Perhaps this topic has already been tossed around here, but I’ve been a little out of it lately, I guess. Why has the price of OSB almost trippled since the summer and when will it come back down?
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Replies
I know in NC we saw another price jump on all sheet goods after the Hurricane. They were already on the rise this summer.
Id think its mostly due to Iraq. http://www.insidenova.com/homefocus/sudden_jump9_19.htm
IN Cleveland, OH 1/2" OSB is $ 16.69 at Home Depot. Ridiculous.
I recently did some work for a news reporter and mentioned it to him. He did research to do a story on it and found its a combination of the hurricanes down south and it being shipped over to Iraq....personally I think its mainly Iraq.....Its not like there haven't been hurricanes before.
Why do they get the plywood and we get the junk?
Be happy with the Bush administration and Halliburton!
andy
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"....personally I think its mainly Iraq...."
Honestly, Andy, I think that's beneath you. To blame it on Iraq just because you don't like GW is ludicrous.
In one of the previous threads there were links to articles explaining why the prices went up. Like this one:
http://www.freep.com/realestate/renews/lumbex12_20031012.htm
The plywood sent to Iraq was a pretty small amount, relative to how much is produced in the US. It is only one small part of the picture.My play was a complete success. The audience was a failure. [Ashleigh Brilliant]
Ron
I understand that, but we've had tornados and hurricanes before and the prices never soared like this before.
PS.....that link says "page can not be displayed" :(
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 10/29/2003 3:00:03 AM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
Another try:
http://www.freep.com/realestate/renews/lumbex12_20031012.htmHe that always gives way to others will end up having no principles of his own [Aesop]
Boss,
I gave an estimate for a job last spring when the price of 7/16 osb was about $4.89.
by the time I actually did the project in July---the price was around $14 if I remember right.---that's BEFORE hurricanes
A sub told me 2 weeks ago that he had recently paid about $20/sheet.
I don't know if it has anything to do with Iraq---but the prices skyrocketed well before hurricanes.---what else of signifigance was going on then?
BTW---I personally ate the difference between $4.89 and $14/sheet on 90 plus sheets
I have to build about 8 cabinets next week and went to the cabinet plywood supplier and the stuff is about 50% higher. Per my supplier, OSB and CDX plywood saw the biggest price jump. They blamed Iraq for the issue, seems the govt ordered ####s h i t l o a d of the stuff cutting supply. Supply and demand.
They believe the prices will go back down within about 90 days.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
OSB Prices:
The guys at our lumber yard are not posting OSB prices, rather quoting it like today's "market price" for fresh fish. The reason - 3 weeks of the US total OSB output is committed to Iraq. Couple his with the fires in California, OSB prices are destined to remain high for the next several months.
Rookie
"3 weeks of the US total OSB output is committed to Iraq."
Unless something major has happened in the past few days (which I doubt) that's total B.S. The amount sent to Iraq was less than one day's output for the US mills.
The following is a quote from one of the articles on the subject in one of the posts above:
The U.S. Defense Supply Center in Philadelphia recently purchased about 20 million square feet of plywood for shipment to Iraq. That is a fairly small amount; annual consumption of plywood in this country totals about 16 billion square feet.
I don't know why this Iraq theory is so popular, and gets blown out of proportion so much.My life has a superb cast but I can't figure out the plot. [Ashleigh Brilliant]
Wish I could up my prices by 50% and still get jobs.............
Thank goodness I don't use much Wafferboard in what I do. The last 2 sheets I bought for us to just stand on, cost me $17.76 each "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
The Iraq theory is so popular because that's what my/our suppliers are laying on us. I respect your truss info and am glad for it, but stick to what you actually know, or you'll get busted<G> EliphIno!
"The Iraq theory is so popular because that's what my/our suppliers are laying on us."
Well, I'm a supplier too. And I try to pay attention to what's going on. So I think my opinion is a valid one. We buy and sell OSB every week - About 2 semi loads.
It bugs me that some folks have wrapped it up in one neat little package, saying "It's all because of Iraq" even though that's not true.
I realize the purchase for Iraq played a role in OSB prices. But I prefer to stick to reality in defining ALL the reasons. Throwing around rumors like saying 3 week's worth is going to Iraq is irresponsible, IMHO.One of life's mysteries is how a 2 pound box of candy can make a woman gain 5 pounds
Do you supply housefulls of osb? I'm not trying to be disrepecful here, I'm just tired of all the bogus info getting passed along here. EliphIno!
maybe this will help
http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2003-09-01-plywood_x.htm
Yeah? EliphIno!
As I mentioned in a reply to a similar thread a couple of weeks ago, the business section of our local paper here in the heart of timber land, the Portland Oregonian, said much of the blame was poor product planning on the part of the manufacturers. I guess that since they figured we were in the midst of a depression, no one would be buying the stuff. Instead, building seems to be going full bore despite not much else happening. However, if it was simply a matter of not having enough in the pipeline, I am surprised that things have'nt caught up by now.
> I guess that since they figured we were in the midst of a depression, no one would be buying the stuff. Instead, building seems to be going full bore
IIRC, construction is a leading indicator in a recovery, and overall employment is a lagging indicator. So suppliers of building materials are kinda in the front seat of the rollercoaster.
-- J.S.
yeah, that's what I'm told....combination of not enough capacity in the industry, and prices that have been artificialy depressed for a long time.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
"Do you supply housefulls of osb?"
We buy OSB to apply to wall panels and roof truss gables. We go through quite a bit of the stuff.
What I said would probably have been more accurate if I said we BUY OSB instead of buy AND sell. (Since we actually sell assembled components with OSB applied to them) What I was trying to get across was that I try to keep up on issues about lumber and plywood pricing.If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets.
Boss,
RE: your statement" We buy and sell OSB every week---about 2 semi loads"
Actually thats your employer the truss company doing the buying and selling.You would likely have a much different feeling about this if it was actually YOUR money involved.
It's like that old joke about the bacon & eggs breakfast. the chicken had an interest in it,but the pig was committed!
"You would likely have a much different feeling about this if it was actually YOUR money involved."
I don't see what that has to do with it. The issue is WHY the price of OSB has risen, not who's pocket it's coming out of.Back off! You're standing on my aura
It costs the same to make OSB this month as it did 6 months ago. The cost of glue has not tripled. Nor has the cost of wood chips or transportation or labor. The equipment is already there and probably paid for. The question to ask is who is making a ton of money from this and why are we letting them? They hold congressional investigations when the price of gas goes up 25 cents. Why not when OSB goes up $12 ??? It's not simply the old fairy tale of supply and demand. It's greed.
"It costs the same to make OSB this month as it did 6 months ago."
OSB and lumber pricing are based on supply and demand, not manufacturing costs.
" They hold congressional investigations when the price of gas goes up 25 cents. Why not when OSB goes up $12 ??? "
What good have the congressional investigations done, except waste a lot of time and money? What have they ever found?
You can call supply and demand a "fairy tale" if you want. But that's how things are done in many businesses. Get used to it.
What about when the price of OSB has dropped below the manufacturing costs, and they have to close mills and lay off workers. Is that greed on your part, since you shop for the cheapest price regardless of the consequences?Bumpersticker: I am not your type. I am not inflatable.
When I go to the yard and buy 400 sheets, they don't say "gee, you must really need this so we're charging you double". Likewise, if I have not bought any for a while the yard doesn't say "oh, my, you have not been buying much, how about if we sell you OSB for $3?".
I have no problem at all with the manufacturer charging what they need to cover costs and make a decent living. I do have a problem when they all decide at once to stiff me. That's just greed. No, congressional hearings will not solve anything. They only emphasize to the suppliers that people are pissed and will soon start to do things that will hurt.
Sory you feel that everyone's out to get you. Supply and demand pricing is a part of life. Learn to live with it.
No need to worry, thogh. Right now every plywood producer out there is trying to figure out a way to squeeze every bit of production they can out of their mills. The prices should come crashing down sometime after the first of the year. (Just a guess, of course)
That's how supply and demand work - When the price goes up, the supply side increases production. Things will level back out eventually.Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
Everybody is not out to get me. (They mostly already have.) I'm also not on a quest to find the cheapest regardless of the consequences, as you said in a previous post. I sell for a price that I feel to be fair. One that adequately compensates me and my employees and suppliers. Could probably earn more money another way, but I have enough. Not a lot, but enough.
The plywood and OSB manufacturers also know this is a temporary opportunistic bubble in price. I very seriously doubt anybody is investing to increase the supply. They know the price could crash as soon as they do. MAybe just push their workers a bit harder to squeeze out a little more profit. They're just fat and happy. Glad that they can take this opportunity to shaft people before they can work out other options.
Maybe you're chomping at the bit to get some of the new Southern California work. After all, the supply is temporarily fixed and now there's a whole lot of demand from people wanting a roof over their heads. Ought to be able to charge 3 or 4 times what you did last week for the same thing. "just a part of life. Learn to live with it". What's fair and what's good business are two different things entirely. Well, not how I live my life. If I don't want it done to me, I don't do it to them. Seems like I heard that somewhere before. Not a lot of people believe it. Doesn't much matter to me, that they don't. But, it helps me sleep better.
"I very seriously doubt anybody is investing to increase the supply."
Sounds like you need a serious lesson in economics. Are you so paranoid that you think all the plywood suppliers are meeting once a week to set production levels, like OPEC? Just to screw you over?
Get a grip on reality. Learn to live with supply and demand economics. No need to get an ulcer over it.Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go. Oscar Wilde]
You like to use a lot of fairly unjustifiable terms. "Paranoid. Get a grip. Get an ulcer" None of the above apply. If you don't care to hear other people's opinions, there's no need to read them.
OSB is a commodity. The retail price is relatively independent of any one manufacturer's actual cost, efficiency, etc. Just like oil. One producer can't charge much different than another regardless of his costs of exploration, etc. This is a windfall situation. Yes, the manufacturers are in essentially a cartel. Otherwise, you would see one yard selling one brand at a low price (and be out of stock), and another selling at a high price. They have a very good understanding of the seasonal and windfall variations in demand and are not about to invest in permanent overcapacity for a temporary condition. Just like the oil companies, they can get away with price gouging, so they do it. Sure, the price of wood chips may be up to $40 a ton. That's about 40 cents a sheet and materials are only a fraction of the product cost. The price of fuel has gone down and interest rates are about the same.
Yes, this is the way the world works. No, it doesn't have to be the way the world works. It's yet another example of how people behave. Like your responses to my posts. I'm not in the least bit upset about any of it. I pass the costs along to the customer. They want to know why it costs $2,000 more for a house this month, it's because Georgia Pacific wants a little higher profit at their expense. It doesn't cost me a dime.
I don't get it - You rant about greed, but understand and accept the reality of supply and demand?
You aren't upset, but you rant on and on about greedy corporations?
I think I'm done arguing with you. It's pointless.So - When's the Wizard going to get back to you about that brain?
Louisiana Pacific is the nation's largest producer of OSB. I don't know the percentage of total OSB product they produce, but I think it is substantial. There are a number of other producers, but I think many of them are rather small. Thus the following may have had an effect on the market:
Portland, Ore. (May 6, 2003) - Louisiana-Pacific Corporation (LP) (NYSE: LPX) announced today that it will be taking downtime at eight of its North American oriented strand board (OSB) mills for capital projects and extraordinary maintenance. The downtime, ranging in duration at each mill, will occur between June 1 and July 15, and will reduce normal production by more than 50 million square feet during the period.
Capitalism is based on greed. Unfortunately, it seems to work much better than systems based on idealism. If you have taken some business management courses, you learned that as a manager of a public corporation you have an obligation to maximize return to your stockholders. The only battle is whether that gain should be viewed in the short run, as it tended to be in the US during the big stock runup, or over the long run such as it is in some other countries.
Thus, if you have a short run view, you are then obligated to soak it to your customers when the opportunity arises. To do otherwise could leave you open to charges of neglecting your fiduciary responsibility and you could end up in the courts as well as in the unemployment line. The argument against sticking it to your customers is that the long range profits would be maximized by their future purchases based on the good will of not hiking the current price to the maximum. This is not always an easy sell.
I am not quite sure of when meeting the "law of supply and demand" becomes "gouging" or "profiteering". I believe a study of the runup of gas prices some time back found that the oil companies were simply meeting the law of supply and demand. Yet when small retailers or motels raise prices because they have few supplies but see a huge demand comming because of a fire or hurricane, they are blasted as gougers.
That tight supply brings high prices is well accepted as normal business. Antiques, famous art works, and even homes in many exclusive neighborhoods get most of their value in that there are limited numbers of them. We accept it even though it often creates a few haves and many that are left out entirely. To paraphrase Winston Churchill - capitalism is the worst system, except for all the others...
"I think I'm done arguing with you. "
Excellent. I know somebody who believes all discussion is unacceptable unless you agree with his viewpoint. He has an excuse. He's 4 years old.
Yes, to some extent supply and demand are real. So is greed. The dividing line between profit and greed is not a clear line. I believe the current situation is motivated by greed. You think it is profit. OK. There's no argument. I have an opinion and you have an opinion.
" I know somebody who believes all discussion is unacceptable unless you agree with his viewpoint. He has an excuse. He's 4 years old."
Seems to me that describes YOU pretty well.I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce
Forget hurricanes....next excuse will be wildfires in Southern Caliornia.....
What great timing huh? I sure feel for those folks.
Katrina lost a thousand dollar watch I bought her for her birthday ten years ago at 40 years old....she's sooooooo upset but keeps saying she keeps thinking about all the folks that just lost their homes and belongings in Calif.
I just find it odd that NO ONE is really investigating why the cost of ply and Advantech has gone up multi fold...Its what builds america aint it?
The reporter I worked for read an article that some other reporter wrote and said its cause of the hurricanes mainly and a trifle to do with Iraq. Thats what a reporter wrote....was HE a pro Bush advacate? Who knows?
Has ANYONE investigated this unbiasedly yet?
BE real
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"I just find it odd that NO ONE is really investigating why the cost of ply and Advantech has gone up multi fold...I"
No one like who? Congress?
As I said in an earlier post, nothing ever came of all the congressional investigations over gas prices. By the time they could get investigations set up, the OSB prices will have come back down. (Just like gas prices)
The articles that have been referenced on these boards all give legitimate reasons why OSB prices have risen. All were from independant sources. I don't know that you're going to get a more independent opinion than that.Justice without force is powerless; force without justice is tyrannical. [Blaise Pascal]
OK OK so what your insuating is that I hate Bush....OK you win!
Must be that smerk and daddys money that gets to me so bad.
aMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
" Nor has the cost of wood chips or transportation or labor. "
Do you have any number to back that up with?
I saw this posted in an other forum today.
"
I know one thing, the market for wood chips is WAY up.....buddy of mine down the road buys pulp wood for sawing into pallet lumber, and was getting $22/ton for his scrap slabs run thru a chipper.....that's gone to $40/ton now and he just set in a new chipping system to the tune of 100K to make more chips.....may quit making pallets and JUST make chips he thinks...."
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=669925&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post671831
And now many mills are running now verse 6 months ago? Now many are running overtime? Now many lines that where shut down because they where ineffectant are now back up again?
" the issue is why the price of OSB has risen,not who's pocket it is coming out of"
I beg to differ.
why it has risen may be important
but who's pocket it is coming out of( mine and many others here) is what makes it important to US. you can afford to be more detached since you are at least one step removed from the situation.
and given the cosy relationship this administration has with various components of the "extraction industries"---it's not unreasonable to comment on who's pocket it is coming out of---AND wonder who's pocket it is going INTO.
BTW---I have enjoyed your lectures on free market,supply & demand etc.what I have enjoyed MOST is your status as a "farmer" lecturing the rest of us an free market,supply and demand. Given american agricultures' historical enjoyment of federal subsidies,crop price supports, and a multitude of government programs which over the years have amounted to virtual welfare programs aimed at the family farm---but in reality funneled into agribiz-------well let's just say it's been lot's of fun. when you folks in the farm belt "get used to it" ( true supply & demand economics) let the rest of us who have actually been dealing with it know---then we REALLY will have something to discuss!
also BTW---if instead of discussing OSB jumping from $4.89 to $20 in 8 months
We were discussing Milk prices jumping from $3/gallon to $12/gallon in the same time frame---would you still be lecturing us on supply and demand?
"but who's pocket it is coming out of( mine and many others here) is what makes it important to US. you can afford to be more detached since you are at least one step removed from the situation."
I may not be the one paying for it directly. But I get to listen to customers bitch all the time about the prices, and why their truss prices have risen. I bought a bunch of the stuff back in 1994 when it was at an unheard of price of $11 a sheet, and didn't make a big fuss about it then.
"...what I have enjoyed MOST is your status as a "farmer" lecturing the rest of us an free market,supply and demand...."
I'm not a farmer. I just help relatives and friends farm.
But if you'd paid attention to previous posts I've made on the subject, you would have known that I and MOST farmers oppose government price supports.
"We were discussing Milk prices jumping from $3/gallon to $12/gallon in the same time frame---would you still be lecturing us on supply and demand?"
I don't see that milk prices have any relavance here. But if they did go up, like you mention, they wouldn't stay there long. Every farmer with dairy cows would be keeping heifers and milking them, squeezing every last drop out of their herd that they could. (no pun intended) Production would rise, and prices would drop.
The law of supply and demand would quickly bring prices back to normal, just as it will with OSB prices.
When the government fears the People, that is Liberty. When the People fear the Government, that is tyranny. [Thomas Jefferson]
You're right, of course, all the empiric evidence says that the amounts of ply/OSB diverted to export should have about the same impact as a cat3+ hurricane making landfall. On the other hand, factory output figures, mill employment figures, moves for years by US mills to cap the import of foreign product and to artificially raise the price for foreign product all point to a concerted effort by the lumber industry to 'manage' the price higher (can you spell OPEC ?). The misinformation leaks to the press starting/fueling these rumours of product shortages and conditioning the market to accept higher prices is just part of the strategy. And so long as they don't collude to fix the prices, they're home-free..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
If the Iraq theory is not correct, then what is the reason? I got burned for for $10/sheet before any hurricanes hit.
Read the articles referenced earlier in the the thread. They give a pretty good overview of the situation.Employment application blanks always ask who is to be notified in case of emergency. I think you should write "A very good doctor." --
maybe it's time to consider other options?
I buy rough sawn lumber direct from my local sawmill and can get it for much less than the cost of plywood/OSB.. for example 32 sq. feet of eastern white pine is $12.80 Now that's one inch thick stuff so your cost for 1/2 would be lower.. I can buy Basswood which is nice and light for about the same price and it's a lot easier to handle a 1x6 then a 4x8
for flooring I use 2 inch stuff. 2x8's usually. makes a lot stiffer floor then 3/4 plywood for a fraction of the cost..
Wow! What a state of affairs. Solid sheathing and underlayment to save money. Back to the future?
The real trick is to think outside of the box...If you let others do your thinking for you you wind up effectively working for others (evan if you think you're self employed.)
I'm building my timberframe for less than a comparable stick frame would cost in materials, much less.
I can do that by thinking outside of the box and carefull reading of the building codes.. It helps to have an imagination and to be creative.
Frenchy,
I am not trying to be snotty or anything
But---------
when you are done patting yourself on the back over your " thinking outside the box" skills-------
and finished congratulating yourself on the money you saved on materials with a timber frame instead of a conventional frame----
try adding up the value of the time you spent on that thing----I think your house will be quickly revealed to be a financial boondoggle of the first order.
your comment does have it's merits.. I spent an inordinate amount of time finding the source for alternative materials. It's true I enjoyed it and didn't really consider it labor but a fair analasis would agree with your premise.
However isn't that how all really successful enterprises start? I mean do you think Henry Ford sat down and calculated the hours he spent developing the motorcar before he went ahead? How about Bill Gates? Do you think when he was noodling around with the early prototypes and such he calculated his hourly cost into it?
Now building a house is pretty well cut and dried.. the only thing that the average person really percieves is value for their money.. Thus if you do not look for other than mainstream solutions, you will be condemned to mediocrity.
As for fincial boondoogle, according to a realitor friend I'm still about a quarter of a million ahead.. Let's see, I've worked part time on the house for a little over two years and made a quarter of a million if I were to sell. Not a bad part time boondoogle..
Excellent points Frenchy.
Of course there is the possibility that your realtor friend is just stroking you!
and a more interesting comparison might be" would I be a quarter million up if I had worked part time over 2 years building conventional houses?"
OR---thinking further along "given my usual successfull sales rate----what would be the financial implications if I had devoted that same time to selling equipment in a new but nearby territory?"
I am glad you are enjoying your project---although to me it seems like a nightmare of a way to spend my free time---as far from a dream as conceivably possible!
I do notice that we ALL often decide on something that we want to have or do----and THEN construct all sorts of mental rationales to justify granting our own desires.
I am sure you can well afford this project and I certainly wish you well with it.
Since he has to sign his name to any appraisel and there are legal repercussions I suspect that he's telling me the trueth..
Let me put it this way..
I had the worst house in the neighbor hood.. what's done so far makes it the nicest. (comments by several neighbors)
Two houses up they sold that house for almost 1.3 million. (it sold 24 hours after listing) and four houses from me it's listed for 1.7 million..
I suspect if anything the valuwes I spoke of we overly conservative (it doesn't matter since I have no intention of moving)
As for increasing my earnings thru sales, ..
That income would be exposed to additional taxes yielding me much less, much less than what I've gain in net worth.. remember none of my sweat equity is taxable untill and if I sell. I've learned that this is far from as easy as I originally thought but it's also so differant from what I've done for most of my life that it's major fun..
However, you are absolutely correct when you say we decide what we want to do and then create all kinds of reasons to justify what we do..
just Out of curiosity ,
you have a signed appraisal on an unfinished house?---just wondering.
BTW,
I am quite easily the happiest guy on the planet today. I am heading out the door to watch 7 young men take a shot at fulfilling what is to them a major life goal. remind me to tell ya about it later.
don't fall off your tower this weekend
actually yes,,
when I refinanced last spring because of the low rates I needed just such an appraisal.. I love being able to brag about 4 1/2 percent ;-)
sounds interesting, please tell me about it when you return..
same deal here....refinanced at 5 percent :). The apprasier told me after looking at my plans that in his opinion if the house was done today I could probably list it for 1.6.....I ain't interested in moving either...kinda dig this ol crib.
For Katrina and me our money is allways tied into our house. Thats our investments. Not a dime in the bank and we pray nothing happens to me before I finish the house.....lol....cause we do one ....sell it and sink that profit into the next digs so theres never a reserve. Thing is....I once heard that jailed Wall St dude, MAlcolm Milcom (Sp?) when asked what a layman should invest in to get the most outta his money....his answer was to invest in what they believe in!
MAkes me feel GREAT to invest in myself and my craft. So far its not only been great but exciting as well even though my back and hands are absolutly killing me this mornig from lifting those microlams up a story. Dem damn things are way heavy and my helper dropped his end......grrrrrrr.
Invest in yourself and take cautious risks is my theory.
BE well..ouch
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Amen to that Andy!
Now you're speaking my religion..
I have only one rule when it comes to investing my time and energy into a home, (well actually three rules)
Location, location,location!
If you pick the worst house in the best neighborhood that you can afford historically you will exceed the rate of return of just about any investment you can make without violating inside trader rules. If there happens to be water involved then you can double that rate of return..
I don't know what the rules are back East regarding historic old homes like yours. Regarding your lifting of microlams. That violates my fundmental rule about lifting more than 20 pounds without the aid of hydraulics. Ouch! I realize that you are a ludite but evan ludites could use a block and tackle. I built a three wheel cart just to move beams around. It's top heavy and not terribly stable but will fit anyplace the beam will go and one guy can roll it around using only one hand. On it I've had 900 pound beams that I can load/ unload myself that plus it's just the right height to work off of. I grab a plane and walk back and forth a couple of times and it goes from rough to smooth (as long as I don't trip over the power cord,... I'm not a ludite!) ;-)
ps,
using a microlam in an old timberframe?,, tisk, tisskkk ! Now I understand, the old house gods got evan with you!!
location is A#1 anywhere!
All my houses have always been the worst in the hood then became one of the bst.
In this 1680 house its definatly one of the top two worst (pattin' me self on the back) but won't become the best. You should only see some of deez cribs....WOWWWWWWW!!!!! Yet that still works pretty good for a boy outta da projects of NYC.
Thsi property was a pink elephant cause the house couldn't be either moved to the rear of the property nor knocked down.
Needed someone like me to come in and play in the mud.
BE well
andy
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Well Frenchy,
since I twisted your arm into asking---here goes.
I am back from a short trip with about 40 highschool kids plus misc. parents to watch their team run in the state of ohio,divisionII highschool cross country championships. I don't think I have ever had a trip this fun---that didn't involve a trip to the beach.
socially the trip was an outstanding success. Athletically, it was more of a mixed bag.
1)the team in question was making it's 2nd trip to this level in 4 years. ( actually learned that due to an official scoring error this should have been the 3rd trip in 4 years.
2) the team produced for the 3rd consecutive year the individual division II champion
3) the deam was disappointed to finish 8th in the state---for a variety of reasons.
4) got to watch one of those rare events when an kid( not my son,and not the champ either) rises above himself and peaks at just the right time. just an ordinary kid who ran his fastest race ever---on what was probably his last official race.
5) got to watch the character of kids my tuition dollars help support---and for that I feel eternally priveleged.
6) my wife and I have only sons---but we spent a couple days traveling with a group largely composed of teenaged girls. THAT was a real education for me. girls certainly view everything differenently than boys---life,food, their suuroundings,interpersonal relationships---almost anything you can think of they see differently.
My son was extremely disappointed with his performance---but I point out to him that he was a 15 year old sophmore competeing against (largely) 18year old seniors---essentially grown men. I hope he gets another chance to make this trip---maybe in 2 years as a senior.
Anytime spent with your kids is special especially if they get to do something they are excited in.. I think you answered your son exactly correctly, I might of added the point that he was there, while the majority of kids his age weren't and that alone made him special..
Your comment on girls really hit the mark! I have two girls and they are from Mars or someplace wierd.. Much as I believe in equal rights, I now understand why there will never be equal rights as far as girls are concerned..
Alas, out here the seismic codes require plywood. They won't let you build a roof with 1x8's like what I tore off this summer.
-- J.S.
I would say the OSB prices are based on supply and demand and the fact that everyone will pay it no madder what. The raising prices on gas is the same thing. We all wine and bitch about the price but we still open our pockets and pay whatever the price is. This is the case with OSB and I won't be shocked if the price stayed high for a year or two.
The prices don't affect me like most since more then half of my buildings are build with Insulated concrete forms. The only thing that comes in to play is the roof. If the prices stay where they are then The prices to build with ICFs are even if, not cheaper then a standard osb sheeted home.