Replies

1. 
   calvin | Nov 22, 2015 04:14pm | #1

   Jim

   You can run quicker using the end you find easiest to cope and repeating that over and over.

   do not forget however that there are times that the opposite end has its place.

1. 
   jimmiem | Dec 14, 2015 07:11am | #3

   Calvin

   I read/watched the Gary Katz article with the techniques he uses to do baseboards.  I thought he gave some good pointers.   

2. 
   jimmiem | Nov 22, 2015 08:04pm | #2

   finefinish

   I read through your post.  Very interesting points made.  Thank you for directing me to it.  I will do the test copes.

3. 
   Adrian_W | Dec 14, 2015 02:18pm | #4

   I was taught to do it so that the coped joint was in the least visible place..... for example if you walk into a typical recangular bedroom, I would put the piece on the back wall directly in front of you in first, square ends wall to wall...... then run the left and right sides so they were coped into that piece and the other end was square...... last two pieces would be coped into those square ends and butt into the door casing. make sense? The idea is as much as possible have the copes running away from your eye, and each piece has one coped end and one square end.

   You have to be able to cope both left and right at some point, and I can't say I find one side easier than the other, so do it so if the joint does open a bit thereis the least chance of it being seen.

1. 
   jimmiem | Dec 14, 2015 02:51pm | #5

   Makes Sense

   Yes, your method makes sense.  I have seen articles that follow this and some don't.

1. 
   Adrian_W | Dec 14, 2015 09:05pm | #7

   You could consider that the British/Canajun way of doing things. I'm not a production trimmer, never will be, and this 'right handers should go clock/or counterclockwise whatever it is ' idea makes litle sense to me. I've seen some doorhanging methods coming out of that world that similarly make little sense to me, but no one ever hired me to do that stuff so what do i know?

   The older I get, the more i think it's about 'how will it look five years from now?' and 'how will the next guy replace that bit.... am I oing to make it easy or hard on him?'

1. 
   jimmiem | Dec 14, 2015 09:16pm | #9

   British/Canajun

   I'm not familiar with that way of doing things.  Could you explain?

1. 
   Adrian_W | Dec 14, 2015 09:56pm | #10

   Well.... there is a school of 'production' carpentry that I would say is best expressed by for example Larry Haun on the framing side, and Gary Katz on the trim side. Both of them EXTREMELY skilled guys, certainly craftsmen I respect, RIP Larry, and I pay attention to every word they say. But they come out of a world where in part it's about production, working in tract housing, and their methods are driven by that. I'm Canadian, you see some of that in large cities in Canada now (I guess), but I now live in the boonies, and whenI WAS coming up in the bigger cities we did things a different way. Which is why I  paid a lot of attention to those guys because they are super smart and competent, and as it was different I looked for things i could pick up that made me more efficient within the system I worked in. But I never came up in a world where it was about running trim by the linear foot,we did it by the job.I have never worked in a system where you went went from house to house in a large development so those mass prodcution approaches never applied.

   All I am saying is this....the way I was trained (and the way i trained people), you walked in a room, and you looked at it as a room, not an exercise in getting it done as fast as possible.I am not saying Katz does, either....but some do, if that's how you make your living (and I respect that; you do things by the bosses way of it). If you look at it that way, by the room, how do you minimize any imperfections people see, this left hand/right hand stuff goes out the window.... it's no big deal at all to do something on one side of the room, and then go to the other side of the room. 

   Bottom line..... I would encourage you to look at it and make a plan for the room, based on what would look best over time, rather than trying to find the 'best most efficient way'. In my world, the time difference is not significant. But, if you work in that linear foot world, do what you gotta do.

2. 
   junkhound | Dec 15, 2015 12:42am | #11

   Different take, have not coped -or mitered- a baseboard or chair rail or crown moulding for over 35 years.

   Decided the style most functional is a block in the inside corners, and a block on outside corners.  On radiused outside corners this is especially good as you can drill a 1" hole in a block and then cut a 90 deg notch out to fit the outside corner.

   Now all you need to do the corners is the chop saw with good blade.

   There are some areas I simply run a wood strip up an entire inside or outside corner, then dont need to try to finish the DWall inside corner that well either.  However, not very cost effective if you are building for somebody else or a spec house. 

   
3. 
   MarkH | Dec 22, 2015 05:21am | #28

   I'm going to use my electric die grinder with a wood burr if I ever cope baseboard again.  Outside corners might be better with a block for impact damage control.  I think they look better too.

4. 
   jimmiem | Dec 15, 2015 07:31am | #13

   Thank You Adrian

   Thank You for explaining.  Makes even more sense.  My project is to help out my neighbor/friend.  He had a few rooms of hardwood flooring installed .  The contractor did not reinstall the baseboard and ruined a lot of it during removal so it's not just a matter of reinstalling the original pieces.  My neighbor doesn't have any tools.  My miter saw is in my basement workshop and weighs 60 lbs.  I've carried it up the basement stairs a few times in the past and it's not fun.  The Gary Katz method is appealing because I can make a cutlist and pre-cut most of the pieces in my basement.  I know there will be some trips back to the power saw to fine tune.  Also, I can take a manual miter box to the site for some small fixes.  If all the tools were at the site I would use the other process.

5. 
   Adrian_W | Dec 15, 2015 12:28pm | #14

   Yup, whatever fits the situation.

   BTW, I didn't explain myself well earlier..... I mentioned Katz and Haun..... to me they represent a sort of 'California school' of production carpentry that is very different from how I learned (that's where my 'British/Canajun' comment came from..... I learned from guys who learned under British, Canadian and German apprenticeship systems.... pretty traditional). I find the California ways pretty interesting, and when I find a way that is better than my way, I adopt it, and in other cases I stick with my wn methods.

6. 
   jimmiem | Dec 15, 2015 04:49pm | #15

   Adrian

   What is the origin of the California system?  Wouldn't it have its roots in European immigrants?

   Also, I have seen lots of articles on circular saws......westerners prefer worm drive and easterners prefer sidewinders.  The articles never seem to say why.

7. 
   Adrian_W | Dec 15, 2015 05:42pm | #16

   There are those who would know a LOT more about this than me, for sure (and Larry Haun was there though it all so if you read or watch anything by or about him, it will come out..... and I really think every young cat should dig into him, he was a really serious craftsman), but my sense of it was it came out of a post WW II building boom with huge swaths of tract housing going up, so there was a need for high production and efficicncy..... and being on the other side of the country, in the West, maybe a more open or less hidebond way of looking at things. Maybe that happened in the East too, but I associate it with the West more. You can see it in tool development... I believe thats where the modern framing hammer developed, right?, with the straight claws and maybe an axe handle. Very, very innovative.

   I'm a cabinetmaker by trade, though I have been doing more and more carpentry the last few years, so I gravitate more to Katz and the finish work because that's my wheelhouse..... he's a smart guy too, and I listen to him, but his way is rooted in high production new home construction, and I work more in old houses, high end millwork etc. and I've never had to install a gazillion doors a day. So I 'borrow' what's useful to me and leave the rest. I taught cabinetmaking and millwork in a college for a dozen years, so that was like a big lab..... saw a new way to do things, we could try it out and see if we liked it.

   Worm-drive vs sidewinder, can't help you there.... no idea how that happened. But, yes, as an Easterner I have always used sidewinders (though I ache for a wormdrive, just have to bite the bullet). The Home Depot here has one on the shelf, which no one ever buys, and I have never seen one on the job. But I want one; I will call it 'my precious'.

8. 
   jimmiem | Dec 16, 2015 06:47pm | #22

   I Tried

   I tried the Gary Katz method.  The coping with the jig saw worked well.  His miter saw cuts were done so that the blade was to the left of the cut line. On my saw it's easier to see the cut line if the blade is to the right of it.  Like you have said 'whatever works'.

2. 
   calvin | Dec 14, 2015 03:21pm | #6

   Adrian

   Can you stop by for dinner, bring the missus?

1. 
   Adrian_W | Dec 14, 2015 09:16pm | #8

   Resolution: more time on Breaktime

   Cal, it has been a weird old fall and a long haul and I'm sitting here thinking how nice it would be to sit down to table with you and Joyce. Hooking up with you reminded me of all the good people and the fine times on this website. Hope to spend more time here again, now I am older and hopefully a bit smarter.

1. 
   calvin | Dec 15, 2015 06:38am | #12

   Adrian

   Your presence here would be an improvement, hope you continue.

   weird fall?  Sure is.  Mid December and we have a tee time for noon thirty today.

   be real weird if we attack the course on Christmas Eve and don't find frozen ground.  Downside, no super long drives.

   heres hoping your Christmas is merry and your New Year happy!

3. 
   jimmiem | Dec 22, 2015 07:50am | #29

   Adrian

   After coping several pieces I've become a believer in using the method that you were taught i.e. cope joint in least visible place.  My copes are getting better and require less and less fine tuning with a file or sand paper but need a few minutes of tuning to pass the $20 bill test. I've used both a jigsaw and a coping saw.  I don't have a coping shoe for the jig saw and I'm starting to favor the coping saw.  I've been cutting the straight part of the baseboard on the miter saw.....5 degree back cut and miter saw depth stop. 

4. 
   DanH | Dec 15, 2015 05:49pm | #17

   I've always installed baseboard flat against the wall with the long edge parallel to the floor.  Are you guys saying I've been doing it wrong?

1. 
   jimmiem | Dec 15, 2015 06:43pm | #18

   Sounds Right

   Dan, that sounds right....but I'm just a DIYer.  Flat against the wall seems right but the parallel to the floor thing has me puzzled as the floor will be perpendicular to 2 walls (assuming a 4 wall room).  Hopefully Adrian or Clavin will weigh in.  This has turned into one of those questions where the number of different answers is equal to the number of respondents.......but I do like the detailed explanations that Adrian has provided.

5. 
   cussnu2 | Dec 15, 2015 09:28pm | #19

   I always installed it shiny side out....

1. 
   DanH | Dec 15, 2015 09:34pm | #20

   Yeah, but does that curvy part go on the top or the bottom?

2. 
   jimmiem | Dec 15, 2015 09:39pm | #21

   That Would Assume

   That would assume that it has been prefinished and the finish has been applied to the outside i.e. the side that faces into the room.  Back priming could create a lot of confusion.

3. 
   MarkH | Dec 19, 2015 09:21am | #23

   I'm actually being serious here!

   Back in the hills of southeastern Kentuck, baseboard and trim was green rough cut lumber.  You put the best side out, not that there was much difference (if you cared about how it looked).  If the board had a warp, you put the warp out and spiked it to the wall so it got flatter.  If it was curved, you put the curve up and got some help to smash it dow as flat as possible and spiked it down.  Finish nails?  Not on your life.

   Trim was used to keep out some drafts, snakes, rodents, other vermin, and the larger bugs.

   Nowadays, they have small box stores with cheap plastic trim and such there. 

   I always liked the rough houses, and the fantastic people who lived in them, most would sure make you feel at home.  Tin roofs coated with black tar, relaxing porches with a swing and dried beans and peppers hanging to dry in the sun, asphalt siding that somewhat resembled bricks, hounds laying around, maytag washer outside, big coal pile for cooking and heat, pretty gardens with veggies growing well, a hog, cow, chickens for food, a painting of Jesus on the wall, yeah that was nice.  But I live in the suburbs in the industrial north, work in a factory, life's pretty easy, but bland.

   Of course things there aren't what they were back in the day, lots of problems there now.

1. 
   jimmiem | Dec 19, 2015 10:02am | #24

   Maytag

   They had electricity? 

1. 
   DanH | Dec 19, 2015 02:23pm | #25

   It had a hand crank on the side.

6. 
   jimmiem | Dec 19, 2015 06:35pm | #26

   I Am Serious

   My grandmother's was run buy a bicycle contraption that ran the machine.  My brother and I had to take turns after school pedaling the thing on laundry day.  There was a hand ringer on it too.

7. 
   MarkH | Dec 22, 2015 05:06am | #27

   I'm glad someone invented the "automatic" washing machine, throw the clothes or whatever and detergent in it, turn it on, come back when they're done.  But, I want one that dries and folds the clothes for me.  Even better if it hung the clothes too.