-Boo!
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this might help
Nice, thanks for sharing!! Also backs up my post to Pif, ADA n/a single family residence.
"Traditional design guidelines call for a
maximum ramp slope of 1:12. In other
words, you will need twelve inches of
ramp for every inch of rise. In fact,
many people struggle while using 1:12
sloped ramps because they find it
difficult to wheel up or maintain
walking balance. For this reason a
slope of 1:16 slope is recommended
where possible."Say again?
Where does it agree with you that steeper is OK?
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I did not say it was ok to be steeper, I was talking about the ADA not being applicable/required, etc in single family residences. I said that what they called for was what should be but is not a law for residences.
I support challenged people being able to be independent but sometimes you just can not make it happen. The booklet Shrum linked looks great.
All I was getting at was sometimes you just have to do what you can. A 1:8 or 1:12 works for a challenged person to be pushed up by non-challenged person or for egress without help in case of fire. I would rather be out in the yard upside down in a chair instead of in the fire.
Once again I was only saying that ADA is not applicable to all, it used to even exempt churches.
http://www.ada.gov/reg3a.html
Sec.36.102 Application.
(a) General. This part applies to any --
(1) Public accommodation;
(2) Commercial facility; or
(3) Private entity that offers examinations or courses related to applications, licensing, certification, or credentialing for secondary or postsecondary education, professional, or trade purposes.
(b) Public accommodations. (1) The requirements of this part applicable to public accommodations are set forth insubparts B, C, and D of this part.
(2) The requirements of subparts B and C of this part obligate a public accommodation only with respect to the operations of a place of public accommodation.
(3) The requirements of subpart D of this part obligate a public accommodation only with respect to --
(i) A facility used as, or designed or constructed for use as, a place of public accommodation; or
(ii) A facility used as, or designed and constructed for use as, a commercial facility.
(c) Commercial facilities. The requirements of this part applicable to commercial facilities are set forth in subpart D of this part.
(d) Examinations and courses. The requirements of this part applicable to private entities that offer examinations or courses as specified in paragraph (a) of this section are set forth in Sec.36.309.
(e) Exemptions and exclusions. This part does not apply to any private club (except to the extent that the facilities of the private club are made available to customers or patrons of a place of public accommodation), or to any religious entity or public entity.
Edited 7/31/2008 9:52 am ET by rasconc
Edited 7/31/2008 6:53 pm ET by rasconc
OK, I miss read what you meant
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talking about the ADA not being applicable/required ... is not a law for residences.
That is technically very true.
But, do you want to be sitting in that very very lonely chair next to the bench in the very very artificial world of a courtroom with only that on your side?
Personally, it scares me witless that OP talked about only using a hand rail for half the length. That creates a trip hazard for the able and less-able. Client's cousin busts a leg skiing and hangs up a crutch on that half-rail's first post and goes over the side? "Oh yeah, I talked to some guys on the internet, and averaged their input" . . . yeah, right.
It's good to remember, too, that the Law which is ADA, was and is a political compromise. Practical considerations, like tapering wooden treads to 1/2" tall while also no more than 1:12 are of no consequence to the law or the lawmakers. ADA is not at all like the Building Codes, which typically begin from some sort of practical groups (if often very much removed from the reality of construction).
Consider that ramp design ideals are far shallower, 1:24 for ramps; 1:48 for flatwork (that limited by needing a plumbing pitch to drain).
Just because some rule do not apply is no reason to heave them out of the boat. Though, most seem to anyway, given the 9" rise, 8" run stairs I've seen, and lamp cord wiring, and abs gas piping and the like . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)