Thoughts ;
Im trying to begin another chapter as Mike Smith puts it …………………….
Ive been reading a thread about a guys job being obsolete after 20 years. …………
Ive done quite a few different things and Im wondering if I should add another one ………
I remember the movie store thing and VCRs and how much of a boom there actually was because a friend of mine got nearly rich by putting in one of the first stores.
Some say they have done pretty well on biz from working for money clients , but all dont have the area.
Sonny says it doesnt matter where the area and has written much on the subject from a handiman approach.
I know that a lot of areas are suffering right now and lots of businesses are not up to speed. Hence the neglect of people investing in the stock market.
Someone said the other day , once you hear about success , its being phased out .
I think dish networks should be doing well as Im seeing plenty in town where they are competing with cable.
So , what are your thoughts out there ???????? Houses that fall from the sky er whats next in booming types of business???????????
Tim Mooney
Edited 2/22/2005 9:45 am ET by TIMMOONEY52
Replies
I wish I knew.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
We are both looking for transition .
I dont want to start a framing or drywall thread , but you made some comments that stayed with me. One was the fact that you didnt want to pay your help less so you could profit or somthing like that . I wrote somewhere I was forced to hire labor because I couldnt hire qualified help. I ended up being a teacher instead of working , but it ended up more profitable once I figgured out a system. It was a challenge and fun for a while. I know that you could do the same thing . I know thats not what we want. I look a busineses that the owner isnt there and thats what Im looking for really. You walk into a McDonalds and the owner isnt there and hes liable to have several stores. I know we can make money while we are at work, but I want to make money while Im not and not have to be there. Like the farmer says , " ya gotta make money while yer sleepin".
Tim Mooney
Tim, you are correct. I could do that (be the teacher and make a ton of money), in fact, that's what I did for the first 10 years of my career. I know I could still do that and make anywhere from 2 to 5 k per week, depending on how much pain I want to absorb. I can make that happen, but Frank can't...he's been trained in a different way and he doesn't understand what it takes. In essence, I'm the only one that I could hire to keep the system going.
It ain't going to happen. I've been goofing off for at least 20 years now and I want to continue goofing off till I pass on.
To accomplish that, I also have to re-create a means of passive income...it aint going to be carpentry contracting. My first instincts were to use real estate as the vehichle, but I quickly learned and understood that the most common method is too time-consuming for my tastes. So, I've been investigating different avenues, basically every avenue and have found a system, in real estate, that I would be willing to wrap my arms around...and I'm not totally committed to that at this point either. I'm in the process of finalizing my decision which may involve an entirely different type of business, one of which isn't really a topic suitable in this forum.
The main point is that we all have choices. I've jumped head over heels into some good and bad ventures, but I'm now in a much different stage of my life and I'm finally doing enough research to do something the right way. Doing it the right way is critical to protecting the progress that I've already made. For instance, there isn't any way in he** that I'd ever purchase another piece of property in anything other than a land trust. I wish I'd have been smarter before, but it's okay, I've been lucky....I haven't been sued from tenants and I haven't died. Tomorrow is another day though....
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
The rental market is a good business but it takes lots of time for it to develope. Like years unless there is a huge amount of money earned at something else used to invest in it and frankly if that huge amount of money was being made why not continue that ? With the exception that rentals are the easiest way to keep money and allow it to grow with out being busted by the economy. With the exception that a certain town or city goes bust broke such as happend to OK and Tex when the oil played out or they elected to stop pumping.
There are several states that have their own set of problems , but as you once said and Ive tried to do in the rentals , make lemonade out of lemons and take advantage of bad situations. For every minus there seems to be a plus somewhere.
Land here was once upon a time very cheap considering other market areas but no use for it to make money. It was hard at that time just to hold on to bare land. When the oil crunch happened it brought heavy gas exploration to Arkansas. That business is booming here. If a man could have bought property with mineral rights and resold and kept the rights , that move could have made a whole family wealthy . I know of one family that is and thats how it happend. Pine timber for a while escalated in price . When that "began" to happen land with timber could be bought excluding the knowledge of the price of raw timber. Prices at the time only reflected the normal conditions. The first people who started searching for land with existing timber to re-sell it got wealthy.
A food processing plant offered a man a paid contract to haul its cooking garbage to the dump. He collected that money and bought his trucks and tank beds, plus used it as operating expenses. With that contract , he laid it on a bankers desk and borrowed money for a 700 acre ranch that went broke on cattle and stocked it with another loan on pigs . 4,000 pigs to be exact. They ate the garbage food and years later the ceo read his sunday morning paper to find his garbage mans picture on the front business page. He was the leading hog producer in the state and that was before the big boys came such as cargill. He had done the same thing to two other plants. At that time he was running 12,000 head . In that amount was a sow operation he put together to save buying feeders. There was a river port that had opened hauling in corn from the northern states on the Arkansas river . Him and Tyson foods were the first buyers. He not only had the sow operation off that but also built a feed lot to feed out hogs and cattle. The cattle lot made money and he went strictly to that as beef prices sky rocketed . He took advantage of every negative.
Tim Mooney
I have a friend who purchased a trailer park with expansion possibilities.
Lets see; 150 lots, $250.00 a month per............
Laundramats??
You have to wash your clothes!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
A mistake that I regret is selling a small trailer park I had.
I owned one trailer and had 5 spaces rented out. Allowed two spaces for one because I thought the spaces were too crowded when I bought it. Still made good money and no real upkeep except on the one trailer I had rented out.
Guy came along and offered me more than I thought it was worth and I sold it.
Too bad for me."There is no such thing as ex-wives"
I hope you got a bundle for it cause theres no telling what it would have paid you back.
Tim Mooney
It was small, but since I only owned one trailer and was getting ready to sell that one it was very little maintance for me.
All gravy. Just collect space rent and keep the drive ways maintained. I did pay the water bill but it never go that high.
Nah, looking back......wish I'd kept it.
"There is no such thing as ex-wives"
Eric, a trailer park is leading my thoughts right now , and theres problems also.
Heres my way of looking at a trailer park;
The investment value decreases in mobile homes and if not done right the whole park can be of decreasing value. Banks here have all but quit financing them. They dont even want them as the land as collateral. I can work around that by not buying expensive trailers, but then risking having a low end park. The only way a low end park would work to my satisfaction is it being a HUD rented park. The quarenteed leases from hud sets up a finacial statement and a means of borrowing money. There has to be numbers on paper that actually work because its a business . If I put that in , I could kiss renting spaces goodbye. That method however quarentees repayment of a loan.
Most mobile home companies have went out of business becuse of lending . I understand the big mortgage comany is out of business. That put the load on banks and they dont want it . What loans are available in long term are a higher interrest rate. The bottomn line is that people here arent buying mobile homes to want to rent spaces. In my local , Ive eliminated renting spaces to nice trailers because its being fased out.
It makes HUD no difference whether its a mobile home or a house as long as they pass inspection, which is easy enough for me.
So the bottom line is that it needs to be trailer rentals on the park. Rent the whole park to HUD. This is a much higher return than houses but also a disposable investment in the trailers as after a while you give them away and bring in newer ones. You cant invest in remodleling , only repairs and some light up keep. I can buy a pretty nice trialer for around 8,000. That trailer will rent for 350 to 400 showing a remarkable return. Figguring the trailer and the site would have a guess estimate of 15,000 per site for unit , land & utilities , plus roads and pads. 15,000 at a realistic 10 year pay out comes to 170.32 per month at 6.5 percent which is my investor rate right now. That leaves roughly 179.00 per month less taxes and insurance and maintenence. That looks like 100.00 per month profit per unit times the number of units for a grand total. Thats if the project stays at that budget. My guess would be 25 trailers . Thats 30,000 per year which is the median income here. Theres also a part time job figgured into it also. I do know I would not do it for less than 100 per unit clear profit.
That plan would pay for a trailer park also in 10 years . Then we would be talking about 105,000 per year, less inservices.
I estimate 8 to 16 hrs per week after its in good running shape.
Tim Mooney
Dam Tim,
Can I come and live in your head for a while??
I don't have a lot of details what this guy is up to.
He bought over a 100 acres with this park on it, I think about 70 units or so.
Real trailer trash a loy of them, some good folks, retirees and w/enders.
He's been tossin out the trash, and has caused a bit of a stir in doing so. Apparently these things are not moveable after a certain # of years. He's paid a few tenants a grand or so for the trailer, then comes over with the backhoe and smashes the crap out of it while onlookers gaze in astonishment.
He's getting rid of the riff raff. 2 cars no more. Guest parking in the guest lot only. No atv's or snomobiles in use, and stored in his facility only. No junk or unregistered cars.
Once one moves out, he pours a new pad and upgrades the hook up. He's got some kinda deal going with a local co. for the trailers, but he is basically out of that part of it. He rents the pad and thats it.
He's nearly done after 2 years + of wrangling with all the gov. agencies to nearly double the size of the park. Eviromental surveys galore, and LOTS of town meeting.
But the place will turn into a NICE park, not some dump with a bunch of unemployed hicks who are always behind in the rent.
He's gonna end up with over 150 sites x 250 per month.
Mow the grass, plow the roads. Not a whole lot else to do besides go to the bank with the checks. Everyone thought he was nuts. 'Cept everything this guys touches turns to gold.
He's almost done with the laundermat in town.
There must be a rainbow following this guy.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
I think you can do good with a trailer park......if you don't own the trailers.
I don't care what anybody says........trailers are just easier to trash out than anything else and more trouble to work on.
"There is no such thing as ex-wives"
He was lucky to find one already producing. Thats a lot better than building a park from scratch. One of the main problems with building a new park on borrowed money is that theres no income till you put it all together. Id love to have a skanky park that big and of course cheap. As long as it will make payments and some above , you can buit it up.
Tim Mooney
Here's what my crystal ball shows: By 2040, we'll have about 700 million people living in the U.S. of A, which now includes the annexed territories of what were formerly Mexico and Canada. One fourth of citizens are elderly and the rest are younger, brown-skinned people who sometimes speak English. Wages (in terms of purchasing power) are lower in 2050 than now because of competition from China and India. Health care, airlines, schools, and low-income housing are all run by the federal government. There is a 25% national sales tax to fund all this joy. Real estate lost its investment appeal after the big collapse of market values in '06, and in the decades that followed, foreign wars and an abortive revolution in the western states kept values low. Property taxes became so high that many owners were pushed into tax forclosure sales. Cities gobbled up these properties and now use them to house government workers as part of their pay and benefits package. Sad to say, but if I were under 30 and looking for business opportunities in a growing economy, I'd probably plan to emigrate.
Eric, I worked with a guy about five years ago who was doing the same thing. He owned two trailer parks, and he did just like your friend. He was got rid of the less desirables, planted lots of nice flowers and trees, made them into nice trailer parks. He told me if he could find one more to buy, he and his wife could both quit their jobs.
Allen in Santa Cruz
Here's an idea. A few years ago I was living in Nevada and working with a guy who told this story:He lived in the Bay Area at the time, and bought two lots, with plans to build houses on them and sell them. So he built the first house, and sold it. By the time he finished the first house, the development he was in had sold all the lots in Phase 1, and were starting on Phase 2. Lots had gone up, with all the houses being built, and a neighborhood developing. Someone offered to buy the second lot from him, at a price that would give him more profit than he made selling the lot and the house he built! So that started me to thinking. When a big development is starting up, they have lots for sale cheaper than they will ever be again. If you went in and bought a choice lot, or some, and did nothing to it until all the other lots were sold and houses were built, you're sure to make some money on it when you do sell. And if there's a lot of building going on in your area, buying and selling lots might be as profitable as building and selling houses.
Allen in Santa Cruz
Buying lots in new subdivisions.
Did that at the start and still do a little of it . Yes it works. Buy the choice lots in the division when its being built . They need the money. You will make money at least within a year . I bought 5 choice lots on the water with one that has boat access. I doubled my money on the access lot. There was only one ! Of course to be in the business would take a large outlay of money.
Tim Mooney
Moon, buying those vacant lots is called speculating. Inherently, there is nothing wrong with speculating, you can make some very huge gains. It's probably not the right style of real estate investment for the beginner though.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
You guys and your trailer parks...
You need to rent "The trailer park boys Movie". There's a series up here on showcase, not in the US, too caustic for american ears. The big screen version is coming out next fall so keep your ears open.
It's funny enough to make it hip to live in a trailer park.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
I dunno. I think you need to look at the big picture. Of course, in this forum, much tends to revolve around real estate. But of course, it's the kinda of real estate that always makes the difference.Departing briefly, while it's true that people will always need to have shelter, eat and drive, etc. Real money (and conseq profit) isn't really ever made on those basic neccessities unless its done on a large scale (ie walmart). Moreover, borrowing from walmart, there's always someone out there who will price that necessity at a cheaper price, and BOOM there goes your profit and shortly after your business.Rather, real profit is always in the elective sector. For example, cable TV, concert tickets, braces for your teeth, fancy French food. No one, not even the govt, is going to mandate you get those, so the market follows the market and these elective things get priced accordingly. It's kinda schizophrenic, I'm admit, but some folks have no problem with $200 rose bowl tickets, but go nuts if a classroom textbook costs over $50.In the end, I would avoid pizza places, storage centers and the like. Instead, look at RVs, the growth of Las Vegas, South Carolina's Myrtle Beach, Sun City developments, and even Whole Foods Grocery stores. All of these have in common the emergence of the Baby Boomers reaching their 60s. They're the richest generation America has ever had monetarily and they're buying 2nd homes like crazy. Also, with their granola, holistic bent from the 60s, they've created this Whole Foods phenom, caused Wendy's and McD to start offering better (more nutritous) side choices.The baby boomers aging? Not gracefully either: look at botox, plastic surgery, hyped up SUVs. Remember, all elective, discretionary income.Alright, off the soapbox now, but you get the idea.
yer not walking around with no shirt and too tight pants are ya?
it's on the dish ... comedy central, I think.
maybe bbc america ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
I dont discount your idea of remodeling . Only getting it done.
You go buy a car and pay for it . Then you have it worked on. Isnt there a large difference in worth? If you had to have much worked on, the car wouldnt be worth anything!.
My point being is that remodeling should sell a lot higher than a new house plus parts. <G> Wheres our 40 percent markup? <G>
Tim Mooney
Naah, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to have a haircut like ricky? (G)
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Last year land prices around Queenstown were going totally insane.
Folks who had bought a section on Monday were selling on Friday for 70k more. Fantastic stuff................... until those who bought huge at the wrong end of the boom realised they were sitting on a fortune in property. Only if they could afford to hold it for 5 to 7 years.
Its all in the timing. When Joe Average is making noises about getting 'in', the smart money has already left.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
blue.... 'member that " lease a lawyer" thing you were doing ..
and i told you we had a guy and his wife here were doing the same thing..
well... they cashed out and moved to Vermont...
last week he dropped dead on his snowmobile...... as they say in Rhode Island.." he took a hot"
point being.... get on with it
51... Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, I'm still affiliated with "that lawyer thing". I'll never let it lapse.
I am getting on with "it", whatever "it" is.
IF I drop dead tomorrow, I'll be okay with what I've done so far.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
As far as the 'new, coming thing' I don't know. But I would think a person could do well with any of these:
Stroage buildings
Coffee shops
pizza joints
Used auto parts yards
Wrecker service and storage facility
"There is no such thing as ex-wives"
Looking for a fast moving horse to jump onto?
The candle that burns twice as bright...
Any business that has solid client base, is well run and organised where the owner loves what they do will always thrive.
Business is not about how much you can gross in a week, at what cost, durability and viability long term are all factors that will denote success or failure. Market trends-keep your eyes open and do some deductive thinking to see the trends.
There is no perfect get rich quick scheme... a scheme is a scheme is a scheme. There are always downsides and if it looks too easy you aren't seeing the whole picture.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Stroage buildings
Coffee shops
pizza joints
Used auto parts yards
Wrecker service and storage facility
Ok Cat . Would you mind listing your reasons?
I could have bought a small lumber yard not making it . I knew a storage building business would have "made it" using the lumber yard which is what my father did in the 60s with FHA houseing. He opened additions building cheap houseing at a volume while owning a lumber yard. That was the time when the big box was known as what large appliances come in.
Tim Mooney
my Dad's a pretty smart guy ...
he told me when I was about 8 years old ...
Remodeling is a recession proof business.
Times of good ... people spend money dressing up and adding on. Either to stay or sell and move up.
Times of bad ... people spend money keeping their house habitable.
Plus ... for high end remodeling ... rich people always have money to dress the place up ... recession or no.
He grew up thru the depression ... he's seen a bit of life since then ...
so far ... he's been a pretty smart guy.
Recession's a coming .... about 10 yrs away.
I hope to be either set as the go-to fancy high end guy ... or prepared to go back to low end/maintenence stuff.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Jeff , my problem with remodeling is that its so hard to train people in that many trades. I was never successful hiring multi-talented folks and trusting them to work alone . For one thing lets just say they arent for hire at wages I could at least double if not thriple. For another thing it takes loads of tools to put in trust of others. Im not going to do it my self . I want a business I can run disabled or out of town. I want the business to run it self in the end with out me .
Tim Mooney
Tim,
I have no crystal ball, but...
People will always have to eat.
People will always have to have shelter.
People will always require clothing.
Americans are not giving up their love affair with the automobile anytime soon.
And then there is sex and money.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Old folks homes. Because the median age in North America is increasing every year as the leading edge of the boomers is getting ready to retire. Friend of mine bought his first seniors' home back in the late 70s. He's done well, and will do even better very very soon.
"Boom, Bust and Echo" is a good book on the social and business impacts of changing demographics. Think about it guys: imagine owning your very own prostate clinic -- lots of customers, plus you get yourself done at cost. ;)
With 1/3 of the population going to be retired by 2030, think of something that the aging are going to need.
Funeral home
Cremation facility
If you have the land for a trailer park, why not just put in a cemetary, can get more tenants per sq/ft.
Caskets, urns....
I'm thinking of some industry where there is NO service after the sale......you're dead, you're buried or burned...when the phone rings , it's the sound of money waiting to be spent.
Yea , no one Ive heard has the forsight of death you do , but they have told me the next rage is going to be people retiring . Retirement has a lot of busineses related. We need community living here now.
You are right . For a younger man , the death business will be good.
Tim Mooney
Don't know if another person mentioned it but offering a financing package for a home remodel could be the best way to make money.
You, in concert with a bank, offer clients design/build work with a layaway type deal (say no payments for maybe a year) and then a 19 or 22% finance rate kicks in. GM has long made more money from GMAC than just letting others use their own banks or credit unions.
Another pont to consider;Warren Buffett says the key to making money in stocks is knowing exactly what your competitive advantage is, and how long it will last...
I've thought about offering financing in the past.
many moons ago my Dad did low end remodeling and did the financing gig.
At the moment ... I'm looking for strictly high end or restoration jobs ... where the customers better have their ducks in a row and money problems figured out it it ain't gonna fly ...
but ... as with the "economy turns bad" thread ... if I have to move back into bare bones remodeling due to a recession ... I'll seriously consider hooking up with a finance company. I think the financing lends itself to working those types of jobs ... more repair than dress up.
Dad still tells the story of working for one lady ... poor neighborhood ... he was hooked up doing bath updates ... all thru the finance company ... he's about 3/4 done ... one day the lady walks in ... again compliments him on the nice job he's doing ... so she says ... "Mr Buck ... that bank form I filled out for credit? U get your money straight from the bank, right?"
He says Yeah ...
she says "Oh good ... because you've been such a nice man, and I just know I'm not even gonna make one payment on that loan ... but I'd hate to stick U for the money!"
Said he told her ... "Do me a favor ... at least make the first payment, huh?"
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
"Always look on the bright side of death..." right Keith...
Good Thinking!
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!