Replies

1. 
   David_Dansky | Mar 09, 2002 07:23am | #1

   *
   Yes its very common, they know you will not have any more work for them in the future(for the most part)
   You can try to hold back a small Percentage, but most subs are not going to go for that.
   Use quality people, and get referal from contractor friends.

   Good Luck

   David

1. 
   carl_sperry | Mar 09, 2002 08:54am | #2

   *You would be well within your rights to hold a 10 percent retention on completed work for up to 30 days for just such occassions. Once you pay someone they can perceive that a satisfactory completion. Then your only recourse is court. I would have that phrase in any future contracts that you enter into.

1. 
   calvin_ | Mar 09, 2002 02:43pm | #3

   *carl, do you think they would bump the bid another 10 to compensate for that?

1. 
   Jim_Walters | Mar 09, 2002 03:20pm | #4

   *I always payed my subs upon completion.....always used the same guys if possible. Earned and gave respect.....rarely had a problem. Holding back money from a stranger is sometimes a smart thing to do, especially in areas outside your expertise (I always did my own inspection before handing out checks) but let him know up front/the reason why/once he's proven himself he can join the paid-on-completion-in full group. The trick is to have guys (subs) who are so faithfull that you can give their phone number to the homeowner and when a problem arises they can contact the sub directly and leave you out of the loop.

1. 
   xMike_Smith | Mar 09, 2002 04:30pm | #5

   *i'm with jim... i pay my subs whenever and however they want to be paid...some want some front money.. some will bill me... the deal is i can either trust them... or not.. the ones i can't .. i don't hire again...if it's someone i haven't worked with before, i try to make sure we are both on the same page.. and we both know the payment schedule up front...some subs are great at delivering the product.. but lousy on the supporting paperwork...i always try to work with them so we both get what we need

2. 
   S._Lykos | Mar 09, 2002 07:06pm | #6

   *"Holding back money from a stranger is sometimes a smart thing to do, especially in areas outside your expertise..........."Jim is right in his above comment. We know what to look for. You don't, initially, and as said, we will hire them again whereas you will not. Either pay and keep 10% or do a thorough inspection prior to paying in full. I think the latter is best.

3. 
   Stephen_Hazlett | Mar 10, 2002 12:04am | #7

   *I gotta laugh at this thread.Retainage might be customary in some areas of commercial work-----but I would have to tell any prospective customer who approached me with this idea to "pound sand"Anybody I have ever subbed to got paid 100% in full"on the last shovel"

4. 
   Tim_Mooney | Mar 10, 2002 01:30am | #8

   *Well, we are back to this homeowner problem. Contractors dont have this problem very much because the subs would be starving,as every contractor I know talks about subs. Word travels very fast and contrators are usually friends. So figgure. You on the other hand will continue to have problems.You wont get the best prices or service. Afterall, you arent contributing much to their food chain. But you will probably pay top price.These guys talking above could starve a sub out, if he wasnt above board.

5. 
   Mercer | Mar 10, 2002 01:57am | #9

   *In commercial construction some companies can make you wait up to 90 days to get paid. Most usually pay within 30 days.

6. 
   Schelling_McKinley | Mar 10, 2002 06:58am | #10

   *Tim- Maybe we could starve a sub out but then we could never use him again. Our subs will come back to fix a problem but if they think that the problem was not their fault (often the result of incomplete communication) we will pay them more with no questions asked. A homeowner self-contractor should keep that in mind.

7. 
   RayT | Mar 10, 2002 11:25pm | #11

   *You know, rmanbike, holding back money (just in case we find something later) arbitrarily and without an up front agreement that states that is how the homeowner/GC wants to handle payments is unethical and possibly illegal. This kind of stuff is exactly the reason you should have hired a real GC in the first place. They are familiar with the good subs and will usually get better performance from those subs than you ever will. You didn't spell out what kind of things you were unhappy with, but don't be too quick to blame everything on the subs. Maybe you didn't have the framing right, or you brought in the wrong sub first and the next guy had to work around something that he shouldn't have. Maybe you should have been around more and could have caught the problem before it became a problem. All subs appreciate a GC who will communicate and is around to answer the millions of questions that come up while he's working. An experienced GC can eliminate a lot of problems because he has done this job lots and lots of times before and can anticipate and avoid problems by communicating and scheduling subs in a natural order, not expecting a sub to do work that a different trade was supposed to handle, and so forth. A homeowner/GC does not have the experience to anticipate these potential problems and has to run around solving hundreds of little crisis' throughout the duration of the job. Sure, they save a little money, but they usually come out the experience with a sour attitude, complaining about how terrible it is to work with construction people. And how you had to threaten to withold their money just to get them to do their job.Rmanbike, maybe you don't fall into that catagory and you do have a legitimate gripe, and if so.....good for you. But that is why most subs cringe when asked to work for homeowner/GC's, and some just refuse to do it. It's just not worth the hassle.

8. 
   Tim_Mooney | Mar 13, 2002 04:47am | #12

   *The last three posts were really talking about the same thing. Same answer. Thats what GCs do!!!! Thats why we need them to act as glue on a job to hold it all together. H..l they dont even need to be carpenters to be good ones. MEDIATORSthere is also a need for lawyers and painters too.........really !!!!!!!!!