Hello,
I’m at the point with my owner build home to start looking at paint. I was hoping to get some advice on which brand. My designer recommended Benjamin Moore, but it’s expensive. Consumer reports has behr highly rated, but i’ve been told it’s not that great. For some reason Consumer Reports doesn’t really rate the quality of the finish or look. I would like to get some recommendations. The walls are satin, the ceiling is ceiling paint.
Thanks,
DP
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Replies
Someone else asked this or a similar question a while ago--maybe you'll find it in archives. I seem to remember most responders not being that thrilled with Behr and liking BM or SW.
I've been happy with most of the name brands. So long as I didn't choose a low end bargain line of paint, they've all been fine. Often I pick a paint based on supporting my local stores and avoiding the big box stores.
I do have a specific recommendation for bathrooms, though. I've used and been very happy with Zinsser Perma-White Mold & Mildew-Proof Interior Paint. It seals the walls well from moisture, it's self priming (saving you one coat), and scrubbable. The satin is actually a bit more glossy than most satin paints, so unless you want a true semi-gloss, the satin will give you a bit of shine for cleanability. It's a little bit trickier to work with because it dries a bit faster than latex, but comes out well. Use a high quality roller, but in a low nap such as ¼".
It's tintable, too. But do pay attention to cutting the tint back as it says on the can, otherwise it will come out darker than if the same tint were used in a latex base.
By the way, even if you are doing your own painting you may wish to bring in a professional to apply primer to the trim, walls, and ceilings by spray, and spray all your ceilings in finished white. Then you can do the time consuming job of applying the different colors to each room at your leisure.
I've used plenty of Behr and Benjamin Moore. I've been happy with both.
When doing professional work I prefer to use BM because I can talk to a professional who knows what they are saying. I don't always get the same feeling where I get the Behr.
I'm doing a painting job right now and I'm using Behr for the ceiling and BM for the walls and cabinets. BM makes a great primer, Fresh Start, that you can use over oil/latex, and top with latex.
When buying Behr ceiling paint check pricing. The 2 gallon pail is very cheap...about $20.00 in my area verses $15.00 or so for a 1 gallon and $78.00 for a 5 gallon.
For BM, if you are a contractor, set-up an account at the paint store and you should get a decent discount that will make the price worthwhile.
-Mark
I've normally been very satisfied with the paints that have rated well in Consumer Reports. They test alot of different brands for alot of different criteria. Consumer Reports also tests paint yearly which is important because the manufacturers have been changing the formulas recently so the performance of one brand may not be the same from year to year. I used Benjamin Moore for years because its what all the other painters swore by, however, after reading Consumer Reports a few years ago I tried the American Tradition Paint at Lowes and have been very pleased with it, it covers at least as well and no one can tell what brand it is once it dries. I think if you don't want to pay for Benjamin Moore than go with one of the top rated paints found in Consumer Reports.
Good posts, all true. Id like to add, Valspar is also well rated, I would also be one to take ratings to heart. If you want to buy local thats fine too.
I use tons of BM, if you want to pay less, one way they dont tell retail market about is the Super Spec line. It is a great paint one step down from the Regal. I do the ceilings in it, its less then I would pay for Behr.
The thread is missing the point a bit, and Id like to hit on it. All paint is created differently, so you have to get to know it. All of your major paints, as long as they havent gone bad will work well. Point being is the paint job makes the difference, not the paint. One may coat well or not slop, but the control will decide the outcome. You could go get the cheapest paint at the crappiest most hated store and Ill give you a killer job, if you spend more it will just take a little less time, and make my life easier.
If you are willing, go to this link in House Chat and read my post #7 about rolling a wall and see how your next job comes out. If you have further questions feel free to ask.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-housechat&msg=287.6
-zen
Edited 1/16/2005 5:38 pm ET by zendo
Thanks all. Walmart paint is highly rated by Consumers as well, and it's cheaper. I may look at that as well.-DP
I'm curious about the "wet edge" (i.e. per you other posting). When I deided to take painting more seriously (around the same time that I found I had lots to paint); I started trying to maintain the magical wet edge, just like my father and grandfather did. Now, I just cut in a coat or two (let's face it, usually 2 coats) of edging around all ceilings, doors, baseboards, ...; let it dry; then roll the wall. No wet edge, and it looks fine to me. The paint crew I work with now and then tell me that the wet edge is a remnant of the oil paint era, and isn't necessary with newer latex paints - not sure if they're right or wrong, but that seems to match my limited experience..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Phil,
As for the paint guys you worked with, there is always an excuse to cut corners.
Peoples perception, and idea of an acceptable paint job is pretty loose usually. Even the Painters and Decorators Association defines a decent job as "no visible mistakes( sags, runs, ...) with normal light at 5 ft. away"
My thoughts are that you can have standard results fairly easily, but to have an exceptional job it takes the little things that others cant define, they just know it looks better.
As for the wet edge specifically, oil paint has a longer open time, so I feel the statement that was given to you is a bit contrary. On ceilings you may not see a big difference, but I think keeping that wet edge does make a superior result. What happens when the cutting dries, is it creates a visible lined texture wether the brush is well loaded or lean. When you roll over, you only cover part of that line, and the paint builds a new pattern on top of the lined pattern and you can see both. If you maintain a wet edge the roller impresses the cut line and marries the two. When the wall is complete you are only left with a small cut area where there is an abutting surface.
Its the compilation of all the small techniques that will add up to your greater whole. The kicker is that once you create a rhythm, the particulars take very little extra time, with a severely different result.
-zen
"Point being is the paint job makes the difference, not the paint. One may coat well or not slop, but the control will decide the outcome. You could go get the cheapest paint at the crappiest most hated store and Ill give you a killer job, if you spend more it will just take a little less time, and make my life easier."
The point would be that a good paint mechanic may be able to make a job look good with the cheap, crappy paint...doesn't mean it gave you the best results.
Barry E-Remodeler
BARRY!!!!!!!!!!
Man, good to see you're still alive and kicking!
Can you believe Richard is STILL trying to sell me on Contractors Network!!
Hope life has been treating you well my friend.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Hi James
Good to see you back on the boards. I'm still getting the CNN emails also, not even sure how I got on his mailing list.
If you go over to the old Paintstore bb it seems to be Richard's bb now. They deepsixed Bill..though he keeps popping up <g>
life's getting better..hope it's the same for you.
Barry E-Remodeler
I've used both brands you mentioned extensively. With drywall, I prefer a flat, satins and semi-glosses highlight the joint compound under. Almost all the better paints are washable.
I returned to a job I had done in Behr after a year or so. It looked faded, it was an off white color. I had to make some sheetrock repairs after an electrician made cuts to fish some wires. I bought some more Behr in the same color. It was noticeably darker than the original. Whether the original faded or the second mix was just different, I don't know. My experience with inexpensive paint is that it needs three coats to get the rich look, even with tinted primer.
Many of the better pro painters here, like ICS, California and SW.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
With satin finished paint, angular sheen can become a nightmare when it's time to do touch-up. I think BM has too much vinyl in their latex based paint, and therefore doesn't allow acceptable touch-up. I know that teperature and humidity affect the finish of the paint, but my experience tells me that SW is a better paint overall.
I have used BM for almost 30 years.
But for latex (walls and ceilings) I have started to use more Behr "Premium Plus" (from Home Depot) in the last couple of years. In terms of coverage, I actually think it is superior to BM, and it certainly is cheaper.
However, for casings, doors, and trim work, I still prefer BM Satin Impervo.
Stay away from Behr-ly covers
I bought a 5 gal pail of Behr cieling paint and had to put 3 coats on to cover white over white. Wife complained and got all our money back
I guess they factor in refunds when pricing
Anyway, you cant go wrong with benny moore
The point would be that a good paint mechanic may be able to make a job look good with the cheap, crappy paint...doesn't mean it gave you the best results.
Yes, precisely, thats why I mentioned the aforementioned much earlier in the thread.
I'll take your word for it.
Barry E-Remodeler
Every good builder in my area (Metro Boston, Ma) uses Ben Moore, on spec houses as well as their own. Stop by a Home Depot and watch people buying paint (i.e. their Behr brand), you don't see the professional painters or builders. There is a reason why. Check out Ben Moore's website and go to the local retailer, if you tell them you will be buying paint for an entire house then you should be able to get them to give you some type of contractor pricing. We used Ben Moore new flat washable paint and liked it alot. Paint is like car's, a Lexus is more expensive than a Toyota for a reason, its a much nicer car. Paint is the same. On fresh plastered walls two coats covered very well (except red, that took 6 with a primer). We used light greens, dark green, linen white and straw colors and found that primer was not needed. My guess is with Behr primer would have been needed, and between the extra $$ for primer and the time that makes the cost difference disappear.
I've been using Behr for awhile and have no complaints.
I'm thankful for the loyal opposition! It's hard to learn much from those who simply agree with you.
I have used Behr once, a real tough situation, deep burgandy over almost black wall paper with roses on it. Did pink tinted primer and it took 5 coats. Called to see if I was doing anything wrong,( Piffin and others had already warned me). They explained such colors had almost no solids and only pigment. Had to build. They refunded cost of primer, roller covers, brushes, even after I said "hey it's not your fault". Customer service above and beyond if you ask me.
The paint flowed well, and was very good to work with. By the way, my dear daughter loved the results despite the liver and brain cells dad wasted from it. The paint was very comparable to the Bennie Moore I am used to using.
Another dark horse great value in my opinion is the True Value offering. Rich and creamy and (if there was such a thing) a joy to use for a great price.
I've only used it in more typical situations.
I'd be surprised to see any pale pastel of any brand cover the dark wallpaper you describe.
The Behr has worked just fine for me on new primed sheetrock and I've used about 100 gallons over the past year in a wide variety of sheens and colors.I'm thankful for the loyal opposition! It's hard to learn much from those who simply agree with you.
MAB or Moore. Used to use Pratt & Lambert but can't find it anywhere now. Is it still made? Behr is for the birds. Yuck!
May not be available in all areas, but I've found that you absolutely cannot beat Porter Paints.
I've tried all the different store brands as a DIYer homeowner. Now, as a full-time pro carpenter/contractor/part-time painter I've yet to find a better product, and in the end you'll spend no more than 10-15% extra (a couple 100 bucks at most) on a whole house.
They don't do any advertising.
MikeVB
Behr has got a major class action suit against it...
it's not even fer the birds...
go with sherwin...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Behr has got a major class action suit against it...
Any more info or a link??
I found this:http://www.skwwc.com/cases/casesclassaction.htmlI'm painting over cheap, dark masonite panelling with Behr paint from Home Depot - took three coats of white primer to keep the panelling from bleeding through. I don't know how that compares to other brands, though.didI like ice cream
Darn,
Im feeling bad for you. Dark Masonite is oil impregnated. Its oil that is coming through your paint. It will probably keep coming. My bigger fear is that over time the paint will slough off at the original layer. Did you scuff it big time?
Maybe keep going, but in the future its not a great surface to work on.
-zen
Well, masonite might be the wrong word - it's 1/8" panelling, might actually be plywood. I did get bleed-through on the first coat and a little still on the second, but the third seems to be holding. I was guessing it was the dye used to give the stuff its alleged wood look. Doesn't look half bad painted, though in my house it's strictly an excercise in turd-polishing.didI like ice cream
use kiltz or bin oil base primer 1st on that type of surface...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
IIRC there was a varity of suits against Behr for poor preformance...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
"Regular" primer is not the right product to use, that's why you had trouble. Painting over surfaces that can bleed (such as wood knots, cedar, stained or dyed surfaces, surfaces with staining spills, and so forth) has to be done with a stain blocking primer. There are several; many are shellac based.
The ordinary drywall primer is made for sealing the surface to even out absorbtion between different areas (spackle vs. drywall, for instance), for adhering well to the base surface, and in turn providing a surface to which the top coat can adhere solidly. To achieve these properties they have to increase the binder content in place of pigments and glossifiers. So, many primers do not cover well, and don't provide good protection against bleeding.
SW has done some testing on tinting primers and apparently they found that about 5 shades of gray does the best for general wall priming. The right primer under deep colors is critical, unless you feel like doing four or five coats (like I did for Maple Leaf Red). If you have different colors in every room, one or two different shades of gray may be just the answer. I wish I had known this before I started painting. I tinted the ceiling primer, since all ceilings were the same, but I used the white Fresh Start on the walls. Some walls still took three or four coats of finish paint.For stain blocking or anything with bleed through possibilities I haven't found anything to beat Zinsser's white pigmented shellac. It says it can be tinted, but I haven't done that.
IMERC and diddidit thanks!
the link and suit action is in the archives IIRC....
gotta be only 6 months ago or so...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
P+L was bought by SW a few years back, and they seemed to have gutted it. Eighteen years ago when I painted, I used only P+L, and loved it, particularly the ceiling paint, which was nearly splatter-less. I bought the P+L paint 2 years ago when I did my own ceilings, and it was terrible.
Guys at the local paint store have stopped carrying it b/c they feel the quality is no longer there, and they are getting no dealer support. I stick with BM now; BTW, I have used the Behr interior flat (I had a Home Depot gift card), and don't particularly like it, very muddy on the brush, not smooth at all, and doesn't seem to hold up very well. I like the Glidden much better for a cheap flat, if you have to use HD.
In our local Home Depot, the major outlet for Behr, the "paint guy", who had 20 years in the business before working for HD, says that Behr gets their rating because of it's "scrubability". If you look at their eggshell finish, it's practically semi-gloss, and in my mind, not very attractive because of it. It's that relatively glossier look that gets them their high rating for. If price is an issue, you can get Glidden eggshell on the next shelf. A bit cheaper with a more pleasing finish (to me, anyway). I'm sure there are other paints with equal or better finishes (I like Sherwin-Williams), but your'e talking another $5-6 a gallon.
The High Desert Group LLC
ya get what ya pay for....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
All the Behr trim paint I know is acrylic and when I think of BM I think of Impervo (oil), which I hold in high regard. But then all premium oil I regard better than any premium acrylic.
When Consumers does compare paints, and theirs is the only critical comparison I've ever seen, the rankings change by color because that changes the chemistry. Last I saw BM was around the top, as was Behr.
I've used Scheuder from http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/ and was astonished by how good it was but they now import a different brand which I haven't used. Trim paint from them costs twice what the BM does but long term they argue it's cheaper.
Well applied Impervo can look almost sprayed on.
Edited 1/18/2005 10:28 am ET by Jeff2
Thirty three responses thus far.....you`ve probably recieved the input you`d hoped for.....without reading through the thread myself, I`ll only say that for the most part there is usually good reason for one product to carry a higher pricetag.....designer names aside.
I`ve used many brands of paint throughout the years.....Benjamin Moore is the only one I bother with on my own home.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I skimmed this thread and don't think I saw any Dunn Edwards users? Any here? I'm an owner builder and have used Dunn Edwards on other projects; probably the first time at someone elses expense. I don't know what it is about Dunn Edwards paint, but it just flows nicely and seems quite durable with excellent coverage.
I mimmiced a wainscoating by painting below a chair rail in the master bedroom and as Dunn Edwards isn't that convenient of a location, especially on the weekend, I jumped over to HD for a Glidden product. The product was okay, but didn't have the flow I wanted; it was difficult to cut in on the trim and the brush seemed to gum up a little making cutting in more effort. Yeah, I could go with an inhibitor additive or whatever, but it just seems like Dunn Edwards flows much better. I like the color I used of the Glidden and would like to use in some other parts of the house, and looks like I will get the same color at Dunn Edwards and repaint the masterbedroom part before moving on to the other parts of the house just so that I have one brand to remember to use for touch up and repainting purposes.