*
I’ve been in the business for about eight years and have used plenty of different brand tools, and I’ve never had any problems with Dewalt besides breakdown from years of extended use. My 14 volt drill is about five years old and still my favorite, and I own three other brand drills, ranging from 12 to 18 volts. The table and compound miter saws are great, and my fixed base router is by far the best one I’ve used, Bosch a close second. I’m I alone here?
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CDD. I own no Dewalt tools. But I would not consider 8 yrs of use the mark of a tools life. I've still got the saw, drills, sawzall, router, and screwgun from 29 yrs ago. If you can keep a tool in operation with proper use/maintainance and parts are still available, then you've got a good tool. If you regularly are replacing cords, switches, bearings and the like, then maybe not. Then again, maybe I'm living in the past. Best of luck in your continued success.
*If they got the search engine working check it out you'll find a plethoria of people commenting about Default tools. Actually there not bad I think their customer service sucks.
*I love my Makita tools faults and all...I love my DeCrap too...BUT NOT ALL THEIR DEFAULTS!near the stream replacing a cord that was hardly used for just a few years!ajAnd DeCrap is too damm loud...they need to buy higher quality motors and bearings and cords...and switches.
*calvin, I'm only 27, so I'll get back to you in twenty years to tell you if the tools are still hang'n around.
*CDDDon't expect to repair those DeWalts in a few years - I've got Black & Decker machines (which DeWalt replaced several years ago) that I can no longer get parts for - B&D's "planned obselesence." Yet I can get parts for my Milwaukee and Rockwell (now Porter Cable) machines from the same vintage.
*That fixed base router of CCD's is one of the lucky old Elus that didn't get axed from the lineup, or changed. Its an Elu. I don't mind the cordless stuff, but it doesn't fit me.My main gripe about DeWalt (B&D) is...what is it? I can't quite put my finger on it, but it has to do with where their hearts are. Its about what they care about. I don't respect them, so I don't buy them, except for their new (Emglo) compressor. I couldn't resist it.
*No need to leave flowers on the headstone.
*What they are and where their hearts are????.....gee....yer right......now I'm following yer logic.....their tools suck.....makes perfect sense now! Gonna burn all mine.....suddenly they have had karma. Thanks for the explanation. Jeff
*Glad to help.
*Jeff, you're gonna end up a democrat yet. Best of luck. Wait till after Pete's, so you two won't have anything to talk about.
*CDD-It's the color! I'm nuts about the color! Bumble bee tools!Easy to find under all the sawdust. Two chop saws and one table saw get tons of work and the only problem has been the switches. Go Dewalt! Bob
*If a tool performs its intended purpose, does it well, feels good to use, and the tool lasts under heavy use/abuse, then it is a good tool. I don't care who made it, what brand name is on it, or how bad everyone else bashes it. If it serves me well, and lasts a long time, it is a good tool.Everyone has favorites. Just like sports teams, colors, food, etc... everyone has their own favorite tool, or brand of tools. I won a variety of brand names. They serve me well.James DuHamel
*well put James - I love all my tools
*A lot of it has to do with image and the breadth of the customer set. When you take out your drill and it's a HD unit in red and bare metal, just about everyone knows it's a serious, HD unit that cost plenty but returns good value; when you take out a yellow drill, no-one knows if it's the "pro" model, or the one they sell to homeowners to drill 4 holes a year. Worse than that, when you go to buy a yellow drill, it's hard to tell the differences looking at them in the store (sure, there's price, but what if one's just over-priced ? remember when Mustangs and Falcons were virtually the same car, except for a huge price difference ?). It's exactly the same problem B&D when they sold under the old brand when you get right down to it.The other problems (can't get older parts, early/repetitive failures of $1 components, etc.) were discussed elsewhere.
*James:You make a good point - in the end folks will buy what they are comfortable with and like on the job. The problem I have is that DeWalt is not a bargin - it is a mid-line tool priced at the high end. When I see a contractor with a DeWalt, I wonder if he or she really knows tools and how to buy them. And the customer ends up subsidizing the contractor's spending habits. When I see a contractor show up with a Hilti tool, I can generally surmize he is in for the long haul, is well established (you have to have a solid credit background to buy from Hilti - and you can only get Hilti from Hilti) and looks at tools as an investment, just like his transportation.If you have doubts about DeWalt, look at the latest Amazon tool clearance book. There are 39 -count them - 39 separate "reconditioned" DeWalt items - the next closest is Porter Cable at 16, Makita at 9, Bosch at 8 and Milwaukee at 2. Not a true statistical sampling but still very telling. During a visit to my local tool repair shop last week, the owner says he loves DeWalt - without the major breakdowns he sees every week, he wouldn't have the work backlog he currently enjoys. He states the powder metallurgically formed gears are not lasting - they have declined dramatically over the past few years - particularly since B&D converted all their professional tools to the DeWalt line. The really sad part is the demise of some great industrial tools once made by B&D like the HoleGun and the Macho hammer as examples.I'm convinced you can take a piece of cow dung, stick a cord in it, paint it some sexy color, give it a savy marketplace name and and half the folks wearing tool belts will race in to buy it - again with the poor customer subsidizing the contractors whim.
*Ed, that's an interesting interpretation of some strange data; just because Dewalt sells more reconditioned tools has nothing, or could have nothing, to do with the quality. Dewalt far outsells the other brands you mentioned, particularly at places like Home Despot. A recent article (4 months ago), in USA Today talked about the low margins for such places, since so, so many DIYers buy equipment of all sorts and take advantage of the generous return policies at these warehouses. The "data" you've provided is just that; nothing but basic raw information you've gleaned from a singular website, without any other supporting information. How do you know Amazon doesn't have a cozy deal with Dewalt? How do you know that since (according to Tools of the Trade), that Dewalt tool numbers far outweigh all others, there wouldn't be a correspondingly higher number of returns? Fact is, you don't. So everyone, quit your whining and bellyaching about Dewalt. If you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em.
*I guess I should pack it up and go back to selling cars......I obviously don't know anything about carpentry.....because I have some DeWalt tools in the van! Can I stay if I find that Hilti compound miter saw? The customer subsidizes the contractor.......really......do ya mind if I buy a little food with that subsidized fund too? Jeff
*Jason:I know because I grew up and live within miles of Black & Decker. Many of my friends either worked there or were suppliers to B&D. I watched a very proud, family owned company go from a power tool manufacturer to a consumer products company saddled with tremendous debt.I called on B&D's main tool plant - at the time the largest power tool manufacturing operation in the world. I sold and serviced motor steel that went into numerous tools made at the plant. I watched as their rejction rate hovered at 2% before they launched the DeWalt line.Over the past few years, I watched many top executives leave B&D; I've watched the numerous ads in the local papers for quality assurance technicians - far more than normal tunrover would account for.I listened as friends who sold various components to B&D - particularly the DeWalt operation - talk about how engineering specs were ignored in lieu of costs. I watched as once proud tool lines - McCullough, Master Power, the original DeWalt, Elu, Workmate and now Emglo get torn apart by B&D.As I pointed out in my post, the data I noted (which came from a catalogue, not a web site) is not based on good statistical analysis. Even if Amazaon has a deal with B&D, why so many "reconditioned" machines? If the big box stores accept returns for product that the customer doesn't like, that's the big box store's problem - those items are not turned back to the manufacturer - the stores move the returned items themselves. Reconditioned tools are many times just that - minor repairs on a machine that should have been made properly the first time.The bottom line - DeWalt is a nice medium duty machine that is over priced for its quality and duty rating. I've been involved with B&D for too long to simply say its sour grapes - recognize them for what they are - not a tool manufacturer but a consumer products company. Coffee maker anyone?
*Ed,I understand what you are saying. I really do. I just don't agree with it.You could basically say that if I bought a Mercedes, that I would be a better driver than the rest because I was in it for the long haul, and bought a car that would last. Never mind that I can't afford a Mercedes, or that it would be a terrible financial mistake for me to purchase one when I cannot afford it.Contractors must weigh the pros and cons of ANY purchase that they make to keep their business running. It is nice to own the top of the line tools, but not practical for most contractors. If every tool I owned was the most expensive, best of the best, then I would have to make a LOT of money just to pay for them. That is when the customer pays dearly for the contractor's purchasing whims. If I was drilling 1" holes in concrete all day, every day, then I just might invest in a Hilti. But for the times I DO need a percusiion drill, the one I have works very well. It has been put to the test, and still keeps on going like it was brand new. I buy the best tool I can, keeping in mind the amount of time I will be using it, dollar amount it costs, and what that cost means to my company. I also go for a tool that is comfortable to use, works well for the job it was intended for, and lasts. Brand name doesn't matter. Just my humble opinion...James DuHamel
*i and you can only get Hilti from HiltiAnd presumably Dewalt only comes from Dewalt; I'm missing your point.
*i When I see a contractor show up with a Hilti tool, I can generally surmize he is in for the long haul, is well established (you have to have a solid credit background to buy from Hilti - and you can only get Hilti from Hilti) and looks at tools as an investment, just like his transportation. Does anyone else have a HD with a huge Hilti section now? Downtown Seattle HD, (forgive me for knowing this) has been in the process of setting up a huge Hilti section. I'm going to miss that Hilti-rep, who would fix anything I had that was broken, on site. Even my Hitachi NR83's
*That Ed is kind of a tool elitist isn't he? I got every color tool and I like nearly every one or I'd dump em. Got 2 or 3 Yellow ones, sure hope I don't get passed over for any prestige jobs cause of em.
*Haven't strolled through lately, but they've had a couple of the big Hilti drills for some time - but all the specialty stores carry Hilti already, maybe our local market is different.
*Perhaps I am a tool elitist as someone mentioned but I try to get the best product I can for the price point. It's my background and training. And I'm acknowledging that DeWalt is a nice tool for many folks - but the data shows it's a mid-line machine with dubious quality.James - I'm not suggesting that ever tool be a Mercedes - only that when you do spend the money at a Mercedes level, you should get a Mercedes machine. For the price point of many DeWalt machines, you can get a a top of the line machine with a proven track record. If you're buying a DeWalt, you are spending Mercedes money for mid-size Ford or Chevy. Can small contractors afford to do that? I can't.As for Hilti in Home Depot, that is a trial balloon - they are really Hilti owned centers within HD with Hilti employees. Hilti has wisely decided to control everything themselves (I wonder why?)and simply rent space from HD. It is an experiment - and decisions will be made on the success of the venture. Hence Hilti is still sold only by Hilti, not Home Depot or Amazon or anyone else. Hilti is still a premium tool - I have both a Remington and a Hilti powder actuated track fasteners - everyone fights to use the Hilti - it's all cast steel, feels comfortable in your hand and absorbs the impact very nicely. But it is almost 4 times the cost of the Remington. My point is if you are doing this kind of work often, the Hilti machine makes sense. If I see someone who does this work routinely with a Remington, I begin to wonder because in the long run, the Hilti will be safer and more scost effective. And then I begin to wonder if the contractor really has his or her costs under control. I spent several years at the other end, trying to salvage businesses that were in over their head and invariably it was the little things that added up to disaster. Cost control is very important - know who makes your tools, why they do it and what the tool's track record is - it's an investment.
*Thanks for posting that information Ed. I'm glad to see that you weren't basing so much thought simply on the Amazon comment earlier. However, I must say that I also, to a certain extent, disagree with many of your conclusions. I see everything from Craftsman and Grizzly to Hilti and Metabo used on jobsites, and personally, I couldn't care less if they used rocks to pound nails, as long as the effeciency and quality of the work and job are there. I guess most of my customers feel the same way, since I generally don't lose jobs (as far as I know), because of the tools I use. Dewalt may not be the Mercedes of tools in your mind, but I see in most reviews they generally receive high ratings, and they haven't let me down, nor have I heard many complaints from others around here. Part of that is also because of the service and cost savings we receive from my local supplier, which is why I buy and use them in the first place. When they switch to a different brand, I might very well follow. As you can imagine, I don't put much stock in the whole "mercedes" theory, because should whatever tool break down, particularly where I work, it doesn't matter if it's the mercedes or yugo; I've still got to have it fixed, and the supplier delivers on this. Finally, remember my earlier comment; if you don't like 'em...don't buy 'em.
*Jason:I agree with what you say - but I also follow the old adage that "you are what your are because of past events." Several years ago in a commercial job, the drywall guys were no where to be seen. An hour later they showed up - when I asked where they had been, they said their boss had enough problems with their corded DeWalt drivers - he sent them out to buy all new Milwaukee drivers. He was tired of the downtime the DeWalts were causing on jobs.Last year in another commercial job that involved a boiler replacement, the mechanical contractor had a brand new SawZall - I asked him how he liked it. He led me to the back of his truck where he showed me a crate full of DeWalt recip saws and corded drills all with either burned-up motors or failed gear trains. He kept them for the next time the DeWalt field rep appeared - oddly enough they appear only to sell, not to service. The mechanical contractor said he lost quite a bit of time chasing weak, failing machines.What's really striking is that all this occurred with 15 miles of Black & Decker's headquarters and research/engineering center!As a customer to these two contractors, I want them on the job getting it done, not chasing tool problems. And they feel the same way - that's why they switched!Now these two applications were heavy industrial ones - and again I repeat my point - DeWalt's fine as a mid-grade machine but not in the heavy industrial applications required in some construction sites (even though DeWalt charges industrial prices). After all, most home buiilders today use materials such as spf studs - a worn out saw with a dull blade will cut spf! So DeWalts can be found in these applications. But go to commercial sites/heavy building sites - pier construction, post and beam timber frame home construction, building renovation - that's where you need the tough machines. Again, my tool repair guy says DeWalt is not built for those tough jobs and he has the shop full of broken machines to prove it. If your DeWalt is serving you well, great - but you could have saved some bucks and bought a nice mid-grade machine - including the Black & Decker branded machines and do just as well. But hey - it's only money!
*Thanks again for the response. I guess what I find interesting is people's response to Dewalt. When I read on these forums about problems with makita, or panasonic drills, or milwaukee, etc., people say, "oh, what a shame, maybe try taking it back to the dealer?" or something like that. But when people talk about Dewalt, they get downright PISSED OFF (Sorry about the language, Andy), which I don't quite get. Have that many people been burned that many times by service/quality, or is it something else? Perhaps what we should do is send a little message to Dewalt and tell them to read this thread.
*Boy, did I start one hell of a discussion! Didn't know it would get so heated. Good responses folks.
*Jason:I agree with you - all the manufacturers should be more open/responsive to the ultimate customers. And as you pointed out, that goes for all the manufacturers - not just DeWalt. Unfortunately, the big box stores provide a wonderful opportunity to move product and the tool companies see that. So the name of the game is volume - and they all want a piece of the action.If I can find them, I'll buy an older machine (if I'm in the market for a corded one) - I just bought an old Rockwell screwgun for $7 - works great, all metal housing - extra heavy duty. And if you can find an original DeWalt (radial saw, that is) buy it! It's worth some money!
*Good history lesson on B & D, Ed. I'm a believer of what he says. I've watched Porter Cable/Rockwell/Porter Cable do the same thing. It's the bean counters cashing in on planned obsolescence.I tend to take Aj's approach. Some of the stuff is probably good enough, some is crap. I personally don't own any yellow tools and don't anticipate buying any in the near future.Incidently, I'm going back to the Makita power saws. I gave Hitachi a shot and I think their saws are junk.blue
*Ed, I own several Hilti tools. I've got the Hilti powder actuated faster. It does work great despite the generic shots that I load it with. I have a hilti screw gun from the early 80's. I hated the Hilti nailgun so much I gave it away. I also hated the Hilti rep. He was just one of those b.s.ing salesguys that I hate to listen to.blue
*Ed, your comments about using better quality stuff, especially for heavier applications is good advice.I myself judge others by their tools. When I see and hear guys bragging about their mid grade tools and implying that they are superior tools, I begin to question their knowledge and skill about construction in general. The guys that overdo it by bringing in too big of tools fits into the same category...uninformed.This is not a slam at these guys, it's just an observation that their skills and experiences is limited. We are all victims of our limits, so no one really has to take offense at this. One of the reasons that I try so many different manufacturers of tools is to gain experience. If the DeWalt crowd never ventures out of the HD tool crib, they'll never know what you are talking about. I've eliminated DeWalt simply because I feel their power saw is too big, heavy and cumbersome. I might be willing to give their reciprocating saw a try if it's orbital (I dont think it is). I will be buying a cordless drill and I'll check the Yellow line out but they already have several strikes against them becaue of the above observations.Incidently to Jason: I'm not as concerned about service as you seem to be. I tell every tool salesman that if he's pushing the tool on me because of the good service, he's pushing the wrong button. I don't want a tool that requires service. I want a tool that will last a lifetime with only brush cahnges.blue
*A little more history - Black & Decker really developed the first battery drill for the marketplace in the early 60's. It was targeted at the mid-range, tradesman tools as they were known as opposed to the consumer and industrial lines. Both the motor and the battery were underpowered and the drill saw limited sales for the next 15/20 years.Makita caught B&D asleep at the switch when they introduced some relativley powerful, compact battery tools in the early to mid 80's. Makita reigned top dog in many tool boxes till the early 90's when everyone hopped on board. As much as I am down on DeWalt, their history and experience in the battery tool market shows in their very full produict line. I just think their tools are over priced.
*I basically like there tools. Its the customer service that sucks big time. I gotta go see them this week to get a part they should have in stock for my ROS. im not looking fwd to the trip.
*DeWalt is not made for the long haul. I made two trips to the service center this week. One for a drill to be rebuilt ($81 later it's till broke) and one for one of those awful radios. It didn't sing no more. $42 later it sings again. I can get a boom box at the drug store for about $20. What was I thinking? Neither the drill or the radio were mine. I bought the one guy a new drill. Cheaper in the long run. The radio? Next time I'll buy that guy a $20 boom box. He already has a charger.I buy the mitre boxes (12" compound) because there cheap, lightweight and disposable. Same for the little table saws. If I'm buying tools for me to keep personally, I won't buy DeWalt.Ed.Ed.
*My DeCrap 18v drill just started smoking the brushes today!. It is only 2 years old and not used nearly as many thousand hours as my Makitas have been that are now over 14 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Long live Makita!!!By the Makita blue stream, ]aj
*It's the color. Wife and I were driving through a strange town by a hardware store when my head jerked around. I saw yellow and screamed stop!!! Turned out to be a row of Tonka toy trucks.
*And Tonka toys are very worth stopping for too!near the stream,aj
*Two months ago, I would have been moderately defending DWaltNot now.I have a 12" compound mitre that has served adequately for about five years. Nothing spectaclular but for the cost, it got the job done. She could have used bigger tits, a smaller waist, and a quicker smile, but, like I said, she got the job done.I have their portable table saw also. First time changing the blade two years back the threads stripped off the armature (I KNOW which way the nut turns) Oh well, I thought, she's still on warantee - every body make errors sometimes. New box and she's been rolling along - well, except for that burnt rubber smell all the time.So last week I thought it must be time to replace the frued blade because it was giving some vibration induced bad cuts. Figured the guy that sharpened it last was in a hurry to get home to momma. but while changing the blade I found that the gear box was loose and sloppy. I could lift and wiggle the blade. New blade made no diff in quality of cut.I guess no more bumblebees for me.....
*BTW, I agree on the reconditioned theory. Ryobi has oooodles of toodles in reconditioned catalouges and they are definitely the crappiest tools I've seen except maybe Sears.
*Piffin, you are describing the life of most power tools now. Let me chime in with my old codger act.In the olden days, tools used to be tools. Two men couldn't hardly lift a table saw. The old Porter Cable 508s from the 50's are still humming. Too bad I cant' lift one or I'd be using one.Nowadays, every American tool has a planned obsolescence date imbedded. The components are crap. Realistically, I realize that since the components are crap, the tools have a shorter life. But what aggravates me is the premium prices for mediocre crap. I wish a saw manufacturer would duplicate the tooling that went into the old 508. The technology is there, the materials are there and the buyers would line up....once. It'll never happen.Buy Foreign!blue
*There is a positive side to planned obsolescence. If my first palm sander lasted forever, I'd still be using the noisy, slow, inconvenient monster. Technology is upgrading features faster than quality of production. I'm a dinosaur too. How can you tell what's good untill the others have all broken down around it? Not by the name. I've had some really junky Makitas. Hitachi has a fine circular and slide saw but the portable hand plane stinks. Porter cable is the best overall for me but I've out;asted a couple of theirs too. Don't even use the word Skil around me. I had five tools with that name on rebuilt in one year, most on warantee, and had a big ole yard sale before they could go down again.I guess part of the answer is to come here and listen to good advice. What is my next chop saw. Prefer a sliding compond, I think.......
*Piffin...hitachi is crappier than the yellow crap...It's like the color of your kids worst baby crap days!No Hitachi for me...And easy on the Makita!Near the Makita blue stream where my favorite tools are all still going after more than fifteen years with one switch I repaired and one slide I repaired and one cord I abused to death...Out of about twenty tools!ajMy Makitas....Two chops, 9.6v tools...2 drills, impact, flashlight, mini circlesaw, mini saw zall, stapler,3 110v circle saws, 3" planer, 12" planer, 2 drills(1/2" chuck,) Hammmer drill, Portable table saw, 1/2" router............Total makita repair costs to date $00.00ALL TOOLS STILL WORK AND WORK AS WELL AS DAY ONE FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. AND MOST OF THE TOOLS HAVE HUGE HOURS ON THEM.
*Makita repairs,3 or 4 cords - tho I know they've started using decent rubber these daysone portable table saw motor - and my ears from working around itOne chop saw gaurd - had to throw it away to use the sawone sawzallNever could get the swivle foot on the circ saw to set up parallel to the blade. For the good points - always available - strong motors - big variety of models - decent price - American made mostlyI am looking at them
*Makita has to be bought selectively like all the rest of the tool companies. There are two good chop boxes maybe more but there are also a few that are X'd from my list as is the saw zall. The beds on the circle saws can warp it yaa drop em from high enough. If yaa like precision, then yaa learn not to bang the tools around. Framers do not need exact precision, so they get away with a lot of cord dropping tools, warped beds and all. I did have trouble too with a bed that just didn't seem to line up at 90 degrees even though I found the adjustment set screw and worked on it several times. Sold the saw finally, after kicking in my vehicle/lifes too short-sell the problem rule. Near the Makita blue stream, Bosch, Porter Cable, Milwaukie and more,aj
*Yah...sounds like service actually does matter. Makita let me down a couple times in WAY big ways in both quality and service (sort of like Dewalt let others down). Milwaukee; same problem with drills; no service, some broke in first week of use (1 cordless, 1 corded hammer drill). Like I said, when my supplier switches from Dewalt to something else, I probably will to (I think they're looking into Bosch--which I've never had trouble with). I guess it all depends on your selection, use, and who you do buseinss with, before and after the sale.
*I've got to say that Milwaukee is one that has never let me down. Still have drivers and drills that're over twenty years old. I know they had a bad period a couple of years tho'I think my game plan for the future will be to sell after about four years unless I am really impressed with the tool.
*I junked my Hitachi saw AJ. The motor was so-so, but the body is cheap. I hated the knob which blocked my view of the scale on the table. It bent easy, especially after I whacked the table extension off. Of course, it bends back into place just as easy.I hated it. I actually put a cord on my old Makita and put it back into service, cracked case and all. I've got three good Makita's on the shelf needing cords, switches, ends or something easy like that. I found a guy that will fix the stuff for me almost free. He's got five milwaukees of mine running, but I don't think I want to go back to them. I'll give them to the boys for backups.I am thinking about trying a different nailgun, if I decide to stay working in the field. I'm not sure about that yet. Anyways, I'm tempted to try the Hitachis since so many framers here bragged them up. I might do a 30 day tryout from a Big Box. We'll see. I do like my Paslode. I might need o rings on my newest one. The old ones seem to hit better and my guide/slide seems to be sliding up over the nails and causing a misfire. Life is tough.blue
*You know, I used to get kinda (actually a lot) irritated with aj and some of the other Dewalt bashers. I was a Dewalt fan.All I really know is that after owning 7 different Dewalt tools I got sick of it. My eyes were opened. I have different brands but there is one color that dominates.... RED! And no yellow.I will say that Dewalt cordless drills are the very nicest handling, etc. BUT HEY, IS 3 MONTHS LIFE ENOUGH????So when I sold my carport business and moved back to CO to do plumbing full time again I sold the tools and replaced them with mostly RED. Always had RED Circular saw, Hole Hawg, Sawzall, etc. Is there any other sawzall out there? 'Cuz I ain't ever seen a plumber with anything else. I am sure there are some but I have NEVER seen a plumber with anything except a RED sawzall. Clue?As far as Porter Cable goes... this is pure ancedotal evidence so take it as such.My friend bought a Porter Cable 19.?volt drill at the same time I bought a Dewalt 18 volt. A week after we bought them I was putting metal roofing on a steel frame and had him help me a few days. It took him a lot longer to put a screw in than it did me. I told him to put it in high gear. It was.So I told him it was the RPM's. It was the same. So I told him to trade with me and I'll show him how it's done. Well, he kicked MY butt.Fast forward 3 months... his drill crapped and so did mine. We got identical replacements. Same story. And it was very consistant. The Dewalt put them in faster at the same RPM than the Porter.I know it doesn't make sense. But I talked with a friend in Tennesee who bought the same thing on the same day for his crew. They hated the Porter for this very reason. He thought they were full of BS until he talked to me. BTW, he was in the metal building business too. ?????????????If there is a reason I am missing please tell me.But I no longer have any Dewalts anyway.
*It does vary from one type tool to the other. When it comes to sawsalls the Milwaukee and the PC are at the top of the list. both will last a long time. The PC is harder working and stronger for demo work. The red one is smoother and more neatly controlable for plunge cuts in flooring etc which is why it's so good for you plumbers making all those holes in my good carpentry.
*For Sale:One Dewalt quick-drive 2000 auto-feed screw gun. Comes with a half-box of overpriced 2/12" galv screws, a stripped out handle/clamp, a broken lever/thumbturn tightening mechanism on the drive head, a drive-shaft return spring that has to be poked into position with a screwdriver to re-insert the drive shaft, and a wobbly nose piece that causes the screws to slip out from under the drive head while you're pushing down. Expect at least 50% success rate in you're screwing. Each box of screws comes with at least one, sometimes three spare bits, which is 1/3 what you'll need. A good nail supplier will have extra for sale, which is good, because none of the boxes or lumberyards will. None of those good suppliers are open on Saturdays. Buy about forty. PS. There might be a little bit of dog-shit on it. Sorry.
*Nathan, I don't want your DeJunk screwgun.You have pointed out a common problem with most of todays tools: junk components. Even if you find a great motor/transmission on a particular tool, some or all of the accessories will be substandard. For instance, I bought a new Emglo compressor. Within the week, I was holding the little electrical shut off switch in my hand. When the supplier came out, he was attempting to weasel out of responsibility for this twenty five cent part. I finally had to tell him to give me a new switch (he had to give me a new pressure relief valve-the switch doesn't come seperate) or take the entire unit back and I'd find another brand.American junk!blue
*Might aswell start bashing Delta too! Just got their tenoning jig for the table saw and its held together with the crappest screws and bolts. Gods teeth!! Delta spent $2 extra on real screws and bolts!!
*I'm one of those young guys, just starting out and buying up my first set of tools. Since I am so strapped for money, I do alot of research before I buy...mind you, that when i do buy, I try to put aside the fact that the better tools may cost a considerable amount more, but hey, it's an investment for me. Most of my "research" is just by remembering what my mentor carpenters bought and used and how that worked for me; some info comes from this site, and some comes from just going to stores and anylizing the tool in question. But, throughout it all, I can say that I am both happy and proud of all my tool buys. Makita may be my favorite, European tools may be of superb quality, and common sense just tells you that certain tools by certain manufactuers just last forever.gabe kewayp.s. i am also happy to say that i DO NOT own any DeWalt tools!
*Dewalt doesn't make the Quik Drive. They only supply the driver for their version of the tool. I have a Stanley/Bostich Quik Drive (actually two of them) and love them. I get my screws through Home Depot for half of what everyone else sells them for (same Stanley/Bostich screws). In my case, Stanley/Bostich made the driver. I have never had a problem with either driver or the Quik Drive mechanisms, and I work them hard.Bits do wear out quickly though. Keep lots on hand.James DuHamel
*I had a lot of trouble with Milwaukee resistors for the switchesback about ten years ago .haven't had any trouble since. But check were they are made my palm sander is made in asia and is junk.
*Listening to all you pro's I must admit I'm confused.How about one of you make a list of which company makes the best drill,saw,router and so on. Because after reading all these posts I have no idea who to buy from.
*It is confusing Davego. Your probably better off making your own tools like the old yankee carpenter...blue
*davego,in my toolbox, I have many colors of tools. years ago they were mostly milwaukee red, but I have grown fond of makita blue as time has proven them.. I have a grey and black skil 77 worm drive, a blue makita sidewinder, several makita cordless tools, makita planer,green bosch bulldog demolition hammer, yellow dewalt biscuit joiner, yellow dewalt 18 volt circular saw. it looks like a freakin rainbow in there. but, I try to buy the tool that best suits my needs and current budget. I ask other people who are using similar tools what they think, and try to use them if possible.
*Personal observations:I tend to like the feature sets on most dewalt tools, but I too have longevity problems and am annoyed by something with just about every dewalt tool I own. But that said, I'm annoyed by something with just about every tool I own. My14.4 drill driver has cost me more in repairs in the last two years than it would have cost me for a new Metabo, which I've used and like very very much. The Metabo only costs about 15 bucks more.I love the portable table saw's features, but wish it would stay in parallel better. Gotta reach around underneath to assist in getting it to bevel settings or it twists off axis. I'm about ready to spring for a Festo saw-and-guide system and rarely use a tble say on site again. Just don't have a spare 700 bucks right now...I like the front-adjusting circular saw. Have yet to have a problem with that in 6 years' use.I like the biscuit machine, but wish it had a little less slop in the end result.I like the right-angle drill, but don't use it enough to tell how tough it is. Feels very well built to me.Lastly, I hate how they all attract bees. They seem to think the yellow color is a flower or something. Really. They always hover around the yellow tools. Or maybe it's the sweet smell of burning brushes they like so much...Steve
*Speaking of burning brushes...my 18v is now burning it's brushes bigtime...Never had to replace brushes in my Makitas for at least a decade.near the Makita blue stream,aj
*I'm not a Dewalt fan either and only skimmed through these posts and it doesn't look like this has been mentioned yet. Do you know there are two grades of Dewalt tools? If you look at the handles the Heavy duty ones have black on the grip. The light duties have a solid yellow handle. I learned this after burning up A Dewalt then watching my boss abuse the heck out of his. He told me he had to learn this lesson the hard way too. His seemed to take all the abuse he wanted to give it and never let him down. Personaly I have a Crafstman industrial 18v that suits me fine. Tons of torque and built like a battle ship.
*is it just the handle having black on it, or is there different wording like" professional" vs. "contractor" or something like that? I am curious as to price difference.also, does anybody remember makita's red colr tools? they were a step down from blue.
*As far as I know it's just the handle. I'm thinking that the price difference is about fifty to seventy five bucks, but don't quote me on that.
*gunner, I went to the big orange box today to look at the dewalt tool line. it seems that the black handle units all had a metal front section and said " heavy duty " on the tool. the ones with regular handles did not say heavy duty, but, the label with the price on the display said heavy duty on both tools!!. sounds like home center marketing ploy.
*If you look very hard at the juncture of the pistol grip and the motor housing (on DeWalt corded tools), there is very little plastic connecting the motor housing with the pistol grip. When an operator hits some hard drilling (or running screws or hammer drilling), this small area breaks leaving the front of the pistol grip hanging. My local tool service shop gets dozens of these machine in for this very problem - and he is 15 minutes from the B&D/DeWalt Engineering Center - and he has complained to no avail.Two constants throughout these discussions - you are buying medium-duty or less machines at premium/heavy duty prices and you are buying them from people who are clueless - mostly the big box stores. I'll bet you wouldn't want your subs paying premium prices for low grade products - so why do it yourselves?
*I have a 12 volt heavy duty that I bought new in 93.It has been dropped several times from over 10 feet, gets used just about every day, has been left in the rain, used continuously at -20 F -100 F in snow and dust and still won't die.Does it owe me anything? No. My 12" cms is 5 years old, cost $260, never a problem, cuts staight, made me $$$$. Does it owe me anything? No. My 12 volt trim saw. Also dropped from 16' by a guy named Wolfgang on a morning that the temp. was 10 degrees below 0, bounced about 4 feet, small crack in handle, never a problem. Saved me plenty of time instead of using my worm drive. Owe me? Nah. Do I want to marry my tools? No thanks, I'll take a warm body anyday. Of course Dewalt isn't the best but you can't tell me the tools make the man. I'm sure at some point we've all met someone sporting some super tool that had no idea how to use it. Does this mean he's in it for the "long run", and he knows his trade? If you hire because of the kind of tool a guy has instead of his reputation you must be nuts.
*Great post crosscut...I agree about the rep or the tools thing.near the Makita blue stream with a bit of yellow junk,aj
*I just read a little bit of Dewalt history in my latest Forbes. It seems that Dewalt was a pet project of an ambitious sales guy named Joe Galli of Black and Decker back in 1991. According to Forbes Oct. 1, 2001 issue, Joe put together a plan to launch the DeWalt brand as Black & Decker's high-margin entry for skilled tradesmen and consumer do-it-yourselfer. With the blessing of his bosses, Galli tallied troops of college recruits, dubbed "swarm teams". who evangelized the DeWalt brand at store openings, union halls and Nascar races. From 1992 to 1999 DeWalt had astounding growth, going from $60 million in sales to more than $1 billion. Notice that there isn't anything in there about selling on value and quality. They basically shoved this brand down our throats, and we swallowed hook line and sinker. Does the stuff stand the test of time? I don't know. I don't own any. But it is plain to see that it was just good old fashioned marketing that made us believe that DeWalt is a good brand. I'm somewhat embarrassed that they used college kids: kids that never used a tool, to sell us old farts the goods.I've had a lot of tool guys try to sell me on inferior brands. I just laugh at them and tell them I wouldn't take it if they gave it to me for free. And I wouldn't. blue
*blue, sounds like you know what you're talking about, i mean, you not owning any of their tools really should make you an expert on them. unless you are buying russian tools i can't imagine a tool or product being sold without good old fashioned marketing involved. maybe you just don't like the color. cc
*Actually crosscut, I don't think I've ever offered an opinion about DeWalt tools. I have pulled the trigger on a drill. I used a DeWalt cordless a few times to do simple things, and liked the keyless chuck. That's not an endorsement however. I need to put the tool to a real man's test before I'll comment on it.I have ruled out the purchase of the DeWalt power saw on fit. It's too bulky for my tastes. It might have the best guts of any saw alive, but I'd never buy one for that one reason alone. If it doesn't fit me, I don't care how it performs.Sarcasm noted, but not understood.blue
*blue,calling something inferior and saying you wouldn't take it if it was given to you sounds like a pretty strong opinion to me. how do you put a tool to a real mans test anyway. cc
*Crosscut, please re-read my post. I didn't mention that I've been offered inferior DeWalt brands. I've had tool salesmen try to put a Bammer in my hands, for a free test. I told him I din't need another anchor. It's design is inferior. I've had tool guys try to get me to use Astro guns. I wouldn't even shoot it more than one test fire, just because it felt so flimsy.I've had saws pushed on me, which I won't use...free. I certainly dont intend to pay for that crap that they market.I put a tool through a man's test by using, abusing, and abusing it some more. The higher it is dropped, the more impressed I am if it survives. I like to use beat up old tools, that I have personally inflicted the damage too, through my stupidity.If a tool is inferior, it doesn' survive the first drop. Usually the handle cracks off. Sometimes, the tilt mechanism's deteriorate before I even drop it. There are a variety of reasons that it fails. When one survives, I deem it to have passed the "real man's test". I can't comment on DeWalt, because they don't pass the first man's test-the fit in the store. Their accessories look chintzy. Their attitude seems like USA hype. They are not a no nosense tool. Their advertising is geared toward the average joe homeowner. Their tools just don't cut the mustard. For instance, the sawzall is not an orbiting variety. It fails to inspire me. I don't have anything against this mentality. If the homeowner wants to feel like a big bad burly construction guy, go for it. I just want a tool that performs in all types of bad enviorments. I've used my share of homeowner oriented tools to know when I'm holding another one. After 25 years of tool abuse, you get to understand and look for certain features. DeWalt just ain't got it.That's why I've never bought one.blue
*crosscut:Nothing wrong with DeWalt - just a medium duty machine sold at premium prices. When I see someone who spends Mercedes money for a mid-size Ford or Chevy, I wonder where else the person is spending foolishly. Sure the machine holds up for your use - but there are other brands less expensive than DeWalt that will do the same with better track records. Check my previous posts - I live in the shadow of B&D/DeWalt - some of my friends/neighbors either work there or sell to them - and as they say to me, freiends don't let friends buy DeWalt (unless they don't care about money!) Read the previous post about the article in Forbes - and ask where Joe Galli (the "brains" behind DeWalt) is - guess what - he bailed out 2 years ago when he saw things weren't looking good. And B&D (parent of DeWalt) is posting downturns in sales for the past 2 quarters yet constuction is still stong (according to Engineering New Record). Too many folks are asking the question - is this product worth the price?
*That's correct Ed. Galli bailed out. He's made a few stops at Pepsi, Frito-Lay, amazon.com and somewhere elese. He's now at Rubbermaid and is planning to rebuild the rubberbrand name. Hot tip: buy Newell Rubbermaid now.blue
*Ed....so how long ago did B&D/DeWalt fire ya? Jeff
*Jeff:Never worked for them; was tempted a few times but instead worked for the steel industry (B&D was a client) and then was responsible for manufacutirng in my state for economic development - I assisted many disgruntled employees who bailed out in the early 90's (they were not fired - they left becasue they saw B&D moving away from tools and becoming a consumer product company with more interest in toasters, etc.). In my area, B&D has long had a reputation for hiring you at big bucks, sucking all your knowledge, then getting rid of you. I saw that early on and decided not to even approach them for a job.
*The corporate attitude does determine the quality of a tool just the same as a builders attitude determines the final quality of a house. My applause Ed for shunting the personnal criticism/attack in a professional manner.
*Ed -- I had to laught at your old posting about how DeWalt is not a serious tool, but Hilti is. Now, HD is Hilti heaven. You'll need to rethink your approach :-)
*Oops - I take my own comment back. I now see Ed's thread that explains why HD has Hilti. Mea Culpa
*Oh boy, I hope I didn't make a mistake buying a DeWalt Air Nailer just now. I should have searched the internet and found this place first. I was in a hurry though. I was struggling trying to hand nail an oak ceiling, tongue and groove, cathedral, and I was going crazy bending nails and wacking my fingers. So I remember my kitchen contractor 2 years ago, used all Dewalt tools. I thought, hey, he's a PRO, does it every day, 6 days a week, and he hustles. Works hard as a dog. I figured if it's good enough for him it must be good. I also bought a portable compressor. Total I spent was 490.00 this am. The nailer is a DeWalt model # D51238 (5/8 - 2" x 18 ga.) and the compressor is a Coleman Twin Cyl. Contractor Model # cs0170410, which is a direct drive twin (6.3 cfm @40 and 3.6 @90 lbs) 14 amp, 4 gallon. Guys, did I just buy junk ? I got it from a Chase Pitkins Home Center. I can return them both right now, should I ? They also sell Bosch products. I am new to carpentry and have to make a living at it. Having been a Machine Builder / Toolmaker all my life, the economy is so bad, I lost my job. So I will be using these tools daily on the job. I have no "master" carpenter to teach me the ins and outs. I have to use good judgement and a lifetime of experience to make a buck.I do know I have a Milwaukee sawzall and a couple Milwaukee drills that have been around for 10 years or so. And a Metabo 1/2" keyless drill that put alot of .750 dia. holes through .500 steel. Thanks for any input, good news or bad. Jack Demcovich Sr.
*Jack: I'm sure you coulda done better, but time is money and I'd say put em right to work. And don't waste time worrying about it, either. They're just tools, and when you wear em out you'll know what you want next. Or they might last a long time. I have tools of all colors and a couple of my favorites are yellow.
*Lonecat, thanks for the response. You are right, I looked at these items for about 1 hour and decided to go ahead and use them. I was pretty impressed with the DeWalt nailer. Nice and light, felt comfortable, worked great in tight places. The compressor.... well, I don't know yet. Seems more "light" duty than commercial grade, as stated. Ran an awful lot all afternoon. Anyways, I learned a lesson by finding this website. I will do my homework from this point forward and read the forum before making any new purchases. My next one will be a table saw, what do you know about JET products? Any good? Thanks again, Jack
*Jack...I have a ton of DeCrap...You are fine...Many of us just happen to have more problems with Decrap than with our others tools...brushes and switches and cords with short lifespans...I carry and use daily a collection of 18v Dewalt...handy and powerful items.I own tons of Makita...Love the stuff except not their sawzall...Tons of Milwaukie drills and sawzalls...all their big stuff, no battery stuff. Bosch jigsaws, and sawzalls...PorterCable sanders...In all...over a $100K.My main finish compresser is an oiless Sears pancake...It is quiet! Quiet was most important. It starts with low amps on long leads on 15a cicuits, in winter cold....these are things all the little compressers did very poorly as they went direct drive ten years ago. Campbell Housfield is not a very contractorish name...I think Lowes carries a bunch with the name punch...Porter Cable, DeWalt, Thomas, Boshstich...Woodworkers warehouse puts on sale monthly a gun and compresser together for one price...And that store is tool heaven just to go in a drool for a Saturday afternoon.Slowly breaking my tool addiction near the stream,aj(just bought more paint compresser,guns,hoses,extensions,brushes!)
*Thanks AJ, for the input.The compressor seems to do the job ok, for now. But it has only been 2 days. I expect I'll be buying a different one in the future. It is also loud, as loud as my large Craftsman out in the garage. I like the idea of your Sears pancake being quiet. I'll look into that. Again, thanks for the info.Jack
*jack...My brother has my big Craftsmen...It was super loud...My pancake is the opposite...I always ask to plug in my tools to listen to them....the workers have become friends and put up with me breaking the do not plug in rules...near the stream,aj
*Aj, who makes the Sears stuff? I'm thinking it might be Thomas. I had a T-150 that was quiet and never had a problem with starting on low amps. It lasted a long time. I probably should have rebuilt it. blue
*There not much technology in a compresser to screw up...I just plug em in when I go to buy them...If it starts without groaning and is super quiet, then it's my kinda air supply.And as I have said...I dive off the oiless...near the stream,aj
*This whole thread proves just one thing, that my wife was right when talking about tools. She says: "Tain't the color or brand, its' the fit for You. So take it in your hand, see how it feels, if you like it take it home; if not pass on it."
*Speaking of compressors, I just had a new pump put on my electric Rol-Air. Only one problem....the service guy couldn't locate a rol air pump. So...I had authorized...anything....I got it back today and tried it. I plugged it into the garage door opener outlet. It blew the breaker before it got up to speed. As I reset the breaker, I noticed that it was a 15 amp circuit. I hope it works on the more normal 20 amp circuit...blue
*I noticed a guy with a DeWalt cordless sawzall today. I'm curious about them because I don't use a sawzall that often. When I do, I get very annoyed switching the cord back and forth. For some reason, I always drop the female end and try to plug my saw into the sawzall.Anyways, do those cordless work?blue
*I have one blue...It works just as well. You woudn't try to do an hours worth of window cutouts...but one here...a joist there...doorway sill plates...I prefer my chainsaw.near my Stihl collection,aj
*Aj, just whack that extended table off your power saw and you'll find a thousand spots that you can cut without going for another tool. I'd commit hari kari if I had to get a separate tool for door plates.The idea of a cordless sawzall intrigues me. How much?blue
*Not to beat a dead horse when he's down......But Dewaly surprised me again today - twice!This Morning, I had just started a rip into a board when there was a loud KA-WAM-BANG-RATTLE-SINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! The motor was still motoring but the bladde was just sitting ther and when I pulled the board back it was wobbling and spinning just a little.Half afraid to get near, I reqached down and shut'r off, unplugged it and found schrapnel all over the place. The outer washer on the arbor had exploded and sent at least six pieces of itself sailing in various directions, mostly down. The insert got hit but didn't blow up and off because of the board over it. If I had had a helper on the eject end tailing the cut, he would have bad knees by now. The washer looked like crystalized pot metal rather than hardened steel at the breaks. I was so shook that I had to shut down the job - not that I could do much without the saw working.SECOND SURPRISE - When I called them to report it and demand satisfaction, I was put in touch with a good man who was very interested in replacing all bad parts effected by this incident and in knowing that I wasn't hurt. He is even sending me another blade and he wants the pieces back to send to their engineering dept. for studies to discovere the reason for it. He also helped me out with the other problem I have with the CMS. Seems there was a recall on it for a bolt that lets some slippage occur on the blade. This is on the DW705, type 1 #s *9201 through 9340 and a replacement blade retaining bolt is available to correct it. I'll let know how it all turns out.Meanwhile I'm still eyeballing that Makita dual coompound slider.......
*Got the new washer by overnight the next day and put'r on. Running fine! Hope that's the only bad one out there.
*Soooooo, I'm not the only hacker to get out the Stihl to cut door plates(and garage door plates and such) I usually do it first thing in the am before anyone gets there to see me. I could not handle the "amish" cracks all day. They still don't know why I scream so loud when they drive nails right beside the jacks on doors....hmmmm
*And I did have a "moment" yesterday at HD and bought one of those Dewalt 730 mitre saw stands. Had a tiny dent in one leg, and my favorite "orange smock"( and former drywall sub) marked it down to $99.00 for me. Seems like it might do, and I seem to remember Blodgett had one in a picture where he was explaining his way of trimming windows.....OK maybe I should have thought about it and considered the source.
*I use a lot of DeWalt tools for different reasons. One you create a system that some times switchs inner change if a tool break down in the middle of a job.Larry Martinhttp://www.accutools.net/id4.htm
*I love dewalt. Most of my tools are dewalt but Im not stupid I do use a bosche roto hammer and senco finish guns for now.
*hey, who makes that autohammer ?...i been trying to buy 1 for months ....hmmm......skil with a 12 " cord....anyone remember the real "homo" tools .. oh yeah.. they were yellow.. then a bunch of Craftsman..and a B&D.. then my first real girl.. a Rockwell 315...and a Rockwell sawzall... what a dog...course my Homelite XL that i fished out of the bay only ran for 22 years, damn shame .. lent it to a ham-handed roofer.. a Millers Falls router .. 1/2" that still screams...A DeWalt 12" radial arm saw wired for 220...same blade for 6 years ( well, ok.. 6 months)...many bostich guns.. and sidewall staplers,1/2" crown..Milwaulkee, milwaukee, milwaukee....and metabo.. ..AEG.. and Souix offset 3/8 drill..and Hitachi.... nowadays... i read the reviews and watch the sales.. never know what i'll wind up with...but the old 12" dewalt yellow CMS.. sure is sweet..
*Orlo, Your bench setup looks intresting. Does it have any retractable wheels or do two of you lift and carry? I can see how the wings fold in and under.How high off the floor is the top work surface??The answer to your question of what should be your number one tool is an alert mind connected to a healthy body.
*piffin,It dose not have any retractable wheels and because it is very light you can carry it alone. It is approximately 34" off the floor to the work suface. I also do agree with you about the healthy body.Larry
*Ron,I sent my 3/8" Dewalt drill in for repairs - 8 years old - got it back fixed and no charge - not too bad.My Skil saw is going on 17 years old - only faults are a nick in the cord and the blade brake is shot; otherwise, it still hauls.Cliff.
*What Voltage should I buy for a cordless drill/saw combo, and which brand? I am looking at the 14 or 19.2 volt Porter Cable , but am open to other suggestions. I am an architect, weekend builder and home owner who is building my own house and enjoy's quality tools, but I am on a budget. Cost and Weight suggest the 14 volt, power suggests the 19.2.
*I've been at this a long time, and 12 volts is what I like for all my cordless tools.
*Andrew- Go for the 14.4v, definitely the best of both worlds. 18v and 19.2v are pretty heavy and you prob. don't need the extra power. - Ken
*when it comes to cordless...ppppappannaasoniccc
*
I've been in the business for about eight years and have used plenty of different brand tools, and I've never had any problems with Dewalt besides breakdown from years of extended use. My 14 volt drill is about five years old and still my favorite, and I own three other brand drills, ranging from 12 to 18 volts. The table and compound miter saws are great, and my fixed base router is by far the best one I've used, Bosch a close second. I'm I alone here?