In the “pick up vs van” thread, JAGWAH posted a pic of a bread truck he used to work out of.
I think I’ve seen a tradesperson in a step van only once.
With all that room I would think a few people would use them.
So, Why not a step van??
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
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I've seen a couple. Idea works for me just fine. I don't think they handle rougher terrain or mud quite as well as some other vehicles tho'
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The bigger it is the more stuff you are obligated to jam into it. But at least you won't have to take out the passenger seat to make room.<G>
The main thing about the bread truck I liked was how after installing my shelving I still had enough empty spaces for whatever came along.
For one job I hung several cheap white chains down each side of the center and connected each chain across. This created a way to stain and paint over 1200 feet of base and crown while suspending them on multiple levels down the center of the van. (This is harder than I thought to explain.)
Anyway after finishing everything and leaving the van open for a day for it all to dry, off I drove to the job site. The gentle racking back and forth of all that trim was soothing as I drove along. I failed to notice a red light and was almost impaled by all that trim at the moment I stomped on the breaks. After that i planed a plywood wall between me and everything behind next time.
The only thing I noticed was I had over $10,000 worth of tools on that puppy and despite all that several jobs couldn't begin because I couldn't find a $2.00 screwdriver.
A stepside/curbside is a wonderful vehicle, particularly some of the larger ones. They do have downsides though:
- it's a "real" truck, so it doesn't double as a family car.
- it's design point is low speeds: it doesn't like going fast or turning fast.
- the depreciation (in my area compared to a pick-up or van) is brutal in the first year or two; because of that, most are driven into the ground as commercial vehicles and the used ones available, no matter how cheap, are usually shot - because of this, you mostly likely have to decide to make a long-term commitment, buy a new one (technically, 90%+ are on lease, but the leases are renewed several times unless the vehicle has a bad service history), and drive it for 10+ years. So, if you find a cheap, low-mileage van on a lot, it's either a lemon or the company went under - worth your while to check which.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
you guys are talking about what a ups delivery truck is right? thats the thing I imagine when I think of bread truck. I was wondering if ups drives them into the ground? or is there any life left when they get rid of them? do they have auctions?
anybody got any other tips about where to get one and how much they are?
and lastly to phil, i was wondering about depreciation rates as well. with this new tax law (#179?) still in effect untill the end of 2004, for vehicles with a gross vehicle weight over 6000 lbs. (this means it is rated for hauling over 6000 pounds not that it weighs over 6000 lbs) you get to write off a greater percentage than in previous years (before law was enacted). doesn't this apply to a "step van" as well? i had heard that even a new 1/2 ton pick-up might qualify if it had a tow package, rated over 6000 GVW. is this correct?
>> I was wondering if ups drives them into the ground?
I don't know any details about where to buy them, or how many miles they put on them before selling them, but I can assure you without hesitation that UPS does not drive them into the ground. For two reasons.
1) They can't afford the repair bills. Unlike the miraculous one hoss shay, motor vehicles don't run perfectly until the day they fall apart. With rare exception, once you start doing expensive repairs on a truck, it doesn't get better. Repair costs just keep going up. In fact, if they don't retire their fleet on a fixed mileage rule, repair cost is probably how they decide when to get rid of a particular vehicle.
2) They can't afford the cost of spare units to cover the trucks that are out for repairs. Either rentals or company owned spares are just too expensive. This may actually be worse than the repair costs, because they don't have any option. The packages have to be delivered.
good stepvans are imposible to find around my area, sarnia ontario, actually never seen one for sale
i drove one years ago on a delivery route, it was just a 3/4 ton van or pickup underneath, had sliding doors(great for deliveries), colder than anything in winter and hot as uno what in summer
but they would make great work trucks, flat walls, almost flat floors and very simple mechanically, mine was a 6 cyl with 4 speed floor shift manualcaulking is not a piece of trim
I've driven a couple on different jobs. I agree with you about the straight walls and flat floor. As if they were designed for utilitarian customization. Say, you don't suppose ...
And they do seem to be rare in second hand use. I can only remember one person I knew driving one, and that was 30 years ago. I don't know. Maybe the fleet owners do drive them into the ground.
Unc,
UPS trucks ("cars" to the people in the business) are never resold
They have their own service people doing the repairs
Each center has an extra one or two on hand, otherwise they borrow from other centers There are always a couple undergoing in house service
Those trucks which appear to be ageless, sometimes are. They can be 30 years old.
300,000 to 500,00 miles per vehicle is not uncommon
The older trucks probably have 500 pounds of paint on them from all the repaints.
carpenter in transition
Who makes them?
I operate out of a 1987 Gruman aluminum body step van. It has 75,000 original miles, a 454 GM motor and a 25,000 gcvw.
The pluses are I can carry all my tools and materials to do just about any job. I paid $5,000 for it and it owes me nothing. The down sides are many:
Customers don't want it parked on their driveway.
It's a pig on gas...only likes premium.
Most shops won't work on it. Needs Muffler now spent hours finding a shop to do it.
You're under DOT regulations...anything over 10,000 lbs gvw is...it ain't pretty.
No traction on wet grass or it's own shadow...jobsite towing can really bust a days work.
If you're not very organized it's just more room for a bigger mess.
I'm presently looking for a normal van.
I think he is talking about the Sprinte vans. Mercedes makes them, they are sold by Freightliner and Dodge dealers. 5 cylinder Mercedes diesel, automatic, high top, nice van. 22MPG too. DanT
I always thought they were GM products, but I would have to confirm that with my brother in law..
carpenter in transition
I'm not that up on US tax laws; but, you normally get a better break on a full commercial vehicle (and the government rarely suspect you of cheating on personal miles).
Into the ground is in the eye of the beholder. Most "real" commercial trucks can be "re-trained" (full new power-train) or even "re-manufacturered" a couple of times before retirement because the bodies/frames last so long now with regular maintenence: there are a lot of old trucks on the road (some of those Peterbuilts you see on the thru-way were built in the 60's and still running). Trucks get retired early when they have a recurring high maintenence history, i.e. they're a lemon; they have an appearance problem (once they start to rust, the cost of maint sky-rockets and they often dump them); or they need serious structural work/mechanical renewal. Vehicle costing, particularly in fleets, has become very sophisticated through the use of extensive computer modeling, they even calculate in fuel usage..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
they even calculate in fuel usage.
That's a good point. Companies using these vehicles purely for deliveries are almost certainly doing a lot of miles every day. Contractors, on the other hand, have different priorities, and the economics of an older vehicle might well be in the contractor's favour
John
I read " somewhere" that UPS has their trucks made specially for them, and because of liability issues , they are destroyed when unservicable.
I have never seen anyone sporting a used one,but I wouldn't drive one anyway- Have you ever noticed how a normally calm dog goes batship when the UPS man comes.
Don't upset the dogs.
We can get used bread trucks in my area from, of all places, the bread company! A couple of guys in my area one is a roofer and a couple of carpenters use them as big job vehicals. I looked at the idea but decided against it as they are hard to park as we work in town a lot. Also not exactly nimble to drive. But I do think for the big job, parked for awhile thing they might be good. We have a 1 ton cut away with a Spartan body on it. Only 26k new with air and not bad to get around in plus 12 ft of area for material. I have hauled 47 sheets of 10' drywall before along with all my tools and gear without problems. DanT
Dan , brother had one.
He used it up north on Martha`s Vineyard Island. Close to Pif.
He does a lot of different things as we do and it held a lot of different tools . It was kept on the job and locked up. He swares it would be the rental dream!
Tim Mooney
A plumber friend bought two used bread truck step-vans with alumimum bodies. He had the motors reworked and they have lots of miles. He loves them. They sure are cool looking, that silvery aluminum color. Obviously, not a speck of rust...
carpenter in transition
Why not indeed? I've often thought the same thing. Not actually a step side but a cargo van which is for all practical purposes the same thing. My electrician just got a new Ford with the cube box on the back for $23,000.00. I thought that was a great price as I paid $19,000.00 for the last Ford E250 I bought in 1997. The one the electrician replaced was also a Ford cargo van, 1978 I believe, with about 300,000 miles on it. The new ones have a nice fiberglass body and an aluminum roll up door. Also has nice big sides that will sport a real big sign.
No one's mentioned those sweet looking Freightliner/Dodge vans I keep seeing around...nice and tall (as a popular option), not too box-y, 5-cylinder Mercedes diesel engine...oh, yeah, they cost between 25,000 and 30,000 bucks. Maybe after FedEx gets tired of one of 'em...
- Benjamin Miner
"There's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over."
Hey Rich.......things treating you well?
At the end of the month, I'm saying good-bye to my alum step van. Buddy made me an offer I can't refuse. Getting what I paid for it! I was planning on replacing it this summer with a cube-van....with AC.
Had it for 15 years. 874.000 miles on it. 2 engines, 2 trannies, springs, frontend, ......
Hell, I even replaced the gas tank. But I never painted it. Never had rust. Never washed ot.........not once.
Hated driving it.........loved it when it was parked on the job.
Highly recommend one for anyone more interested in working good rather than looking good.
I was once involved in the purchase of a "Ryder" brand moving truck. The recycling center I volunteered at got a grant to buy one to use for collections of recycleable materials.
Ryder seems to maintain their trucks well, and always trades them off after 5 years.
That particular truck served the place well for many years. I eventually quit volunteering there, and they were still using it after 6 (?) years.
One thing to keep in mind - If the truck goes to hell on you, the cube body can easily be removed and put on another truck frame. Depending one the size of the box and local shop rates, it will probably only set you back about $1,000 or so.
I wonder if other dogs think poodles are Members of a weird religious cult. [Rita Rudder]
I have one as a company truck for an electrical outfit, and like it just fine. If it's kept nice and organized it's a treasure to walk into UPRIGHT and will hold an incrediable amount of material.
Mine has a built in work bench that comes in handy... and in foul weather I can do high voltage splices where it's warm and dry with tunes!
The downsides are it's not the sportiest drive and it's very noisey with the big aluminum walls, I took it up the skihill this year and it was an extremely scary experience, the fresh powder made it woth the drive.
bake
I'm still wondering about the concept of pick up trucks vs vans.
You know, between security, weather and vans (especially my extended van) have a whole lot more room.
Seems to me that cube vans or step vans are even better....so whats the dilema really?
Remember "Dugans" (sp?)...those trucks that delivered milk and bread and baked goods right to your door?
Saw one the other day with the faded letters on it. Ladders up top, and I could smell the baked goods in my mind.
Be-ing puzzled about pickups other than they look cooler
andy
"My life is my practice"
Remember "Dugans"
This is why I bought my bread truck. Most of my customers didn't like the big old boxes setting in front of their houses. They often said how ugly.
But the 61' bread truck I had , had curved windows in front, a stylized curved front and all the handles were the big old chrome fancies. It had an old charm. There wasn't one of my clients that didn't want to climb in and look around.
The truck was a beautiful nostalgic selling tool for me.
Unfortunately that old puppy after 6 years of service with me died. Parts were hard to find. Heck when I got it and rebuilt the breaks before I drove it ,I had to lay out $1500 just to rebuild the system.
The electricle had no breakers, all hard wired in. It was a labor of love though that I miss dearly.
Man - are you really old enough to remember Dugan's. That truck had a permanent parking place on our block. That's about the time frame when the cleaners still delivered Dad's shirts with the cardboard inserts and the milk came in glass bottles to the little aluminum box on the porch.
Ralph
Yeh I'm that old....52 with eyes of blue...lol.
I can even remember when a carosel truck used to stop by our apt building and you paid em a dime to ride.
Pizza was fifteen cents.
Our doctor made house calls.
Movies were fifty cents and you got two movies....A Bowery Boys movie and a monster movie.
You tossed some change into this thigamajiggy when you got onto the bus and didn't need exact change.
I could get on the subway by myself to go into Manhatten at 10 years old without worrying.
Be older n dirt but stilll rockin
a"My life is my practice"
I ran across a discussion board that seems to focus on recycled stepvans and similar as work trucks. Didn't look at it too closely, though. Was trying to see if I could get an approximate price on a UMC Grumman small van when I ran across it.
http://forums.vmag.com/wtvanfreight/
Saw a Grumman bodied front wheel drive Volkswagen that looked something like a 2/3 scale step van. The owner wanted $5,000 for it, however, which I didn't have rattling around in my pocket at the time. Cute, but a little too small for the kind of work a contractor would want it for.
This has been an interesting thread. Step vans never seem to get mentioned here on BT, and I don't think there is a single local tradesperson here using them. So I thought there must be a big problem that wasn't obvious to the causal observer.
Maybe there is one in my (far off) future...
Thanks to all.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
This has been an interesting thread. Step vans never seem to get mentioned here on BT, and I don't think there is a single local tradesperson here using them. So I thought there must be a big problem that wasn't obvious to the causal observer.
I found them to drive peculiarly. Bought a cube van instead. Worked great when I was doing site work in Denver. As I don't do that anymore, it was replaced with my deuce-and-a-half, which has considerably different benefits. City parking isn't one of them.
Drive a step van and drive a cube van to see which you prefer. There's a large fuel economy difference between single and dual rears. Oddly enough, my diesel deuce does almost as well as my old Dodge cube did.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!