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Discussion Forum

Which software to purchase

gdcarpenter | Posted in Tools for Home Building on February 15, 2009 02:04am

I’m currently taking an AUTO CAD program at the local college to

A) Broaden my skill set
B) Keep exercising my brain

Looking at purchasing ‘software’, but what to get

A) Straight AUTO CAD
B) Architectural AUTO CAD
C) REVIT
D) One of the dedicated player such as
1) Chief
2) Softplan

And wondering if once AUTO CAD is understood if the other dedicated players learning curve is therefore much shorter?

Let’s not confuse the issue with facts!

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Replies

  1. Piffin | Feb 15, 2009 02:22am | #1

    as student, you can get a student version cheaper, or get acad lite.

    For residential design your learning time and software investment is better spent on chief or Softplan. Lots of guys who started on ACAD are moving to those two because they are so much easier and faster, but they have to unlearn ACAD to work in the different environment.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  2. Dave45 | Feb 15, 2009 02:44am | #2

    "...once AUTO CAD is understood if the other dedicated players learning curve is therefore much shorter?"

    The short answer is "yes and no". - lol

    I've been using 'puters since the early 80's and have learned 3-4 word processing programs, 2-3 spreadsheets, two relational data base programs, and three CAD programs. One thing that I learned (and taught several others) is that the FIRST program you learn of a general type (e.g. CAD) is the most difficult to learn. When you move the the next one, you already have a pretty good idea of WHAT it can (or should) do and the biggest problem is learning HOW to get it to do that.

    I learned drafting in HS and college in the '60s and got pretty good with a T-square, triangles, and 2H pencil. In '95, I started using AutoCAD LT and - after I figured it out - got to the point where I would fire up the 'puter before I would grab pencil and paper. I could just fly with it. No thinking needed - just look at the screen while my hand moved the mouse, clicked this, clacked that, and magic stuff happened.

    I moved to TurboCAD about three years ago and had a terrible time making the transition. My first TC drawing took over a day to do something that I could have whipped out in AC in about an hour!! - lol I knew WHAT I wanted it to do, but had a helluva time figuring out HOW to do it.

    Now, I can fly with TC and when I go back to one of my old AC drawings, I have to stop and think about how it works.

    As far as what program you should buy, it's all about what you'll need and how much you want to spend. None of the "real" CAD programs are cheap and full AutoCAD can run upwards of $2,500. Several people like (and do nice work with) programs like Sketchup. It comes in a free version and I understand that the "fuller" version isn't terribly expensive.

    1. User avater
      gdcarpenter | Feb 15, 2009 02:53am | #3

      Thanks for the feedback. Know I can get a 'full blown' 'student' version of AUTO CAD for under $500.00. knowing it can't be used professionally since "Student Version" is stamped on the prints.Figure learning AUTO CAD, at least the basics, can never hurt. Know it is not in the same league but have done a lot of work on 3D Achitecture.Just wondering what might serve me most usefully in broadening my employmentability in todays market vis a vis construction.Let's not confuse the issue with facts!

      1. Piffin | Feb 15, 2009 03:04am | #4

        with regards to employability versatility ACAD is still the all around standard for big corp world so adding it to skillsets is good thinking.but iof for your own productivity and pleasure... 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  3. sunsen | Feb 15, 2009 03:25am | #5

    I found chief architect to be pretty easy to learn. Within a couple of months of purchasing the program I had submitted my first set of plans to a building department. Some years prior I had picked up Autocad Lt and fooled around with it. Somehow I can't imagine the same result. It was very command intensive.

    Also, the renderings chief allows you to do were a total bonus. It's a very impressive program in that regard. Almost like looking at a photo of what's been in your mind's eye. Great stuff. 

  4. JohnD1 | Feb 15, 2009 04:33am | #6

    OK, this was from my previous experience as an engineer (and a pretty good one too) until I was selectively dehired. In my time there I had gotten quite proficient at SolidWorks. There is a lower-priced version of that also.

    There is a learning curve on this program, but it has a really good tutorial which if you follow it, you can do most of the features. The really nice part is that it is really intuitive: You actually construct a 3-D object in "cyberspace". On all of the other drafting programs you have to first imagine the part in 3-D, and then imagine how to put it onto a flat piece of paper, hoping that the next person in line will understand your drawings and convert it back into the proper 3-D product.

    Unlike Sketchup, this program actually works with solids, so if you cut the part, you still have a solid piece remaining. Trying to get Sketchup to work after having worked with SolidWorks is still a nuisance for me.

    And, yes, SolidWorks has an architectural use also.

    EDIT: Oh, yes. It does beautiful layout drawings once you are done.



    Edited 2/14/2009 8:34 pm by JohnD1

  5. User avater
    CapnMac | Feb 15, 2009 05:25am | #7

    The following is opinion.  it is based on having first worked with V1.83 ACAD in 1984 and through ADT and later Arch'09 as well as the "straight" versions through '08.

    A) Straight AUTO CAD

    Will draw anything.  From circuit boards to process diagrams to sign graphics to set design to plans architectural or engineering.  It has menus ad tooltips to support all of those, and none of the menus or tools are suppressed or have their names modified to suit a (presumed) specific argot or lingo.  best of all, it has no hidden switches that can be toggled which are designed solely for creating an artifical interface the better to impress IT VPs and oter similar non-serious users.  It also supports Lisp, VBA, and the rest of the very well developed and broad base of add-on software, much of which is freeware or forum-ware.

    B) Architectural AUTO CAD

    Has several specialized menus and routines built right in.  It's really ACAD, it's just behind a curtain.  The main change from ADT, Architectural Desktop to Architecture is that many processes are codified and have to be followed in sequential order to be useful.  This is the case even when that process is 80% un-needed--you still have to slog through the steps, or the linked interactivity "breaks" which causes a cascade of issues later on.  Now, for some light commercial, some high-density residential, those processes are spot-on.  Remodleing work, single spec house work, non-design/build work, then it gets further away from efficient.  ADT/ARCH is still aimed at the firm with 15-20 CAD seats, building million-ten million dollar genericl projects (it's semi-useless for banks with vaults, for one).  Much more limited base for add-on support/improvment software.  May not fully integrate with other "vertical" Autodesk applications like Map, Civil, Landscape, Mechcanical and the like (which can be hugely frustrating).

    C) REVIT

    Is fascinating, if more than some different from ACAD.  Right now, the main problem with revit as software is that the user interface seems aimed at people working on hundred-million dollar projects (airports, stadia, conference centers, etc.)  If a person had an integrated residential project design where the structural, and the mechanical engineers were part of the design process, it might have a great utility.  There are strong rumors that ACAD is to morph into a Revvit only.  Rumors are quite cheap.

    Now, ACADLT, for as long as Autodesk continues to sell it, has a place in the scheme of things.  It's mostly a good solid 2d electronic drafting board.  It has some quirks, inherited from its "parent" version of ACAD (which is not the same version number).  LT has only a limited "hook" for using the very broad base of add-on Lisp function out there, though.

    One of the best Autodesk software packages out there is the one with the least support, AutoSketch.  This is ACADLT Light.  Was MSRP in the $150 range.  it was laptop-friendly, practially PDA-friendly, yet did everything, mostyl, the casual user wanted.  Sadly, Autodesk seems bound and determined to only sell software in million dollar sales to only VPs or CIOs or the like--the thousands of customers with individual seats clearly don't lunch at the smae places . . .

     

    Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
    1. User avater
      gdcarpenter | Feb 15, 2009 06:33am | #8

      Thank you one and all for all your insights. Seems the more you learn the more you know you don't know, but isn't, or shouldn't, that always be the case. I won't touch Chief vs Softplan vs Vectorworks vs Envisioneer, though from my limited research I would lean towards Envisoneer because of it's reportedly better take off abilities and not dealing with subsystems as 'blocks'.A truly fascinating experience learning from you all.But for under $500.00 as a student seems it would be hard to go wrong getting AUTOA CAD, leaving other options in the future open.Let's not confuse the issue with facts!

      1. Dave45 | Feb 15, 2009 08:12am | #9

        Probably a good plan. If I could have scored full ACAD for $500, I might have passed on TurboCAD, but since my "student" days ended in the mid 70's, and IMSI was offering a fantastic deal to folks who had legit copies of competing CAD programs, I took the leap.

  6. jimAKAblue | Feb 15, 2009 08:29pm | #10

    You can download the pro version of Chief and get the full effect from the real deal. I'll soon be selling a XI version (with the dongle and full license). I've made good money (I charge $3500 for a construction set that includes about $500 for a foundation/structural engineer)  with CA and yes, it's frustrating but I probably made my own bed for not buying the training tapes. I hunted and pecked my way through it and put out a set of plans on my first agonizing try.

    You probably could buy a used set and get the training tapes and upgrade to XII for about 2k.

    1. MikeSmith | Feb 16, 2009 12:56am | #13

      jim...are you going to sell an extra license ?.... I have 3, so I'm going to cut back to 2... and mine are all upgraded to X2have you looked at X2 yet ?...... i jumped straight from 10 to X2, i was so impressedif you have X1 ,and you buy SSA for $395, it includes X2.... and all the training tutorials are online...i usually run the tutorials on my Mac.... while I'm working the sample projects on my HP.... trying to figure out how to detail a pole barn right now.... from the footings to the ridgeedit: well , that's not really true... right now... i'm cruising thru about 12,000 pics and playing with "facial recognition" on the Mac in iPhotoMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      Edited 2/15/2009 5:01 pm ET by MikeSmith

  7. grahammay | Feb 15, 2009 08:35pm | #11

    student version download 18 months free, need email ID from school

    1. User avater
      gdcarpenter | Feb 15, 2009 11:41pm | #12

      Good to know, thanks
      Let's not confuse the issue with facts!

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