Replies

1. 
   Jeff_J._Buck | Mar 23, 2001 09:37pm | #1

   *
   Go Stabila. Definitely durable...and close enough to "true level" for high-end finish work. Jeff

1. 
   Jon_Blakemore | Mar 23, 2001 10:42pm | #2

   *Jim, Stabila for stick level, no better way to go. Water level for site work (idiot-proof)Jon

1. 
   Schelling_McKinley | Mar 23, 2001 11:48pm | #3

   *Stabila here too. It is possible to have a level that is too sensitive. My partner had a level which we dubbed the "never level" because the difference of a match book cover would take the bubble completely out of the lines. As finicky as he was, my partner eventually relegated it to the old tool shelf.

1. 
   Ian.D.Gilham. | Mar 24, 2001 01:27am | #4

   *Jon,Unfortunately, in Saudi we found a water-level to be unreliable when transferring a datum from outside to inside. With half the tube in the sun and half in the shade we were getting discrepancies of up to 1/2", due to the water in the heated half expanding.It took a lot of swearing before we tracked it down!I agree with the Stabila, best of all it is adjustable so if it does go out (falling 3 storeys does it!) it can be rectified.

1. 
   GACC_DAllas | Mar 24, 2001 02:22am | #5

   *Hey Jim,So far I've sent two Stabila's back to the factory for replacments because they went out of level. They did replace them at no charge, but it took a while for the carpenters to catch on that something was wrong with their levels before we sent them in. During the time before we found the problem, they spent many a frustrated hour trying to figure out what was wrong. They, understandably, trusted their levels. It turned out the level was not accurate. the plumb function was fine, but the level vials were off.So much for Stabila. The lifetime warrenty is great, and they do honor it, but there is no red light flashing to suggest that your level has, on it's own, become less than level. You should check your level, whatever brand it is, at least once a week.I like Sands levels. Built to last, and I've never sent one back to the factory.Ed.

2. 
   Chris_Robb | Mar 24, 2001 02:38am | #6

   *Not trying to start a fight, but I've got an MacD Digital that proves the framers wrong EVERY time, fairly durable (I don't throw it off buildings)but is calibratable on site in about thirty seconds, and works in degrees, percentages (grade), and drop (per foot).

3. 
   Mike_Willms | Mar 24, 2001 03:10am | #7

   *Stabila, no question.I've never seen a calibratable Stabila, Ian. Maybe you have an older model. I can't see why a level would need to be re-calibrated anyway. If it starts to read out of level, it's unreliable. Easy check for accuracy is level something, spin the level end-for-end and re check. Should read excactly the same both ways.

4. 
   Joseph_Fusco | Mar 24, 2001 03:34am | #8

   *

   I now vote for the 10 year old $9 Johnson aluminum level that I've been using for the last year. I have posted in the past about my levelution (set), smart levels (3), Stabilas (3) and the ten or 15 wood mason levels (2ft, 4ft, 6ft) I have laying around and their all good.The thing is I have $3000.00 invested in GOOD levels when the $9 one stacks up!

   View Image © 1999-2001"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle

5. 
   Pete_Draganic | Mar 24, 2001 04:24am | #9

   *Actually, some levels have an indication on them refering to their accuracy. FHB, I believe, did an article on this some time ago....or maybe it ewas a discussion here some time ago.Pete

6. 
   JonC_ | Mar 24, 2001 04:47am | #10

   *It only takes a few seconds to test a level for true, it doesnt even require a level surface. You can do it pretty much anywhere. If you dont know how to do it, you shouldnt even walk out of a store with one. You wont know what you just bought.JonC

7. 
   Mike_Smith | Mar 24, 2001 05:16am | #11

   *4' levels are great for straight edges....but for level ,plumb, and square i'll stick to the old tried and true self-leveling laser..like my PL-3..the new series of Robo looks great, too.. that full page ad they had in JLC was very interesting...b but hey,whadda i no ?

8. 
   Greg_Brown | Mar 24, 2001 05:29am | #12

   *I too am from the Stabila camp-I have an arsenal of the puppies. Had my 6'6" go out after being true for 7 years-don,t understand- the rep checked it, said he would have to send it back to he factory- I was without for a few weeks which was a drag, but got a freshee & was a happy boy again.I have a couple "Smith" levels I bought to put on the wall-these babys are laminated walnut & maple with stainless edge & end protectors. I was told they were hand made in Arkinsaw(sp).Anyone know if they are still around or where I could purchase from?I set a mantle with my 3' Smith- The GC was talkin shit about me spending $65 on a 3' level & broke out his smart level to show how "great" my Smith was- I know it was dumb luck, (well some luck anyway!) but his smart level registered the mantle dead nuts on the money- he didn't say much else that day

9. 
   Jeff_J._Buck | Mar 24, 2001 06:18am | #13

   *so....with any level.....check it! My Dad got me in that habit when I was about 10. Levels and framing squares....only takes a second. Jeff

10. 
    Steve_Zerby | Mar 24, 2001 02:48pm | #14

    *I like my 4-year-old 6-foot Stabila, but the level vial has gone a little off. I've been putting off sending it back for replacement because I use it every day. I've got marks on it to indicate which way it is off, but only my intuition tells me how far towards the line the bubble has to be in order to really be level. I wish it had sharp edges like the Levelution so it would be a better straightedge.After that, the one I reach for the most is my cheap 2-foot johnson.One of the guys I work with has a Levelution set, but I don't like it. The vials don't agree from section to section sometimes. Depends on how well you get the sections aligned when assembling it.Sooner or later I'm going to get one of those Robo thingies. Any thoughts on the RoboVector vs, the spinning one?StevePS: Why so many levels, Joe?

11. 
    Francis_Voignier | Mar 24, 2001 04:37pm | #15

    *The Stabila sales rep picked-up a 4' level and threw it like a javelin at the far end of the parking lot. It bounced off the asphalt and landed flat like well, a dead level. Beside the scrapes and the nicks that showed many a trip to the parking lot, the thing came back to tell us the virtues of german engineering: dead accurate! The bunch of us who had watched, went straight to the counter to gladly give our dough to the Reich.The Robolaser is a fine tool as well. I just installed 3 30'X 96' greenhouses; leveling was a breeze and an easy one man operation.fv

12. 
    Art_B | Mar 24, 2001 04:52pm | #16

    *Dumb DIY answer, but like Mike, etc. have said, just turn it around. I get so lazy I've not adjusted any of my levels for years (except transit), just got into the habit of taking measurements both ways, but thn I don't do it 100 times a day.

13. 
    Bill_Hartmann | Mar 24, 2001 05:07pm | #17

    *GregI did a google search for "Smith Levels". The problem is those very common names. But the first one was a JLC thread that gives contact information for Smith and Crick levels.http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/webbbs/tools/webbbs_config.pl?read=1412

14. 
    Tom_Moller | Mar 25, 2001 08:12pm | #18

    *There are a couple of features that sometimes come in handy...If one side has a v-groove, you can rest it in curved surfaces like pipes, closet rods, handrails...If the vial has two sets of lines, one indicates level, the other indicates a slope (1/4 in per ft?) this is handy for drain pipes, rain gutters, and concrete forms.Holes or slots that allow you to hang it, tie it, hook it, etcStrong color in the liquid. The pale yellow found in many is hard to see under typical indoor incandesent lighting.

15. 
    Greg_Brown | Mar 25, 2001 08:57pm | #19

    *Bill,thanks a mill for the link-found what I was after-take a look at these sweet ones- thanks again, greghttp://www.cricktool.com/products.html

16. 
    Tremmelle_White | Mar 26, 2001 10:49pm | #20

    *I stumbled across this discussion thread, and I can only imagine how level or not mine is. I do have a question as long as we are on the subject. The level I have is a four footer. There are two viles in the center window. Only the top one indicates levelness, while the bottom one is way off to the side. If I flip it over, the other one then becomes acurate and so on. Maybe this is a dumb question, but what is that about? And why wouldn't they both show dead center if the surface is really flat? Thanks folks.Tremmelle

17. 
    Mike_Smith | Mar 26, 2001 11:44pm | #21

    *tremelle... yours is the simpler one.. it uses bent vials to trap the bubble at the top of the bend..there is only one high point on this type of vial..the single vial is built (blown ) like a wooden barrel so it is fatter in the middle.... the bubble is trapped at the high point, which is 360 deg. all around the vial

18. 
    blue_eyed_devil_ | Mar 27, 2001 12:11am | #22

    *Mike, I was going to ask you how that Robo stacks up against the PL3.I did notice a small disclaimer or something about working indoors with it. The light probably isn't visible outside.I still gotta go with my $5 torpedo. If I really need to know, I have a cheapie throwaway 4' (about $15) aluminum that is now several years old, and still true. I also have a magnificent magnesium 8' level that I pull out when I'm trying to impress someone.I also can re-calibrate any level in one second or less if I have a known plumb surface to check against. I just put the out of whack level against the known true surface and make a pencil mark on the bubble vial. Now I know that the bubble has to be at that mark to have a true plumb (or level) surface.If any of you guys want to see how sensitive your levels really are, try checking your level on two screws. Notice how much your bubble will move with each turn of the screw.blue

19. 
    Mike_Smith | Mar 27, 2001 12:46am | #23

    *blue.. i haven't seen the robo.. just the ads..i'll check them out if i generate a little more work... things are pretty slow...the market has wiped out a lot of projects that people had planned.....fall back on repairs and replacement....

20. 
    Ron_Budgell | Mar 27, 2001 12:57am | #24

    *I'm with Joe on this. The level I use most is a cheap 4' plastic Johnson. As well as being as accurate as anything else and damn near indestructible, it won't leave a mark on a painted wall like most aluminum levels do and if, some day, it walks away from a job without me or somebody drives a truck over it, what've I lost? Not enough to make me weep, that's for sure. I was checking levels a few weeks ago. The thickness of a playing card under one end makes a visible diference in the bubbles of most of mine. The Johnson needs a pair. Ron

21. 
    blue_eyed_devil_ | Mar 27, 2001 01:30am | #25

    *Mike...Slow?!!!! I thought the market was booming everywhere but here.Now I know why you've had so much time to post here...I've had my slowest winter in many years. Sales are doing well now for many builders and according to the forecast things will be about the same. I'm not so sure about that however.Repairs and replacement...that's the ticket. Everyone that decides to not build new, remodels. That should be good news for remodelers like yourself. Lowered interest rates should help that too.blue

22. 
    James_DuHamel | Mar 27, 2001 06:18am | #26

    *I still use my 5 year old Hayes Mason's level. Tough as can be, and always accurate. I think it cost me $30.00, and came with a case. Seems like a lot of people here are still using the less expensive levels. If it works, and works well, why not?James

23. 
    mike_tramontin | Mar 29, 2001 01:19am | #27

    *Mike:I couldn't help adding to your comments about various laser tools out there. My recommendation to determine the value and playback for a laser tool is to compare same basic attributes. What's the quality of information you're getting? What are the primary applications? Evaluate the beam size and brightness at distance. How is the dampening? Does the beam bounce around as you move it from place to place? How bright is the pivot or down beam? Where do you go in a couple years time if you need service? Your local service center or China?

2. 
   Jim_Randall | Mar 29, 2001 01:19am | #28

   *
   I need solid information from professionals about levels. I would like a recommendation on an all-around 48" durable spirit level that is good for finish work. There is a strange collection of cheap looking levels out
   there, help!