Replies

1. 
   calvin_ | Jan 10, 2002 02:51pm | #1

   *
   Interesting isn't it. Some want a showpiece and others want something they can work in, stores all their crappola and makes the food taste better. I for one, wouldn't eat dinner with the showpc. folks. Being one man, with no design/marketing wing I often relied on the kitchen suppliers design crew. This was a mistake recently when I heard those dreaded words during install "I thought......". In retrospect, this was the first time that the customer didn't have a clue what she was getting after the design phase. Maybe once in a while isn't bad, but I think that I will get more involved in the planning......at least be there at the final meeting with the planner and customer b/4 the cabs are ordered. Using my experience I will try to walk through the whole kitchen with them and note all specialty items, door swings etc. What is usual is not always what that one particular customer wants. In estimating the install I would usually have a per box install price to use to get the total. I think if I were able to pick out the "don't have a clue customer" in advance, I would adjust that cost higher to make up for the headache. Pricing out all the counter options isn't that big of a deal. There are rough costs/ft that you should be able to plug in that would give them an idea (make sure you tell them it's not firm till you get more of a commitment in the choice). They usually are just trying to get the most for their budget. Course, if they tell you the budget b/4 hand, you should be able to offer them the options that'll fit. That said, I've got one now that I have just
   b about
   finalalized after a yr and 1/2 and mama mia has this been a chore. I know I have used up my normal price for planning and now I've got to bury the extra in other areas of the total price.

   I have maybe wasted space and your time since I think some of the custom cabinet guys around here would have more of a handle on how to deal with this type of client as they must deal with design daily. Best of luck. Now tell me, how do you install that prefinished crown on full overlay cabs?

1. 
   SHGLaw | Jan 10, 2002 05:58pm | #2

   *This is why cab manufacturers have brochures. You show them the pictures and ask what they like. The people who have no clue aren't trying to be abusive, but likely lack the ability to visualize and have no strong feelings in the beginning. But they will have strong feelings as reality sets in.This is another reason to carry around a portfolio of your work. Also, if you can provide costs relative to the photos, it gives them an idea of what their money can buy and where they should focus their attention.Just because they're clueless doesn't mean their money isn't green.SHG

1. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Jan 10, 2002 06:07pm | #3

   *You have to get paid for whatever time it takes to clearly define what they want before you give them a price on any work. Once you take that step, planning a job becomes another source of income, not a necessary evil. Why should you give away the knowledge you've gained in the school of hard knocks?

1. 
   Dan-O | Jan 10, 2002 09:17pm | #4

   *Hi Derek,An un informed customer is your opportunity to sell yourself. You'll need to take them by the hand and walk them through "Derek's Way of Re modeling."Oh, by the way, you are being used as a designer.And you'll be that throughout any project you're breathing life into.Dan-O

1. 
   Scott_R | Jan 10, 2002 10:02pm | #5

   *I've found that a large portion of these people want to be told what they want. They don't have a single clue about remodeling and can't visualize, even when you show pictures of things like cabinets, they can't visualize those cabinets in their kitchen. (but will say the can to not look stupid) So they want to hear words such as "I did a kitchen similar to yours, such and such looked real good, here's an example". Nine times out of ten... Sold.Scott R.

2. 
   Mark_McDonnell | Jan 11, 2002 12:38am | #6

   *When faced with a client as you've described, I suggest they hire me, right there, on the spot, to help them make design choices to arrive at a budget or price. If you answer all their questions and lay out some of the possibilities, you'll most likely leave with a check.This is completly divorced from the cost of the actual work. Jim, Dan, Scott are all correct, make it profitable for every hour you spend.I usually suggest a retainer to secure my services, (define exactly what those services will be, consulting and/or design, plans? ect.....) There have been a number of discussions on this board on the highlights and pitfalls of "design services" and you'll have to conclude what level you wish to offer.The bottom line is just that. Figure out a way to provide a service to people like this that provides income. They will buy. Your at an enviable position to be there from start to finish.

3. 
   Schelling_McKinley | Jan 11, 2002 06:46am | #7

   *Every customer and every job is different. When I am building a house from an incomplete set of plans, I will often farm out the design of the kitchen to the supplier of the cabinets. This takes a big bone of contention off my table when I have a hundred other decisions to pry out of the owner. Other times a customer is hiring us because of a specific job they liked. In this case we can easily take care of their design needs.We have had a long time customer who simply cannot read a set of plans or even comprehend a simple drawing. After many years we use full size mock-ups whenever possible to try out ideas. Last spring my partner build a 20' by 14' diamond and carried it around the site until she was completely happy with the layout of the prospective building. This work is of course all gladly paid for.

4. 
   Derek_Sowers | Jan 12, 2002 10:35am | #8

   *Thanks for the tips. As of today I will have a new approach to selling. I am going to get as many photos and brochures from my cabinet supplier and improve my photo portfolio. What I really need to learn is how to charge for design.thanksDerek

5. 
   S._Lykos | Jan 16, 2002 06:28am | #9

   *Derek, I subscribed to 3-4 laymen type remodeling magazines. Each month as they came in I cut out certain photos based upon size of kitchen or bath only. These went into either a Kitchen or Bath photo album type book with clear sleeves to protect each page.I used to take them to sales calls and when I found a couple who didn't have an idea of what they wanted, I left the book with them. I told them that they should look at everything in each photo and to think about traffic patterns if it was a kitchen project, lighting type, etc. I told them that for example, while one photo showed a kitchen much larger than theirs but perhaps they liked the beams in the ceiling, or the crown molding with concealed lighting, and is the reason I suggested to look at every detail in each photo.Meanwhile I took photos of the existing room, make a sketch of the dimensions, locations of electrical and other basic stuff. While there I set up another apointment for 3-4 days later. While at the office I converted the sketch and info to a scale drawing with nothing else in it - ran about 3-4 copies of that and took them back to the client with me at the next appt.Sure enough, by then they had a pretty good idea of what they wanted, cabinets, tops, faucets, tile type, etc. All I had to do was answer questions, make a couple of suggestions discuss a few details with them to clarify things and to bring everything together. Meanwhile, those blank scale drawing pages came in handy to sketch in the design.Worked like a charm and they never even thought of getting competitive bids. Once you've shown professionalism, understanding of their plight and sincerity in helping the resolve their decision making process, you have sold yourself, or rather, they have "sold" themselves on you.

6. 
   blue_eyed_devil_ | Jan 16, 2002 07:26pm | #10

   *Geez Sonny, can I kiss your ring?Now I know why I failed at residential remodeling!I think I could do it now....blueps aint gonna happen here..