Looking to get away without a set of stairs (and the mandatory accompanying handrail) off of a low sitting deck.
Currently, stepping off of the deck into the yard varies greatly. 10″ at one end, 18″ at the other. And then also, the grade pitches oddly.
Thinking of incorporating “steps”, between a pair of grade level planters. Trouble is, a traditional set of steps would require a handrail, as there would be at least three risers.
Wondering at what point a step becomes a platform?
Two foot deep? Three foot?
Can I get away with two, two foot deep platforms no more than 8″ in height?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Replies
Interestingly, I had an experience with that. Our code didn't require steps or railing for a low deck like your situation, but the homeowner's insurance carrier did! We just lowered the deck.
Might want to check both "authorities".
Forrest
don't know the answer to your question, but
saw a show recently on hgtv (dwell, IIRC) and to get away without a railing on ther deck they raised the level of the lawn, inside a 4x4 frame.
Thanks....that was a thought. Unfortunately with the grade of this yard, it would just be too much.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Wondering at what point a step becomes a platform?
Probably somewhere between 36" & 48", since that (might) imply a transverse "use" making it a platform.
A person might could make an argument a platform is one "chair" wide. That would get you in the 27"-33" range.
I'm figuring 36" is likely the minimum.
Just wondering if anyone knows for sure.
Thanks.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Looking to get away without a set of stairs (and the mandatory accompanying handrail) off of a low sitting deck.
I always thought the magic number was 30" above finished grade; anything higher than 30" required ballustrades and associated handrails, whereas anything lower requires nothing at all.
Yeah, 30" popped into my brain too. (For what that's worth!)
Oh really? Hmmmmm.
I had always thought that once you had more than a single step, a handrail was required.
Thanks....I'll look into that.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
I had always thought that once you had more than a single step, a handrail was required.
What does your local building inspector say?
I recall that anything with 3 risers or less does not need a handrail, and a deck 24" or less off the ground does not need a guardrail. But these could just be Wisconsin (or local) codes, and my code book is not with me.
Also seem to recall something about a long set of stairs being required to be broken up with minimum 3x3 landings, every 16 or 18 risers. So maybe the authorities would consider a 3x3 as minimum to be considered a platform.
Bowz
I had always thought that once you had more than a single step, a handrail was required.
I've seen some goofy stairs (interior, if that matters) in new construction lately: there are two risers leading to a landing, and THEN the newel post and the rest of the stairs run up from there.
There are NO handrails leading up to this intial landing.
The first time I saw one of these, I thought maybe it was some sort of screw-up. But now I've seen a number of them, and they've ALL gone on market and sold without the inspector calling for handrails up those first couple of steps to the landing.
All I can figure is that this is a literal interpretation of the 30" rule: the initial landing is less than 30" above the finished floor, so nothing is required.
Let us know what your own inspector says -- I'm absolutely sure we'll get a consistent answer. ;)
Here's a picture of one of those new construction houses I mentioned. Note how the handrail on the wall doesn't extend below the initial landing.
View Image
JDR,
I think the dimension in question will vary by code jurisdiction, but my recollection is 18" or less to grade from a deck does not require a handrail and consequently no rail at a stair/step from the same height.
In regards to the pic posted, I think my numbers would explain the lack of railing/balusters from the newel down, but I'm surprised there's no rail on the wall, especially since it would be so easy to continue the existing one, more of a common sense thing to do than it being a code requirement, IMO.
Geoff
...but I'm surprised there's no rail on the wall, especially since it would be so easy to continue the existing one, more of a common sense thing to do than it being a code requirement, IMO.
Common sense in my book, too. Of course, I never would have designed what's shown in the pic to begin with -- there's absolutely no point to that lower landing.
I thought I'd tell a short story about my experience with the local code enforcer...
Uppon completion of a small (100 sqft) addition to my home the inspector came for a visit. Just outside of a new five foot slider I had built a 5x4 deck. There was no railing or step.
The inspector looked at it and said "you know, if this is over 24" high you'll need a railing and steps". I looked at it and stupidly said "Hmmm, it must be close, let me go get my tape measure". The inspector, trying to give me every break said "no need, just make sure it''s less than 24". Sometimes I'm pretty dense.
The inspector, trying to give me every break said "no need, just make sure it''s less than 24". Sometimes I'm pretty dense.
LOL! Maybe you can give me that guy's number. I'd love to have him inspecting my projects! ;) I wish all the inspectors were that easy-going.
A friend of mine had a run-in with an inspector over an electrical issue. My friend was using metal boxes, and had a ground wire running to the metal box like you're supposed to do.
But the ground screw wasn't green. So the inspector made him change it out.
We always joke about how that inspector saved us from an electrical fire or some other fatal mishap. Up until that point, we dolts never realized that the green head on the screw was what made it conductive. ;)
According to my Codecheck (2004):
-Guardrails required for any walkoff >30" above floor or grade
-Guards required on open sides of stairs if total rise above floor to grade >30"
-Grippable handrail required if 4 or more risers
Granted, this Codecheck is probably outdated by now.
A few years ago, I checked the code in several NJ townships, and it seems the limit is the number of stairs. If you have 3 treads (including the deck itself), you need a rail.
Basically, that means that, if you have one step and the deck, you're OK. Anything over that needs a rail.
Three risers = required handrail.
Risers above 30" elevation require handrail with guardrail @ 42" tall.
Platform, stoop, deck or landing elevation greater than 18" requires a railing.
Platform, stoop, deck or landing elevation greater than 30"requires a guardrail @ 42"tall.
FWIW....on-site generalities.
.............Iron Helix
That's what I thought.....any idea on the original question? When does a step become a platform?
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
any idea on the original question? When does a step become a platform?
When the AHJ says so, is probably the 'best' answer, if not the most satisfying one.
We jsut got through with a quick little job for a "party platform." Getting that simple wooden "deck" through ADA and "amusement park" code was a pain. Not much fun to draw, either, not with "cannot pass 4" sphere" rules for railings either.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Consecutively stacked platforms are addessed as "awkward archtecture"....as they do not often "stride" very well. Plus the stacked arrangement of three rises define a set of stepping platforms and are required to have a continous handrail following the platform series of elevations. Makes for more $$$ for railing.
I think a design concept in metal of minimal visual mass would address your problem.
Or .....a rail with extreme artistic value as a scuplture or ......potted plant rack with handrail....or a serpentine snake railing with ornamental stel vines.!?!
Outwater.com for metal railing ideas and parts. JuliusBlum.com for commercial aspects of the same thing with $$$$.
Locally there are a couple of artisitically oriented blacksmiths that do some "WOW" types of stuff.
My opinion, coupled with some recent experiences!
...............Iron Helix
Consecutively stacked platforms are addessed as "awkward archtecture"....as they do not often "stride" very well.
You're dead-on with that assessment. A client of mine has a long run of such stacked platforms -- maybe about 8 or 10 in a line. It's absolutely terrible trying to walk them.
Edited 8/2/2007 11:51 pm ET by Ragnar17
That's how I had always understood it. 3 rises get a handrail.
Thanks.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
any idea on the original question? When does a step become a platform?
Sorry, I guess I misunderstood your original question.
Typically, a landing is defined as being at least as deep as the stairwell is wide. For example, a 36"-wide stairway would require a minimum landing size of 36" x 36".
So I'd say as long you sized it 36" x 36" or larger (and keeping it at least as deep as it is wide), you should be able to call it a "landing".
But whether you'll get around the handrail requirement (assuming there is one in the first place) is a separate issue.
I personally don't think that you'll need to put a handrail up since you're only talking about a 10" - 18" change in elevation. But of course, I'm not the inspector.
Let us know what you find out.
Hi JD,
In our area a deck 30" or less does not need a railing,
Steps with 3 risers or more do need railings ( kinda contradictory to the 30" deck)
And landings are a min. 36" so anything less would be considered a step.
Also a step has to be 4" min or greater in rise.
Every area is different just thought I'd give you our codes.
Howie