I knew we had a small leak over our mudroom, but all the rain in NE this past week showed a much bigger one. I went to the attic and it there was a good steady drip + wet sheathing + water running down a rafter. Probably 3 gallons in 20hrs.
This is all pretty near the electrical panel. Yikes!
So my quesiton is when is too late to reroof in the season? If I book now I can’t get someone to come until after Thanksgiving. Too late? I knew we needed a new roof but prior to this week I had thought we could tough it out until spring. Now I’m feelin pretty dumb, so no need to pile on.
What are the problems with a late fall early winter reroof in new england (besides snow)? How late do you roof?
Alternatively, what should I do ?
Replies
had a bad section of roof/flashing around the chimney last fall, covered it with ice shield for the winter till the whole roof/chimney was being replaced the next year ..
When I was younger high school/college, I remember we shingled a house on Thanksgiving. I don't see why you couldn't shingle a roof as long as it was dry and clear. I'm probably missing something here but I know my dad and I didn't have to go back and repair anything on that particular house.
in RI, we roof all winterMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
There's no problem with brittle shingles? How do you deal with the snow - like if a roof is off and a 1' of snow falls? Is there generally no damage?
I've put shingles on roofs in winter here in Michigan. In all sorts of temperatures, as low as the 20's. Yup, shingles get pretty brittle! I remember framing a house when the wind chill was -30 F. That was about as cold as I wanted to work in. Boss stopped to talk to the foreman while I worked on the second floor deck, no walls up yet. After that he asked if I minded going home an hour early; he said after stopping to talk he couldn't get the energy back to start working again. I didn't mind going home early that day.
As far as snow--you get out on the roof and shovel it off. Same with the floors. One day after I shoveled out about a 2500 square foot house, the boss says, "After this, shoveling a measly little driveway doesn't seem too bad, does it!" One day I slid down a roof to finish shoveling it and couldn't get back up, so I used the claw of my hammer sort of like a mountain climber's axe to get my first hand hold so I could make it up to a cleat. All part of a day's work.
Wana start a "My coldest day" thread?I'll be in the competition.
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I think just about anyone else besides me would win it, as -30 was about my coldest day and that was wind chill, not actual temperature which was higher. Thank goodness my boss's hands got cold more easily than mine, and when his hands got too cold we'd take a break around the fire, or warm up in his truck, or rarely (very rarely) quit for the day. When I worked alone with him we rarely took breaks (except to warm his hands) and sometimes missed lunch. When he had subs work with us they took their fifteen minute breaks in the morning and afternoon and I'd join them.
I remember shingles being very brittle at times--plastic window flanges too. Both sometimes shattered if you hit them too hard on the last blow on the nail. ('Course, you're supposed to set the nail with one blow and drive it home with a second. In cold weather and around windows I must confess I used what the experienced hands called "love taps," rather than risk breaking a window.)
I've called a few roofers that I was happy with and could afford but they aren't doing it in the winter. What are my other options? Can i just put some I&W over the leak (shingles and all) and leave it exposed for the winter or is there some other better alternative?I don't really want to go with a roofer I'd have passed over in the summer, just because he's available now.
Do you know exactly where the leak is? If I couldn't get a roofer any time soon, I'd buy a bundle or two of shingles from the local home center or building supplier & cover the leak. That would take care of the problem until you could get the whole roof done.
Edited 10/20/2005 11:18 am ET by Soultrain
The leak is a couple of feet below where the house and garage join (garage wraps around the corner of the house). I imagine its the flashing, though I suppose it could be something else. Are you proposing stripping part of the roof myself and relaying new shingles? Or shingling over what's already there. There's 3 layers on it now.
Edited 10/20/2005 11:23 am ET by BobS
I imagine if there are 3 layers already, you'd have to strip some off since 4 layers would be pretty heavy.
The more certain you are of the leak location the smaller the area you'd have to replace.
BobS,
Can it be done?---yes---of course.
SHOULD it be done????------most likely not. I would advise against it.
I am in Ohio-----In general I won't do a whole roof replacement anywhere between Thanksgiving and St. Patricks Day----give or take a week or so either direction.
I will do roof repairs, etc. all winter----but replacing an entire roof---bad idea.
It CAN be done----but you are not likely to get the best quality work. some of the damage that is done may not show up for 10-20 years( stress cracked shingles,faulty ice gaurd adhesion etc.)
Not to scold you------but as a contractor----- why should I have to climb around on a snow covered roof in December or January----'cause you didn't plan ahead properly?????? I don't really need the money----and i am not interested in putting on a product that I KNOW will not meet my standards.
Saturday morning I have an appointment to meet with a prospective customer who needs a roof and 6 skylights replaced. This prospect is a strong referall from someone I roofed a new, large, church for. I am pretty much booked for 4 weeks ------so prospective customer will have to wait untill spring.
BTW---I try to avoid installs in July and august as well LOL.
these are just my arbitrary " lines in the sand"
I want to produce my best work for the highest price possible----and that means exercising restraint.
Very best wishes to you.
Stephen Hazlett
Hazlett Roofing & Renovation Ltd.
So what would you recommend I do to get through the winter?
Hard to say without seeing it in person.
diagnosing roof leaks over the internet is problematic----and generally ends with somebody calling me an idiot LOL.
But the contractor you REALLY want to do the job----the highly recommended local guy whose quality you trust implicitly-------- sign a contract for him to do it in the spring---and ask HIM for suggestions in person to get through the winter.
If he wants to do your job in the spring---he will have an idea for you NOW----I certainly would ( but I wouldn't warranty a temp repair)
Very best wishes to you,
Stephen
Stephen (good to see you back, by the way)-
You're in northern OH, and I'm in central KY. I've comfortably worn shorts in the morning and had the Carhardts out by 3PM in February. We pretty much have to work the good days and stay home on the bad days. My business is probably different from yours in the fact that I mostly subcontract. If the addition is ready, we gotta roof it. I've done this for 20 years and can't say I've had more than one or two problems related to working in the cold. Most of them were actually built in gutter liner problems. You gotta lay copper loose in the winter and tight in the summer. Never had any asphalt shingle problems resulting from cold weather installation. You just gotta prepare.
It's great that you can just do repairs in the winter. I can't keep my customer base and operate that way.
If this poster can't get a roofer he's comfortable with to work in the winter, then his market is different from mine. Hopefully, he can find someone like you to stop the leak 'til spring and the birds are chirpin'.
I've temporarily backed off on buying in the OBX. May get more inthusiastic next spring when the birds are chirpin'.Birth, school, work, death.....................
Finally got in touch with my chosen guy. He was answering calls for a bunch of leaks - too much rain here this past week. Anyway, we've got a good deal set up now. He's gonna patch it next week (and charge me for it) and do the whole roof in spring at which point he will deduct the patch cost. Good deal, and I get the guy I want. The offer further boosts my opinion of him.Plus I get to see his work before he does the whole roof which is huge.Every roof on my street needs doing so I'll more than make it up to him if his job is good.Thanks to everyone for the help. Guess I got kinda lucky here afterall.
Sounds like you got the right guy. Good Luck
Birth, school, work, death.....................
CU,
in '03 it snowed on oct. 2 while I was roofing a house for some friends.
the following year---within a week of the one year anniversary of that roof----I was doing a 12 month checkup on it---and it snowed again( just the lightest flurries both times)
Haven't seen snow yet this year
this tues. and weds. we did what may be the last full roof of this year. It was warm enough to scuff the shingles if we weren't carefull.
thursday morning I was looking at a small repair project----hard frost on the roofs---shingles of the repair roof were brittle as glass.
Virtually every roof I do is replacing the roof on a completely finished and occupied home-----so I am much more conservative than I would be if working new construction.
when i was younger----and REEEEEallly needed the money I would roof in the winter. One winter the first roof I did was January 2 and 3rd---had to sweep snow etc.--dumb,dumb,dumb. difficult to do your best work then.
about 10 years ago I had a large roof to do---it was a credit union building. i was happy to do it and started late november early december. should have taken a week to do it. It snowed 2 days later and it took untill the end of january to complete the roof. ruined my holidays with that roof hanging over my head.
BTW--- the roof looked fine when i finished it----but it looks pretty bad now------so never again. most of my customers come from a 12 block radius and I live right in the middle of my customer base-------- my jobs have to look good---and they have to LAST.
there are MANY days in december, january, february when I COULD roof just fine----but it's just not worth it to gather the guys to gether for 6 hours of work---when you might not be able to finish the project for another 3 weeks------. I would rather back log the projects and hit the ground running full speed in late march.
A few months ago I had the realtor who we rent from down on the obx send me up the for sale listings on the island I like---OUCHHHHH !---LOL
MY dad passed up a chance to buy onto that island about '78-79 for under $100K. If only we could time travel , ehh?
stephen
i get it... insider lingo...
i bet OBX is "Outerbanx"....
you guys with your name droppingMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
It would suit me fine to bang it out for 9 months a year and take off for 3 (not really take off, but you know what I mean). You've got a niche (and it sounds like a pretty good one to me) and I've got a different one. I've just never had an asphalt shingle roof fail because of the time of year it was installed, but I take precautions based on the likely conditions. Sometimes they're necessary, sometimes not.
I got an email from a realtor today. Some second row property we had looked at is suddenly front row after this last hurricane. Only thing is, as fast as the beach is erroding, how long will it be 'til somebody on the previous 3rd row is waiting for my house to quit blocking his view?Birth, school, work, death.....................
Buy soundfront----it will be ocean front by the time you retire. LOL
Actually----" my "---Island doesn't really have any ocean front homes-----the village is all technically soundfront, I believe---with very few built on the water. Village been there a couple hundred years----periodically goes underwater during storm surge---but always re-surfaces.
I still have my last house up here to sell----and 2 sons to push through college yet before I can swing a house doen there.
Stephen
Yeah, I've been to Ocracoke. I think I could appreciate it better if I was staying there rather than a day trip. We spent the day waiting in line and looking for parking.Birth, school, work, death.....................
park at the ferry/long term parking by the old coastgaurd station and walk.( We used to camp exactly where that parking is now)
We just ride bikes everywhere---except to the beach. It's very bike and pedestrian friendly.
Stephen
BTW----riding my bike down to docks at 5or 6 am is absolutely my favorite thing in the world----If only i could start EVERY day that way.
Edited 10/22/2005 8:04 am ET by Hazlett
I believe the roofers work all winter here in Minnesota as well. A good roofing company should be able to strip the shingles and get the roof watertight again before they go home for the day (at least for a given area - for instance, they'll do one side of the roof one day and the other the next.) It may not be 100% shingled, but at least they'll get the tar paper and ice shield down. I suppose that depends somewhat on if they find extensive water damage to the roof deck after the old shingles are off.
We may need to resheath/oversheath so that's an added concern. I think they'd need to take the whole thing off first and then decide whether or not they need to oversheath.
No leaks (yet), but I'm thinking of having a new roof installed on my Northern NJ home sometime soon. A neighbor who used to be a roofer said that a ripNstrip is necessary because my 1950's 1x6 roof sheathing is too brittle to take another set of shingles (once the old shingles and nails are stripped off).
Well, he's right that the 1x6 does have a lot of knots missing and has dried out/shrank an awful lot (seam gaps pretty much everywhere), but then I saw your post about 'oversheathing'.
I'd appreciate more info on this technique, like when you can and when you can't, what the dis/advantages are to a complete ripNstrip, etc.
The roof rafters are 2x8s, 5 pitch, 16 OC and 2ft overhang/soffit, so I dunno if the extra weight is a big consideration. The attic is floored and has a nice knee wall/decent head room, so that I have alot of stuff stored up there (including the A/C handler and miles of duct work). If I could avoid stripping off the 1x6 and have it oversheathed, then that avoids moving all that stuff and protecting the A/C handler, etc....Looks good from my house....
risky..
"oversheathing" is probably referring to stripping the old roofing off and installing 3/8 ply right on top of the old sheathing..
this is USUALLY NOT neccessary .. your 1x6 is no more brittle than 90% of the roofs in existence, and occasional missing knots can be covered with a metal flashing to span the hole
IF your sheathing is in really bad shape, then the 3/8 overlay is a good solution..
usually we oversheath if the existing roof is skip-sheathed
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I asked a question about this last month when I got one of my roofing quotes from a guy who wanted to oversheath. Our roofs sound pretty similar. Look at :
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=63044.1for the discussion.
Thanks very much for all of that - esp. Bob for the link to the archives. It took me an hour to digest all of that - great info! Thanks again! I'm sure that the finished job will...Looks good from my house....
it is pretty common to over sheathe by nailing 3/8" plywood or 7/16" OSB right over the existing decking. it eliminates the gaps and provides a better nailing surface. not always needed, buit I never tear off an older roof without a stack of sheathing at the ready.
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We roof all year long in KY. If it gets down to below zero and snow is blowing we stay home. I've taken a crew out in 5 degree weather when there's no wind and the sun is shining and we'll be down to shirt sleeves as long as we stay close to the roof.
Winter roofing takes a little extra care and planning, but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get a roof done in winter.
There's only about two good roofing days a year. Today was one of them. It's usually too hot, too cold, too wet, too slick, too snowy, too something.
I knew we had a small leak over our mudroom,
How long have you known this? I bet I've had 50 calls this month with people telling me the same thing and wanting to know if I can get to them "before the snow flies". My reply is "if the snow doesn't fly 'til next June or July".
Birth, school, work, death.....................
>How long have you known this?Maybe a month or so. I tried to patch it myself with some of the tar-in-a-can stuff. It took a bit of time to find out it didn't work. I couldn't have done anything to make it worse - I think its just a lot of rain. I thought shingles had some sort of built-in adhesive so they all stick down to each other once they warm up. How does that work without it getting hot for 5 months?
I thought shingles had some sort of built-in adhesive so they all stick down to each other once they warm up. How does that work without it getting hot for 5 months?
If the sun shines on them for several hours, they'll warm enough to stick together. Birth, school, work, death.....................
thought shingles had some sort of built-in adhesive so they all stick down to each other once they warm up. How does that work without it getting hot for 5 months?
You'd ne amazed at how hot shingles can get even in winter when the sun hits them--especially on the black tarpaper. They will seal, but it has to get sunny.
There's only about two good roofing days a year. Today was one of them. It's usually too hot, too cold, too wet, too slick, too snowy, too something.
That statement is so true, it hurts. ;)
I thought there was only one a year. Seems like all the customers think everyday is good though. Had a call thursday wanting to know if I could do a tear off and reshingle by monday. It was 40 square. Told them the hellofahigh price and they passed.
Here in southern IL we roof all winter too.An inch to short. That's the story of my life !
bstcrpntr --- I hope to grow into this name.
"Birth, school, work, death....................."
The Godfathers right? Got the album, got the button...............
;-)
"I've seen that film with Michael Caine..."Birth, school, work, death.....................
There's only about two good roofing days a year
LoL!
'Cept, I learned that they were "the last one and the next one . . . "Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I'm in MA as well. As the others have said, you can do roofing work pretty much year round.
I've had a roof put on about 7 years ago in late Jan, Boston area. The roofers kept going in my basement to warm up the tar caulking tubes on the furnace. They knew their stuff, no problem whatsover.
I've seen guys who could ruin shingles at sixty degrees. I have hand naioled at fourteen below zero without hurting the materials. It is slower and takes some finess, but can be done.
The seal down strip willl still do the job in the spring unless we havea dust storm before that. The anoly time I ever saw a real failure of that is in West texas when we laid the roof around thanksgiving and then got a bad dust strorm the next week, injecting dust under the tabs before it had sealed. Come March, high winds took a few shingle soff and it was plain to see why.
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>The seal down strip willl still do the job in the spring unless we havea dust storm before that.Does the same go for the I&W shield? Or is that sticky in any temp?
I&W will always stick! it might be less tacky at really cold temps, but not to worry about
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While it can be done, this is the time of year when roofers get real busy with repairs. We're having our first big rain of the season today, roofers' phones must be going crazy right now.
If it were mine, I'd get a quick temporary fix to get thru the winter, and book the full re-roof for next spring or early summer. If you really need to get into sheathing, rafters, etc. you'll be much better off doing it when the first good weather comes again.
-- J.S.
>If it were mine, I'd get a quick temporary fix to get thru the winter, and book the full re-roof for next spring or early summer. If you really need to get into sheathing, rafters, etc. you'll be much better off doing it when the first good weather comes again.
I'd rather just patch until spring, to be honest, for all those reasons. Can I just cover the affected area (shingles and all) with I&W shield until spring?The affected area is near where the 1 story garage meets the 2 story house, so I imagine its a flashing situation.
bob.. you already tried the lexonite.. what makes you think the ice & water is going to do anything for you ?
here's Barry during a 36 deg. thawMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That's a tough lookin dude. I figure I (or a roofer) could spread the I&W out better than I can spread the lexonite out from a ladder. Maybe cover a bigger area. Maybe it won't help, just a thought. Not real fond of being on the roof. DW is even less fond of me being on it.
Mike, What kind of shinfgle is that Barry is laying with four tabs instead of threaa? And is it a meteric or english sizing?
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that's a Certainteed Hatteras.. an 18" shingle.. the tabs measure 9"w x 8" exposure
great shingle.. nice lookMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks. I have one coming up and think that is the right shingle for the style of house
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Which direction does this piece of roof face?
If it's a Southerly exposure than there should be no problem into the Winter months.If it's a Northerly pitch than you might have to pick and choose days that would be workable due to temp. and wind.
Like someone else suggested-get your chosen roofer to offer a temp. fix if he doesn't feel comfortable proceeding this Fall.
Put a roof on your house now. Your asking for real trouble waiting for winter. You've got over a month of perfect shingling weather. I've roofed all winter in Michigan, no problem, don't be a wussy.
I'm not roofing it myself. I'm at the mercy of the roofers in my area and their schedule which is at about 5 weeks now for anyone marginally competent (a rare few around here, for some reason). So it'd be late november at best before they could get going.Your statements are contradictory - I'm asking for trouble if I wait, but you roof all winter? Or is the trouble you refer to just from the leak not the actual roofing in the winter?But it sounds almost unanimous to roof now instead of wait. I'd just like to have a bit more cash saved up for the job in case of problems, so spring would be a lot better. But I guess sometimes you don't get to choose.
I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. You're gambling with the leak all winter.
Around here (South Jersey), the roofers offer price breaks to roof in the winter, so I know they go all year around.
the roofers offer price breaks to roof in the winter,
What kind of backwards thinking is that? Charge less when it costs more? I don't get it.Birth, school, work, death.....................
WRT roofers charging less in the winter...
SWAG as to reason? Less demand, much less. Not the time when most folks would think of having their roof redone, unless they absolutely need it (because of a bad leak e.g.) most folks would "wait till next spring".
The guy I probably will go with quoted the price to me in August, so I don't think he'll drop it. But that's real interesting and sort of makes sense.
I think it's more like charge less when business is slow. The guy I'm thinking of is swamped with work all spring summer & especially fall (people want to get their roof done before the winter comes) so come fall he usually offers a price break to anyone who will postpone their work until December-February.
Along about October, when folks could see white stuff starting high on the mtn peaks, my phone always started ringing off the hook. That is when my prices went up.One builder called wanting a roof on in December - a guy I had never done work for before. he had already hear my going rate. I told him the only way I'd consider taking on the job is if he was willing to pay extra for any time incurred to shiovel snow off the roof. He agreeed.
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I think the exact answer to your question is...when the basement is full of water and everything is saturated and rotten,the house is ready to cave in and it is black and green from mould.....then its too late...or you can roof all year round at any time except when its raining...
...dont put off today what you can put off tomorrow....it will allow you more time to ponder..
It's probably too late for this place..
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Yeah, bulldoze that sucker and put up a nice church with aluminum siding!