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?? Whole house surge protector ??

JTC1 | Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on November 6, 2008 04:06am

In these uncertain financial times, DW and I have purchased our future retirement home – will be moving in 10 or so years – meanwhile the property will be rented and we have our first tenant – the real estate agent who sold us the house.

Current SEP is the infamous Federal Pacific 150A model.

We are upgrading the service to a 200A Square-D ASAP.

The neighborhood is all the way out at the end of a penninsula and is subject to frequent power outages.

We are debating the merits of a whole house surge protector which installs in the SEP.

Any experience with a model to fit a Square D? 

If the surge protector “blows”, does it shut down the power to the whole house like the plug in model connected to this computer and have to be manually reset? This could be a disaster if it were to blow on a Friday night while we were gone for the weekend – no power to oil furnace, freezers, etc.

Thanks for any insight!

Jim

 

Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
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Replies

  1. DanH | Nov 06, 2008 04:21am | #1

    My understanding is that if they "blow" they just turn on or off a light on the unit. Then they need to be replaced.

    When they handle a "normal" transient they don't blow -- they just shunt the transient to ground. No reset necessary. It's only when they get hit with a super-duper transient that they blow.

    Conscience is the still, small voice which tells a candidate that what he is doing is likely to lose him votes. --Anonymous
    1. JTC1 | Nov 14, 2008 03:33am | #20

      Thanks to all who replied.

      Dan - that is the answer I was hoping for - no reset unless the unit is fried, and in that case the appliances would probably be fried also.

      JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

      1. DanH | Nov 14, 2008 03:36am | #21

        The unit can fry without the appliance frying, if it "sacrifices" itself to save the appliance. This is why it's good to check the lights on the things occasionally.
        The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable. --John Kenneth Galbraith

        1. JTC1 | Nov 14, 2008 04:06am | #23

          I bungled that reply.

          Assuming there was no whole house surge suppressor - the appliances would have fried.

          Frying the whole house suppressor would be the less expensive alternative.

          Thanks again.

          JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

          1. DanH | Nov 14, 2008 04:13am | #24

            Yep.
            The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable. --John Kenneth Galbraith

  2. Jay20 | Nov 06, 2008 06:01am | #2

    Some power companies will install a whole house surge suppressor under the meter. They will charge a fee but will cover the deductible on you insurance if you have a surge or lighting strike. Some surge units you can have an electrician install take  most surges away and don't shut down. They have a counter on them that lets you know the number of surges they have handled. If a major surge occurs such as a lighting strike on the line the unit has fuse like devices inside that blow. If that occurs the surge was big time. An indicator on the unit will show what is blown and the fuse like devices are replaceable.

    1. User avater
      jarhead2 | Nov 12, 2008 05:46pm | #9

      That is what we have.

      Our power company installed a unit under our meter.

      They just pulled out the meter, plugged the surge protector in and then reinstalled the meter.

      IIRC they will replace anything that dies as a result of surge that has a motor......

        

       

       

       

      “Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”                Reagan....

      Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote

      1. DaveRicheson | Nov 12, 2008 06:18pm | #10

        How does your poco charge for thier whole house surge protector?

        One shot billing or a monthly fee?

        1. User avater
          jarhead2 | Nov 12, 2008 09:11pm | #11

          One shot billing or a monthly fee?

          Hmmmmmm

          DW pays the bills.

          So I go hunting. Notice that it isn't per month as it had been in the past.

          LOL, DW says we still pay per month. Current bills don't back that up........

          So I go through and look in the file, a letter dated Oct 07' which states they are terminating their surge protection service due to the lack of participation. But Alabama Power will at their convenience come and remove the surge protector from the meter base......

          By the way, it is still installed as of today.

          We "were" paying $5 a month for this insurance and device.

          I read the contract and it "had" covered all motor driven appliances and resistance-heat appliances from damaging surges up to $10,000 per incident.

          Covered refrigerator, washing machine, dryer, water heater, range, central heating and cooling system, and other motor driven/resistance heat appliances in the home. (from the contract).

           

          Just a rough estimate showed us paying about $420 in total payments for something that was terminated by them. Was it worth it? I don't know, looking back I would almost say no. It was good insurance but now I have nothing to show for it except the satisfaction that if something "did" occur it would have been covered.

          Now we need to look at other options like surge strips in the house.

          I could have already paid for those.............  :-) 

           

           

           

          “Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”                Reagan....

          Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote

          1. DanH | Nov 12, 2008 09:35pm | #12

            About 25 years ago we had a behind-the-meter protector installed. IIRC, we paid for it with a monthly payment (something like $6) for a limited period of time -- a year or 18 months. The unit is still there, though I have no idea how effective it is. I can say we haven't had obvious lightning-caused damage come in on the power lines since it was installed (though we did have one case of damage over the phone line and one case over the TV cable).I've since installed an in-the-panel unit. Belt and suspenders.
            The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable. --John Kenneth Galbraith

          2. User avater
            jarhead2 | Nov 12, 2008 10:03pm | #13

            LOL

            Yeah, my luck I'll get hit tonight! 

             

             

             

            “Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”                Reagan....

            Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote

          3. DaveRicheson | Nov 13, 2008 12:26am | #14

            We had a similar program offer a few years ago.

            I figured up the annual cost and decided I could pay an electrician (and I are one) to put one on the panel.

            was just courious how other pocos ran the program.

            BTW, they likely won't bother to take it out as long as you stay current with your bills. They will get it if they ever have to do a cut-off. Stay current and it is a free device, you just don't have the insurance anymore.

          4. User avater
            jarhead2 | Nov 13, 2008 02:32am | #15

            Stay current and it is a free device, you just don't have the insurance anymore.

            Well we have never been delinquent.

            We are selling the place in the spring, maybe it could go with me?  LOL

            Put it on the other house. 

             

             

             

            “Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”                Reagan....

            Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote

      2. Jay20 | Nov 13, 2008 06:07am | #16

        I think the agreement our power company offers is they will pay the deductible on the home insurance up to $1000.00. This is if the surge comes through any source.

        1. User avater
          jarhead2 | Nov 13, 2008 10:08pm | #18

          Ours wouldn't cover every source, just the power side of the house.

          No phone, cable, etc.....

          If lightening hit and came through your cable or phone line I wouldn't expect a power company to be responsible for something that was beyond their control. IMO. 

           

           

           

          “Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”                Reagan....

          Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote

          1. Jay20 | Nov 14, 2008 03:54am | #22

            I can understand the reasoning. Our Electric Utility covers no matter if the surge comes in the phone line, cable, ect. That is one of there selling points.

          2. User avater
            jarhead2 | Nov 14, 2008 05:26am | #25

            That is awesome they do that......

            I'd keep that protection if I had it offered here. 

             

             

             

            “Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”                Reagan....

            Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote

  3. DaveRicheson | Nov 06, 2008 04:23pm | #3

    http://www.intermatic.com/images/news/Whole%20House%20Surge%20Protection.pdf

    I work for a utility company. We have surge protection on a 3500 amp service to our main data center, and it has never "blown".  It is a little beefier version than your typical whole house model, but made the same basic way. I think the last time I looked it had counted close to 100 surges.

    I think you would be safe with installing one and not worrying about it taking out the service to the house while you are away.

    1. peteshlagor | Nov 06, 2008 05:18pm | #4

      What size are these things?  Where do they get installed?  If one has a finsihed wall and the panel recessed, can they still be installed?

       

      1. DanH | Nov 06, 2008 05:41pm | #5

        One style installs like a double-pole (240V) breaker. Another style installs on a knock-out, kind of like a doorbell transformer. Then of course there's the behind-the-meter style.I have a behind-the-meter unit that I think is an old (slow) gas discharge type, and a double-pole-breaker style unit in our Square-D panel.
        Conscience is the still, small voice which tells a candidate that what he is doing is likely to lose him votes. --Anonymous

      2. DanH | Nov 06, 2008 05:45pm | #6

        With the breaker-style units, they're supposed to be installed in the top-most slot, nearest the main. But I couldn't do that easily so I put ours in an available slot near the bottom. You lose some effectiveness that way, but it still gives you maybe 90% of the protection you'd get the "right" way.It's still a good idea to have point-of-use protectors for sensitive equipment.I've had equipment damaged due to surges over the phone line and over the TV cable (before I installed surge protectors on those), but never due to power line surges, that I've been able to tell.
        Conscience is the still, small voice which tells a candidate that what he is doing is likely to lose him votes. --Anonymous

  4. User avater
    xxPaulCPxx | Nov 06, 2008 08:06pm | #7

    You can also just install surge breakers specificly for rooms like the office or living room with the expensive electronics.

    Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
    Also a CRX fanatic!

    Tu stultus es

  5. gfretwell | Nov 07, 2008 06:55am | #8

    When you install your new panel be sure the ground electrode system is good. I would drive another rod anyway and connect it in addition to what you have. Then be sure all of the providers are using the same electrode system your panel uses and that they have entry protectors. There should be protectors on every wire coming into your house, all connected to the ground electrode system.
    If you can get everyone on the same ground and stop the surges at the entry point your stuff inside will last a lot longer. I would still have point of use protectors, protecting all inputs at the TV, computers and any phone with a power cord.
    I am in South Florida and I never unplug anything in a thunderstorm
    This plan works for me

  6. reinvent | Nov 13, 2008 06:32am | #17

    Here is another company to look at.

    http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/Default.aspx

    1. User avater
      jarhead2 | Nov 13, 2008 10:10pm | #19

      That is what I need, that RGPC houseguard.......

       

      Wonder what they cost? 

       

       

       

      “Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”                Reagan....

      Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote

  7. User avater
    Jeff_Clarke | Nov 14, 2008 06:39am | #26

    We have several of these MOV-based Leviton surge supressors at multiple panels, including the 2x150A mains:

    View Image

    these are wired in this configuration:

    View Image

     

    The UL 1449 second edition rating for surge protectors includes the following:

    • Thermal fuse protection against protector meltdown
    • Protectors safe against catastrophic overvoltage
    • Protectors safe against leakage or shock after damage
    • Must survive a minimum of 2 3,000Amp and 20 500Amp surges
    • Must protect Line-Neutral, Line-Ground, Neutral-Ground
    • A new test that connects the protector to 125% of normal voltage for 7 HOURS
    • A simulated loss of neutral test, a 120V protector will be subjected to 240V.

     

    Jeff

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