Hi,
Have a 17 yr. old who is finding more interest in 40 oz. and cigarettes than anything “real” Hey I was exactly the same way and you can add more to that list so I understand his frustration. I had big dreams but no one to give me a road map. Dad died when I was 8 mom was struggling to make ends meet and had no idea what would interest me.
I got turned around by among other things the Whole Earth Catalog. If your not familiar with it it was just a resource for EVERYTHING! Access to Tools the sub title. Huge tons of articles and reviews of books about everything. I saw my first Milwaukee tool in an article and was intrigued. What the heck is that for?
Anyway..Is there anything/books like that could get a kid turned onto learning?
Or…
How are you turning kids onto “life”? My work situation doesn’t allow me to drag him along and he’s still at the stage of if I show him he won’t dig it. I get him tools every Christmas and B’day but he seems toi scatter them.
Thanks,
Cor.
Replies
if you liked and used the whole earth catalog......and could get him to read, there's some interesting thinking to be had in the Foxfire series of books. However, maybe you need to investigate where his interests might be. Could be a better tool to be had knowing what might grab his brain.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
You could get a half-dozen subscriptions to magazines on a variety of subjects, not all of which need be technical in nature. New Scientist and Mother Jones meet that criteria. Mags are a fun easy visual way to absorb information. Your son may stumble on a passion somewhere in there.
I love the Foxfire series. There's an excellent description of how to make and run a still somewhere in there. Rabun County shine!
http://www.OMEGA.org
My oldest daughter Niko who is now 29 read a book I gave her when she was maybe 13 called "Grist For the Mill" by Ram Dass.....seems as though it worked for her.She followed the path big time creating good for human kind in her now adulthood.
You might wanna give it a look see.
Also...Helen and Scott Nearing were also one of my big inspirations..
Have yer yungin' read "Living the Good Life" by them.
Living up in NH and Vermont and building huge stone walls around vegtable gardens into their 80's.
Be well
Namaste'
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
So, a Whole Earth Catalog reader, huh? Me, too. But I lost my copy.
What was that story that was written in it, serialized in little exerpts down at the bottom right of the right hand pages?
That catalog, and Zap Comics, is all I can recall reading back in the daze of my youth.
Don't know if it got me started on anything, though. But I really did learn a lot from the Catalog.
If you're thinking of the one in the Last Whole Earth Catalog, it was Divine Rights Trip, featuring a young man named David Ray (IIRC) from Kentucky his old lady Estelle and his VW bus Urge. And lots of dope."There are some nights when the wolves are silent and the moon is howling."
Edited 12/18/2004 4:16 pm ET by Uncle Dunc
Wow! Unc. How'd you remember that? Still got your well-thumbed copy? I must have been doing way too much boogie back then. In my recollection, the story went something like saint George and the dragon.
But you're bringing some of it back, now. The bus, with a name. The guy's old lady, Estelle. Yeah.
And who was the editor? Some hippie named Stewart something-or-other? Right?
Other parts I remember are DR and Estelle hooking up with a weirdo who had intentionally forgotten his name. He was on his way back to the university in Oklahoma where a dissertation in the university library was the only remaining document that tied him to his name and he intended to steal and destroy it. Estelle thought forgetting your name was BS, because people have to call you something and she'd just as soon people called her Estelle as DR's old lady.There was also a scene about a guy who made his living giving advice. May have been the same weirdo from Oklahoma. One person who came to him for advice was a black guy from Dothan, Alabama who had struck it rich doing something and didn't know what to do with his money. The advice giver advised him to hire 500 other black guys, outfit them all in sharp black suits, complete with black hats and canes and send them all to Dothan where they would arrive on the same day, trickle into town one at a time, just walk around town, look in shop windows, not speak to each other.Towards the end, Estelle split. DR moved back to Kentucky, lived on the old home place, raised rabbits. He was planning to rehabilitate the land with rabbit manure, first the farm, then nearby strip mines, then the whole state. He gets in touch with Estelle and they get back together and get married. Lots of their friends come to the wedding, including his good buddy The Flash, who dresses all in silver. I had to Google to remember it was The Anaheim Flash. I don't remember if The Flash performed the ceremony or was just a guest.The editor was Stewart Brand. He wrote a book in the last ten years or so called How Buildings Learn that was reviewed in FHB.
take a look here:
http://www.howies.co.uk/
i've bought loads of stuff from them and they have really got the right attitude to life etc....
they are part of a growing bunch of people who are involved in what is know as authentic business.
http://www.authenticbusiness.co.uk/
I dont know you or what you do, but I want to express that I have no intention of disrespecting you or insulting because your life could be so different than any of us could imagine without more information, but I thought I would point out a few things that came to mind just while reading the thread.
Everyone is coming up with good solutions of things, but is this a band aid or a solution. I dont know of single things that I had or didnt lead to my situation or what I feel may be a life purpose. (or even a job) I havent found that yet and I feel half in the grave.
Other than the work you do, what are you interested in. Does most of your time, energy go to making money/career. Do you have anything you love? Do you come home and talk about work negatively, or sit in front of the tube and drink a few beers?
He may be rebelling what you do, or he may be feeling like nothing out there is worth the struggle because as soon as you stop being a kid life is just about paying the bills. We all find out how hard it is, but I dont know how many of us find true calling. Some would say that responsibility can make people grow up, but I think thats risky to force someone into. ex- if he had a kid or a house to pay for those things would be a reason to get a job or things to be interested in.
I think it sounds like your son is normal, I dont think that I was interested in things, except to own, until I was probably 21? I think it went freedom, girls, material goods, then real. I went straight to college after HS, but it was on a deal. My parents said, while I was probably a junior, you have choices: military, on your own, or college. I picked college for 9 years and I still dont know what its about. I went from wanting to be a beach bum to 3 bachelors, a terminal masters(meaning there isnt a Doctorate), to a college professor, to owning a specialty interiors business. But I still have dreams, Im not doing what I currently think I love, but at some point I think life will get in the way like everyone, but I held them all off longer.
Take one risk maybe and decide which to do. I think if you think your son respects you, tell him or somehow show him how disappointed you are in the smoking. Or TELL him to quit (or if your partner is closer to him). dont suggest. dont wish. Thats a tough call though, cause it goes against what I have mentioned if he is a rebel. It depends on the relationship with him, youll have to judge, and a lot of kids stop after a few years.
I hope that this helped somewhat, Id be happy to respond, and hope I didnt offend.
-zen
Edited 12/18/2004 3:51 pm ET by zendo
Hey Zendo
I hear ya bro ...but.....this is a good thread no matter what anyone comes up with including your post. Can be more interesting than most.
Its about Dharma....ones journey through life at any age.Real good to hear about what other people have been inspired by."NO ONE" can lead you....they can only offer you, and this is the gift of Chai, chi, Ki......"life force".To have some sharp tools can only help, and if you don't want them today.....at least they are in your favorites/bookmarks for the future when all becomes beyond confusing. Hence ones meditation practice~
Be a library of information/wealth : )
Namaste'
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
No doubt this is a good thread....
I apologize, I kind of rambled there, but to sum it, I think parents/elders often put the weight on youngsters that we ourselves inadvertently model. Then we as adults wonder why they act as such.
Also, I think it has always been that as I age, the things that are material that interest me are always financially unattainable. As I get older the things have become more expensive... leading to sometimes feeling hopeless, like whats it all worth. When those things can be as necessary as a home. Hence an overwhelming feeling, and lack of motivation.
zendo
I think the feeling I get from you is that you've connected $$$$wealth to $$$$$....yet on the other hand from the original question here....how to help a kid futher their interests I get that the words become mixed up as well as joined up which is whats good about this thread.I have yet another idea (oiy vey)....let the kid concerned join in here or where ever.There are so many variables....a term I use with my kids and life in general is, "one thing leads to another". BAsically what youre talking about.Since you wanna quote John....let me quote Paul..."Let it be" and my main man Ram Dass...."Be here now"....but within all that we all need guidence and that guidence needs to come from our hearts and souls.through true love...not through our egos and expectations (egos). I think you said that somewhere within your words.Look at A.S Neil who started Summerhill....one of my heros.If you need to dance...than do it well...free form....yet one thing as an elder that I learned is to learn your boundries.....otherwise creativity can vanish in a flash as it has for too many creative talented loving people.So lets teach boundries...."by example".
Lets also teach how we are "all" vulnerable". Dont hide that from your kids, friends, family.
BE honest and out front.Jolie came into my room the other day and smelled smoke....told me I was smoking....I don't smoke tobacco.....she sort of attacked me and put me on the defensive.....so I denied it even though at this point I didnt really hide it.Went into her room and told her she was right and that I was sorry for lying to her....we spoke a long time about it...was a great experiance. She trusts me now more than ever.I dont smoke all that much but I do smoke.she laughed and said to me.."so my Dad smokes.......out of a deer antler". (I found it in the woods years ago and made it into a pipe.We had a long talk about the ins and outs of what goes on all around us.
BE real honest!
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, Ill hit you back but Im in a rush at the moment... Ill contemplate in the meantime.
'want nothing' , isnt that the Zen way?
Maybe this kid is onto something....
-zen
I think the best thing you can do for young people is respect them enough to let them find their own way. Be available to answer any questions, maybe guide them a little when they ask, but most of all, support their adventure. Their trek.
Screwed up enough of my own life. Sure don't feel qualified to screw up anyone else's. Have a hard enough time making things plumb, and square, and strong.
Each person has to look within. It's hard to find your calling when you are looking for approval from others. I think periods of prolonged introspection are a healthy part of a fulfilling life - whenever they come. No reason a 17 year old can't benefit from a stretch of what adults might consider a "lack of interest".
Hi,Thanks for the input...I should have clarified he's not my son....room mates. So my input is limited.Never the less. I know it takes just one small spark to start something. Whole Earth Cat. had just so much to offer. I recall being stoned and thumbing through it and pretty soon my interests were expanded. Who was the guy with all the tools? Baldwin I think. He had that great rig with all the stuff.I got turned on to A Pattern Language via the WEC. Only book to deserve an entire page! My archetecture library was based on what I saw in it .Llyod Kahn, Ken Kern that whole gropu of alternative builders.Possibly Hunter S. Thompsons "high water mark where the wave broke- and rolled back."I gotta find a copy of that....Cor.
How are you turning kids onto "life"?
At 17? I doubt there is anything you can say ,teach or preach to a guy this age that will do much good........sounds negative, but this is the age when the natural "breaking away" takes place. He tests his own waters etc.
What I do...........is give them respect, try to be an example and don't take no sihit off them.
You need to train a child when they are young.......now, for this kid, he will have to experience and learn on his own. ..........respect begets respect.......he will learn from observation
Jim and jj,
I think thats what I figure as well.
Oh one thing I think you can get away with is to leave something 'around' that you think will have an impact... I could drop 20 titles here, but even if they are 'self help' they would be things that have interested me.
ex: Andy, Ram Dass would probably turn off 3/4 of the people on this site, but he works for you.
Another thing that I finally realized last night was that I am more inspired by movies and things in movies than I ever have been by books. No doubt I have a huge reference collection, but I think the original idea has come from movies. It was my further research that guided me to books.
Lastly when I was younger, people 'real' people inspired me.
anywho...
Where are you located? City or country? Does he seem to like working with tools? I think most kids that age would like to do something hands-on and meaningful. How about helping him find a job with a builder? Maybe Habitat for Humanity, or something similar. If he could do some real work with a mentor and a good team he might start to see more meaning in life.
Or...I hear the National Guard is hiring...
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
40 oz. is the most cost effective way to buy beer other than a keg kid's showing a lean toward fiscal responsibility tough age, can kind of point them and make suggestions, but he has to do it himself
nice to see so many guys interested in helping a kid my brother's going through the same w his 15 yr old, minus the beer and cigs my nephew is screwing off big time in school and has turned pro at "tweaking" his dad kid dyed blonde streaks in his hair, we might have to buy him a '60 corvette so he can drive Route 66 for several days was told to move the grille from front of house to the rear it moved an addtl. 3 or 4 feet ea day guess he was pacing himself
was there when bro calmly explained the installment plan wasn't working and he wanted grille moved to rear of house now nephew says" i don't have to take this abuse" waited for smoke to come out of bro's ears, instead, he calls number one son into room, shows him 2 suitcases tells him to take his pick, pack his stuff, and call the sheriff's dept. to get a ride for his newly emancipated self don't know how i kept a straight face, kid's eyes got real big, disappears to another part of house grille relocated itself to back of house
well, that put that fire out, but everything else remains the same
The more I think about it..The WEC was subversive in it's attitude to do-it-yourself. It seemed to advocate alternative lifestyles and offered the alternatives. It allowed me to be a rebel and find other creative motivated people who were working it out with the tools presented. I became a carpenter due largley to what I learned from WEC. I decided to be a craftsman instead of a "professional" and that was plenty rebelious in my family. No need to dye my hair or pierce myself or get tatoos. Rebelion has taken the form of culture, probably always has, but now as in the '50's the lack of alternatives leads to a angnst and more interest in soothing those feelings chemically than by work or travel or learning. WEC spawned WEReview which never did it for me. It also was the nucleous for one of the first web communities back in '85 The WELL ( Whole Earth 'Lectronic Linkup") which for money is a bunch of elitist Berkley self promotors wrapped in esoterica like Ollie North in the flag, but little of use. The youth spawned from that era seems wholey self absorbed if the current culture is any indication. I'm not indicting an entire generation and may be suffering from early onset of oldfartness but I'm not seeing any indications the dreams of a generation are alive anywhere around here.Like I said I always felt it was subversive enough to become as self sufficient as possible and I thought that was idea. I'm finding little sources for channeling these feelings in a creative way.But I'm still looking.......Cor.
See Corrado, You are the inspiration.... just being around, and thinking about this kid coming from what I think you referred to as a 'self absorbed generation'.
How cool is that ? lol
If you want to learn to communicate with him better, it also can add to your business and negotiations, check out "seven habits of highly effective people" by Stephen Covey. Its a couple of years old, but the concepts are some of the best I have seen. You can get it on cd or tape if youd rather listen.
-zen
for a different take on the generations, i'm up in Stockbridge MA a few years back for a james taylor concert at tanglewood hadn't been there for a while guess there's always been money in that area, but it was hippie heaven and home to "alice's restaurant" way back
i'm looking around and realizing it's the consumate yuppieville now a corral for saabs, peugeots, suv's and beamers everyone is dressed up like a poodle; you have to be a mayflower descendant to qualify entry into the upscale restaurants there's a boutique for every purpose, and this is happening everywhere
just an observation, the hippie generation is now more materialistic than their parents ever dreamed of can see it every day just driving around and going into the mcmansions to estimate jobs i feel bad for kids today because a lot of opportunity that was here is now gone we've exported entire industries and it will be harder for them to take their place than it was for their parents but they have to step up to bat like we all did i wouldn't worry too much about your friend's kid help him out as you can, he'll snap out of it
hopefully he's drinking upscale 40 oz.'ers so he can be a yuppie
Stockbridge has always been upscale, at least since I grew up in So. Egremont in the 60s. I think pretty much everywhere in South Berkshire County is a haven for monied folks, just wasn't so obvious to us when we were younger, Ed.
Saw lots of great musical acts at Tanglewood when I was in high school. Great venue.
you nailed it Jim it's so... obvious the money is dripping everywhere, but i don't think it was that bad going back 20 yrs ago read article that they got rid of the pop music concerts last couple of years due to pressure from its classical patrons, if that's an indicator or maybe we're getting older than dirt
saw Sinatra at tanglewood few years before he passed away, great show, great memories sat on the lawn pouring wine out of the first bottle by the second, the glasses were gone and we were drinking from the bottle what a great lady she's barred from there now i was lucky enough to have my fake ID from college w me
saw james taylor there several times last time 4 or 5 years back, went with a friend, brought chaise lounges and a cooler, smoked cigars the whole night he had a big plan for following year to bring a shopping cart in his pickup, strap our chaise lounges on it, supplies in it, flashlight on the front and wheel our way to the green ...like homeless people
maybe i'm not gentrified enough for that venue