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Anyone out there have any direct experience either with owning and using or installing and/or servicing whole house vacuum cleaner/central vacuum systems?
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The house I grew up in had a central vac. As of today, this would be 86 year old technology. It was a source of wonder (and fear!) for me as a child. But I don't recall it ever breaking down (but then, I have no memory of ever seeing the dirt emptied from it either!) and it seemed to do a good job on the carpets. Probably not enough "outlets" though. Instead of hauling around a vacuum, you had to haul around a
b lot
of hose! Storing the hose was a pain, too.
Rich Beckman
*i Storing the hose was a pain, too.Yeah. Tell me about it. I deal with that problem several times every day.
*I have installed a few as well as owned and maintained one. Now I am doing a reno on a small duplex I own and am using my shop vac as the heart of the system. The shop vac has the same horsepower as your typical home use central vac (would suck the warts off a witch)has a washable air filter and can be rolled outside for vehicle duty.You don't seem to have any questions?bake
*A central vac system is standard installation in new houses in Oz -- they also offer DIY kits for existing houses. If I remember 40' between points is normal, but I suppose you can have more if you want.The storage of the hose is no more a bother than storing a vacuum cleaner, they make a special 'tidy' that fixes to the back of a closet door, rather like the ones for a garden hose.Seems a good system -- the installation is very easy too.
*Easy to install. I think well worth the investment, especially if you have hardwood that may need frequent going over.If you have a closet that is central, think of placing an outlet in that closet. Keep the hose always plugged in and coiled in the closet, on a hanging rack, for example. Painless and quick.
*Bake..do you have a way to have a switch at the hose end, or do you have to run back and forth to the shop vac to shut it off
*Thats what kids were invented for.
*Yes Martagon, I used a small low voltage transformer and an 8 pin relay in a junction box that controls the plug by the vac, was cheap and easy.
*Bake,No I don't have any questions, specifically. I was interested in people's exp with specific manufacturers, features and the like. Which ones do people love or hate and why. I am familiar with Beam, Eureka, and NuTone, but there were a few others (VacuMaid,.. I had never heard of. Some were mostly metal, some were mostly plastic. Some had a cyclonic separation while others had filters.I am going to buy and install one, just narrowing down the field, if possible.IDG, Oz? I have the movie but I don't recall the use of a central vac?
*Bake,Can you tell me more about your system? We are building a house and I want to do this as well. I'm really mostly interested in having a couple outlets in the kitchen and mudroom to sweep dirt into, like those dustpans. Maybe the entrance too. I don't see it replacing a regular vacuum, but making it easy to quickly sweep up floors. What type of outlets do you have? Did you just use the ones from say Beam or NuTone or did you design your own? Where is the vacuum in relation to the outlets. I want mine in the basement with the outlets being on the main floorDid you use PVC to connect it all together? What size?Anything else you can add? How about pix. I saw the picture of the creative stairs you posted, so I KNOW you know how to do it! :-) Thanks!Paula
*For preferences, I like Beam for the vacuum unit itself, and Elextrolux for outlets, hose, and wands/attachments.
*Installed a Beam 2 years ago, retrofit. Had to have the hose fixed, bad switch, and the upright portion fixed, bad connection between rod sections, kept coming apart. Both Done under warrenty, but had to go where I bought to have done, can't go to any dealer. Beam wants a dedicated electrical outlet for the vacum, and the upright needs an electrical outlet too. Putting in the PVC is like any plumbing, except you don't have to be quite so exact. The beam site has the installation munual on it. Does need planning especially if a retrofit. Biggest problem I had was making the hole for the PVC to get from the basement to the first floor. Was going into a wall thru a finished ceiling. Putting a 2 1/4" (2 1/2?) hole in was quite the challenge with a hole saw 8" above a finished ceiling. Small house so only needed one outlet (30' hose)Don't believe the vacuum outlet is standard between manufacturers (least that's what I was told) but the piping is the same size. My purchase came with pipe, but had to buy a couple of fittings.If you want vacuum outlet to the outside, there are restrictions on pipe length I believe, but instructions should tell you. Can't remeber if the muffler was extra or not.
*Buy a VacuFlo. Have had one for 10 years and am now installing one in my new house. No bags or filters to change, no need to run plugs near vac outlet as vac head runs off the suction. Works great, no problems, hose is light (I have 2, one upstairs and one on the main level). installation is very easy and simple.
*Carl,Why 2? Wouldn't one cover an entire home?
*Interesting timing I am in the beginnings of a central vac investigation myself. Our investigation centers around is the central system we have had in place working as good as it should. (This wasprobably kicked off by the Kirby guy that came thru a month ago)We have Nutone system that is 15 years old in a 15 year old house.It has 3 outlets upstairs and 2 in the basement I added as we finishedit off. As someone earlier said the plumbing is easy and the wiring is low voltage. We don't have a electric run power head and the system came with no power head when we bought the house. We a bought a suction based power (Meile I think) that runs off of the air flow to turn the beater brush for carpets.My wife says the system doesn't seem to get the carpets as clean as they should.In my research so far. I have found that central vacs have an interesting fundamental difference for regulars in that they exhaustthe smaller particles to the outside rather than filtering them into abag. Seems potentially more efficient.But on the other hand after putting in my shop dust collection system and learning how much the length and number of elbows affect efficientair flow, I am beginning to wonder if they can match the portables inperformance.I am considering two things possible, a bigger main unit and a electrically powered beater brush head. This mean retrofitting my hoses and outlets. but what the hell.Sorry I haven't answered you questions but maybe raised some more that will be helpful.Am also interested in what others have learned.
*I bought a Vacumaid unit . The contractors supply where I bought it said that all the outlets were made by one or two companies . He has had several mfgrs. I used regular 2" pvc for my pipe runs . Also got one with outside exauhst. Put in more than one outlet "inlet" per floor I have one in each room . Just doing clean up from constrution with only a couple of the outlets hooked up I can see were only one would be a real pain. I have planed for one of those dust pans at each entry. Get the most powerful unit that you can,not always the most expensive . I think that you could run 1 1/2" pvc just fine as that would speed up the air flow and help move any rocks ,toys diamonds what ever to the catch bucket . I noticed that when I pulled the hose out of the socket that all the small rocks that were tumbling in the riser pipe rushed to the vac. Just too sum it up More outlets, MORE Power.
*Dave , I saw your post after I posted . The guy that I got my system from had several types of hose the ones with 110 volt wire to run a power head and without but you run a cord along the length of the hose 'tape or tywrap' or let hang loose to run the power head . that way you could just buy the power head use your old hose.
*> Why 2? Wouldn't one cover an entire home?I'm thinking that Carl means two hoses. That saves the trouble of carrying the hose up and down the stairs.Rich Beckman
*I did the same thing as Bake: use a high power shop vac that is switched by a relay. Get yourself a 16-24V transformer to power the low voltage side of a relay. When the hose is plugged in, it completes the circuit for the low-voltage side which in turn pulls the contacts closed for the 120V side. Put the whole works inside a large pull box and screw it to the wall next to the shop vac.If you don't know what a relay is, or don't know a bit about electrical safety, get someone who does.This works like a charm. I recomend exhausting the vacuum outdoors with a short length of ABS. Quieter, less dust circulated. I use shop Vac's large dust bags inside the canister.All parts, except the switching stuff, are available at HD although I wasn't impressed with the noise of the Nutone power head.Good luck,Scott.
*DaveA central vac is nothing like a shop dust (chip) collector system. A vac system is a high suction, low volume systems. The dust collector is a low suction, high velocity system. So losses in elbows is a very small part of the system.I have a 22 year old FASCO system. They are not in that business anymore and I think that the unit was made by Beam, but not sure.Anyway the dust collection system is the PITA. It uses a detachable bottom can for the dirt and a cloth filter that stays in the top. And there is no way to get that filter out for cleaning except taking a dust bath. Look at the design and see how the unit is serviced. Some of the cyclone with external fine dust look like the way to go, but I have really studied them.BTW, there are some high Canadian made units that flush the dirt down the sewer. There is also a wet/dry central vac (may be the same one, forgot the company).I started out with a vac powered head and did not like the way that it worked. I felt that it used too much of the power and dog hairs clogged it. Whatever way you go install electric outlets next to the vac outlet so that you have the flexibility of going to the electric powered heads.And adding any electrical power cable to a vac hose SUCKS! And I don't mean a good vacum. Replace the hose with one with an intergal power cord.When placing the outlets keep them out of the way of furniture. Closets and halls are good places. A friend of mine has one in the baseboard under a builtin china cabinet.
*it's a colonial so it's easier to have a 30' hose upstairs (it's all carpeted with a loft)and one downstairs. It's only about $100 more for a hose so it's worth the money not to drag the hose up and down the stairs everytime the kids make a mess. If you have a ranch, then one hose would work.
*Bill, thanks a million your post got me thinking, Obviously there isa filter some where up in the unit, We emptied the lower collection unit but didn't think to reach up.Well I just did, and other that being covered in dust, guess what.Years worth of dog hair piled onto the screen filter 4 in deep.Won't the wife be happy I fixed it.Of course this lead to more thoughts and questions;When I reach up I felt a screen which acts as the next level of filter. It was made of wire mesh and felt a little wider than house screening. you don't suppose there is another filter beyond that. It would be beyond me how you would service it.On the comparison between dust collection and home vacs. I always suspected there was a more fundamental difference, thanks for the clarification.Which would you use for sanding, It seems like the shop dust collector works great for chip etc.( planer) but falls down whenconnected to an orbital sander. I usually connect that to the house vac.PS. my brother is using a shop vac as his central power vac. I get to wire it for him!
*Oops forgot to thank Tim for starting this thread.
*I think that screen is there just to keep anything way from the blower fins. I don't think that there is any more filters.i On the comparison between dust collection and home vacs. I always suspected there was a more fundamental difference, thanks for the clarification. i Which would you use for sanding, It seems like the shop dust collector works great for chip etc.( planer) but falls down when connected to an orbital sander. I usually connect that to the house vac. I use my shop vac with a Cleanstream filter.I don't remember the specifics, but I think that the dust that most affects the lungs is .1 to 5 microns. So you have to look at how each unit handles the fine dust. A basic shop dust collector with the woven bags let anything less thatn 50 micros through. But there are 3 rd party felt bags that are in the area of 1 -3 micros. And people with cyclone separators have added high efficiency pleated filters to their systems. So that would work with handle the dust. But I don't know if they have enough suction to be effective in removing dust.I hae no idea what the filter level is in your whole house vac, but what happens to discharge. Mine just into the garage. If I tried to use it much for sanding I would end up with a thick layer of dust.
*Tim, I have a NuTone and like it's function in every way. It's just that NuTone continues to make only really ugly stuff. For a vacuum, though, I don't care about looks.My recommendations:Vac-Pan in the kitchen for sweeping. It works great.Put an electrical outlet within a few feet of every vacuum outlet and you can save money vs. the combined power and vacuum in the same plug assembly.Put blocking above and below the piping for the wall plate to fasten to. I fastened only to drywall, counting on the piping to hold the wall plate securely. It doesn't, and when I revomve the vacuum hose, the wall plate works loose from the drywall.The outside exhaust works great.Install a couple of cleanouts in the ends of the lines. Just install a stub and cap and don't glue them in.You don't need every attachement. Consider what surfaces you need to clean and buy accordingly.To plan your system, take a rope the length of the hose and walk around your house checking the reach. You'd be surprized how few outlets you need. One in the garage is handy for the car.
*Tim I have now and am adding to the new house a central Vac system. The unit I have now is mounted in the garage,as while it has a muffler and exterior filter it still produces Dust. The system is over 10 years old and I did replace the Motor once. An easy job even for me 6 screws and its done. My friend owns a Vacuum store and does Central Installations. I E mailed him to find out what he thinks is the best System on the Market today. That by the way will be the One that he will install in The new House. The New unit will be Installed In the basement apparently the new generation of Central Vacs Produce little of no exhaust dust. I hope. At any rate it is still more Healthy and Convienantt in my opinion and I wouldn't be without it. And yes you will be surprised at how few outlets you really do need. George
*I have no carpet, but a lot of rugs, 4 dogs and 2 cats. Leaning toward the cyclonic, exhausted type with intergral power for the brush, not going to consider a separate outlet and cord.A while ago, I considered the rigged up shop vac and technically it would be no problem. My budget is not that tight.Thanks for the feedback.Tim
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Anyone out there have any direct experience either with owning and using or installing and/or servicing whole house vacuum cleaner/central vacuum systems?