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Our kitchen plan calls for a 4′ by 7′ work island at counter top height with the 7′ side parallel to the fridge and range, and then attached to opposite 7′ side of the work island awill be a 4′ by 5′ table, at table height.
Why are so many people trying to convince us to use a smaller table (or forgo it altogether) moving the table away from the work island, and use stools on the 7′ side of the work island facing the fridge and range??
Everyone seems to want us to eat all our meals at the island like we’re sitting at a lunch counter at the local diner (except that the stools would be higher because the island is at 36″ from the floor)
Does anyone REALLY and TRULY find that stools are comfortable for 3 meals a day? I don’t think so, and I’m 5’10” tall. I think the seats are often too small, there isn’t enough knee/leg room because the counter top overhang is too short, and I hate trying to move my stool closer to the counter top at other folks’ houses when my feet barely touch the ground.
What is this obsession or trend over the last few years in which people want to eat all meals while sitting on stools, side by side? Am I the only one that really doesn’t care for stools at the islands? Why can’t the guests sit at the table and watch me cook and chat with me from there?
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Diane,
The quick answer would be that it is your kitchen - do it the way you want because that's the way you want it. End of discussion.
The way I read your description - may be wrong, but, with a 4x5 table attached to the long side of a 4x7 island counter it just appears that you have a two level table/island where you lose about 10 lin. ft. of standing/sitting space and you have ridiculously wide area at least 8 feet across where the middle will be unreachable and therefore unusable. You no longer have an island, you have a small continuent.
That's how I read the first paragraph about your kitchen plan. That also may be the why of paragraph 2.
As for the comfort of the stools? Yes, they can be comfortable, just try them out before you buy.
You don't say if you have the room to separate the island and the table. You could have both, so that visitors could sit and chat as you work in the kitchen and you have a choice of standard table or counter for eating.
We build it either way. In my own home, a 2 ft. wide by 11 ft. long countertop at 42 inches off the floor, in what we call our dining room (not a real formal dining room) faces and is attached to a standard height countertop of the same length in the kitchen. Sometimes we eat at the table, sometimes at the counter.
As for other people's homes and stools, be polite, don't complain, tuff it out or stand. You'll be invited back, that way.
*Beats the hell outta me, but it's your house and you're gonna live there so do it to please your family and you. If the others don't like it, there's the door.Possibly they're alcoholics and it reminds them of their favorite watering hole. Maybe this discussion would be better placed over at the Tavern.Enjoy your new home.
*Diane V;We have a set of Thos. Moser bowback's at our breakfast bar. Not only are they comfortable but aestetically very pleasing. If your not familiar with Moser you should check them out - they are out of Auburn Maine. They will also do custom heights... We have a very open floor plan with a high-end kitchen (granite & stainless) with the breakfast bar towards the center of the house (very visible) and wanted bar stools that would complement this arrangement. Would I want to eat 3 meals here? no. But we use them often for eating and guests do tend to congregate while dinner is being prepared (usually by my wife). Assuming a dining room I don't think I'd swap the bar for a kitchen table.Good Luck
*Well Diane,I don't think you're the only person that has this opinion about sitting at an island or peninsula on a tall bar stool. The last two kitchens that I built the cabinetry for, homeowners requested that I build a lower attached countertop that could be sat at with regular height kitchen chairs. The one customer requested that I build the lower attached bar top opposite the dining room table so that if he did not wish to dine at the table, he could just grab a chair and turn it around and sit at the bar, and quite comfortably too I might add.
*Diane, For the most part, others have hit it on the head...Designers "design"...Friends "opine"...But you have to live with it. And in it. You know your lifestyle better then we know your lifestyle. Design for how you live. As a 6'4" guy married to a 5'1" wife, you wouldn't "fit" into the lifestyle my kitchen is designed for...but then again...you're not supposed to.Design and build for "Diane", not for "resale". If you ever market your house down the road, no matter what you do, every prospective buyer is gong to walk through mumbling "...we can rip that out...and move this over there...".I'm constantly amazed at how many people's "custom kitchens" are actually quite standard. Standards are a fine thing to aspire to, if you yourself are standard.Best of luck.
*Am doing work for someone who is using suspended seating, not stools, under the counter. Will source this out and get back to you by end of the week.
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What a great set of responses...and some kind of funny, too! Based on the first response, we just may end up with a small continent which isn't quite what I'd like. The house is a 1918 brick colonial so suspended seating is a bit too modern! We completely gutted the house. The kitchen plan is still on paper so it can be modified for a little while longer.
I never complain at friends' houses about their stools - don't get me wrong! I deal with it..and make note to myself if the chair style or height is comfortable or not in case we do incorporate them.
Does Thos. Moser company have a web site?
The kitchen is about 18' x 21' after combining a butler's pantry, a closet, and stealing some space from the "parlor" next to it on the west side. The dining room is to the south. All 3 rooms are separated by walls and doors. The cooking/prep/cleaning part is L-shaped on the northe and east sides. The west side, 21' away, has upper and lower cabinets, a second oven, and utility cloest and either side of a set of french doors to the parlor. The south side kitchen wall is 7' wide in the middle, with a 36" door on each side of the wall foot wide, and then a little bit more wall on the outside edges of the doors.
I am still "discussing" the island and table design with the hubby. He wants what I originally described, or, choice two is a pie shaped island at 36" counter height with stools and will eat all meals in the formal dining room. I grew up eating casually in the kitchen and still want that which to me, eliminates choice two in my mind. A friend of ours has a huge pie shaped island, and talk about looking like a small continent... At least our first option has two heights to it - 36" and 30".
The reason for us wanting a 4' wide work island was to provide extra storage space on the back side of the island under the counter (we have so much kitchen stuff its crazy).
But I am willing to narrow the work island to 2' or 3' with an overhang for stools/sitting and move a smaller table away from it for seating around 3 or 4 sides. But, with that idea, the hubby feels it will block the occasionally used passage way between one of the dining room doors and the patio door directly across from it to the north.
Even though we are having trouble finalizing this part of the kitchen, at least we both agree to do what WE want....although sometimes the pressure of the latest trends or having to make quick decisions throws us off. We do try to take in all advice politely whether we use it or not. You never know what you might learn from someone.
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Diane,
http://www.thosmoser.com Beautiful stuff, high quality=high cost. They're really nice people and will respond to emailed questions. Only trouble is once you look at their stuff, you'll want one of each. Kim Carleton Graves makes some nice stuff as do others that post here. Check out their web sites too!
Good luck with the kitchen.
Eric
*Diane,Just another thought on your original island/table idea.With a table permanently attached to one side of the island, you will have difficulty with that area of storage space in the island unless you are willing to crawl under the table each time you want something from the backside storage.To remedy that... picture a large, VERY LARGE, breadboard (about the size of the 4x5 table) being pulled out of a slot in the backside of the island at a height of approx. 30 inches. Add two drop-down legs or two permanent legs against or inset into the island side and presto, instant table (3 sides only). Push it back into the slot and the drawers above and drawers or cabinet doors below are easily accessible and the walk around area is not compromised. Pull it half-way out for a quick sit-down snack for two or all the way out for four.A good cabinet maker can flesh out the idea and build it, too (just ask Adrian, Mad Dog or Kim).Also makes for an interesting conversation piece.
*Ralph,You succeeded in reminding me of a kitchen install done way back. Custom German cabs from Ontario. Exactly as you describe. The legs were the stiles. I'm thinking there was some hd full ext. glides. Worked well and served a purpose. Jeez, wonder what else I've forgotten. At the time I think Wolfgang and I thought is was the coolest thing we'd ever seen. Zeig heil.
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Diane,
We are in the process of finishing a kitchen in a 11x21 foot space that had been a screen porch. We have a 4x5 foot area of butcherblock, at counter height, at the end of the wall with the range on it.
On two sides the butcherblock extends 18 inches over the storage cabinet below it.
We found four lowback birdcage windsor style maple stools (somewhat like the Moser 'tractor seat' model) with swivel seats at an antique shop in our town (sorry, no manufacturer marks). They're great, and we find ourselves (family of four) eating all three meals there. I'd recommend swivel seats if you can find them.
The arrangement works for us because of the L shape and windows at counter height along that wall. I'm not certain we'd like it as well if we were all lined up on one side facing straight ahead.
The other positive point for a larger, counter-height area, is that it provides a bigger space for major food preparation jobs. And, since our dining room is next to that area of the kitchen, we can use it for buffet serving on those times when we have larger groups in the dining room.
We didn't want to duplicate table space in the kitchen and dining room. This arrangement is working well for us.
*Ralph, What a great idea! Tucking away the table from fully hidden to partially out to fully out is something I will definitely keep in mind. Eric,Thank you for the Thos. Moser web address. I will go there shortly.Thanks to everyone for great suggestions, ideas, thoughts.....I love this place.Diane
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If you do decide to go with a table/snackbar up against the kitchen work counter, you may want to consider having a curve on the side where people will sit. Most conference tables have this shape - almost an oval on long conference tables. It can be fairly frustrating trying to carry on a conversation with someone at the other end of the snack bar but can't see them. Of course, if you are like me at breakfast, perhaps you don't really want to have to see anyone else...
*Hey put me on an island, sunshine and a beer, and I will sit on anything.But whadda I knowDavid
*Dianne;One last thought. If you do opt for bar stools consider just a couple. We are a family of four and only have two at the counter. Our rationale here is why put four stools when at that point we would be sitting at the dinning room table. As logical as it seems you would be surprised how many would try to jam 4 bar stools under an eight foot long bar space. Our arrangement allows for plenty of elbow room.Will
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Our kitchen plan calls for a 4' by 7' work island at counter top height with the 7' side parallel to the fridge and range, and then attached to opposite 7' side of the work island awill be a 4' by 5' table, at table height.
Why are so many people trying to convince us to use a smaller table (or forgo it altogether) moving the table away from the work island, and use stools on the 7' side of the work island facing the fridge and range??
Everyone seems to want us to eat all our meals at the island like we're sitting at a lunch counter at the local diner (except that the stools would be higher because the island is at 36" from the floor)
Does anyone REALLY and TRULY find that stools are comfortable for 3 meals a day? I don't think so, and I'm 5'10" tall. I think the seats are often too small, there isn't enough knee/leg room because the counter top overhang is too short, and I hate trying to move my stool closer to the counter top at other folks' houses when my feet barely touch the ground.
What is this obsession or trend over the last few years in which people want to eat all meals while sitting on stools, side by side? Am I the only one that really doesn't care for stools at the islands? Why can't the guests sit at the table and watch me cook and chat with me from there?
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We just finished a new kitchen on a renovation of a 1919 farmhouse about 22x16 with a corner entrance-exit area, and therefore lots of lower cabinet wall space and room for two sinks, stoves, and refrigerators, and a baking table, on the outside walls, (mostly windows and small custom cabinets above). We have a heavy 6x3" farm table, a real table, in the middle of the kitchen, and no island. Feels much more open and flexible, not to mention friendlier.
Re: storage: If you kept your pantry, or created a new one, you'd gain floor to ceiling storage space on both sides of the interior wall, roughly the equivalent of two and a half times the storage space of an island, for the same footprint. (if it was a pantry alcove, with no door swing, you'd gain even more).
It takes so long to remodel on this scale that all the trendy kitchen features will have changed by the time you are finished anyway, so you're wise to just do what you like! Suzanne