Replies

1. 
   MikeFitz | Nov 03, 2005 04:08am | #1

   I faced a very similar decision last year when I was looking for wide plank white pine flooring for my house.  I visited several manufacturers, including Carlisle.  My research led me to believe that, while Carlisle's (and other "high end" manufacturers) flooring was very nice, it wasn't worth the premium cost for me.  I ended up getting my flooring from Vermont Plank Flooring in Brattleboro.  What Carlisle had that VPF didn't was a fancy showroom with large staff, a fancy brochure, and more samples/ examples of their product available.  Admittedly, the product was of a higher quality, had fewer knots although it still wasn't clear.  What I had to decide was "what kind of floor am I looking for, and how much money is it worth to me?"  I am happy with my flooring, and even though I didn't buy a 'premium product', I found I had very little waste due to unusable/unacceptable boards.  It also was half the price of the Carlisle.  Ultimately, I have a fairly informal, rustic house and only needed a informal grade of flooring.  In a different house, maybe the less knotty flooring would be more appropriate.

   To address a separate question, I believe that the back relief is important (not because I have experience with both, but because those who know more than I do have told me so!).  I could be wrong, but there is a reason manufacturers cut the relief grooves, and I wouldn't buy flooring that didn't have it.  It seems like a fairly standard practice, and I would question why a particular manufacturer doesn't do it.

1. 
   Crawdad | Nov 10, 2005 06:22am | #3

   Thanks for the advice Mike

2. 
   Piffin | Nov 03, 2005 04:40am | #2

   If I were face nailing, the lack of relief cuts would not bother me. If i were gluing and blind nailing the tongues, I would want the relief cuts. Either way, i would want to have it well seasoned and aclimated before beginnign to install.

   Try out the search button here. it's a gamble, but you may find some long discussions on this subject of wide plank or wide pine floors

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   Crawdad | Nov 10, 2005 06:25am | #4

   Thanks for the advice Piffin.  If we go the WP route I had planned on face nailing and PL adhesive.  Would there be a problem w/ that or do you only use glue when blind nailing?

1. 
   Piffin | Nov 10, 2005 07:52am | #5

   glueing is a pain, but I think it is always good with wide plank flooring 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   Crawdad | Nov 10, 2005 01:41pm | #6

   Thanks again.

1. 
   andybuildz | Nov 10, 2005 03:23pm | #7

   I did one room with Carlise and the entire rest of my house with Timberknee. Timberknees material was just as nice...Carlisle did give me a lot extra for free apparently which might not be helpful to you if you don't need it. Also I may have just gotten lucky.
   I glued with PL and face nailed with rose head nails. the WP was not T&G. I didnt wantthe T&G. Didnt find it necessary. So far...almost two years later I have had zero problems with their products or my installations.
   I was very happy w' timberknee. They even threw me a bunch of 19" planks which was nice of them.They do have sales so keep a look out.
   By the way....all these companies broker out their merch from different suppliers so its always hit and miss.
   Be floored
   andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

   When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

     I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

   I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

   I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

   and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

    

    

    

    

2. 
   Sailfish | Nov 10, 2005 05:39pm | #9

   Did you or anyone go with the "antique cut nails" to install? I know carlisle has them but they are pricey  ($235 for 50#).

   I explored/wondered if todays standard cut nail would work for installation.

   What is the "rose" nail mentioned?

    

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    

   WWPD

3. 
   andybuildz | Nov 10, 2005 07:45pm | #10

   Rose head looks like a handmade cut nail ( because they are)with an irregular rose type looking head. Yeh, they are expensive, but so is the flooring. I got mine from "Tremont". Google them. They supply all the flooring companies but you can go to them direct as I did. Still expensive. Wanna buy 25 lbs offa me..I still have half a box left. Probably isn't worth it though..Check out their website. You can buy less than 50#. http://www.tremontnail.com
   Be well
   a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means.. I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides, I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace. I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

   Edited 11/10/2005 11:47 am ET by andybuildz

4. 
   VaTom | Nov 10, 2005 09:52pm | #11

   My experience with cut nails and wide pine flooring was in the old part of an 18th c. house here.  No telling what was original, but it was a constant chore to deal with the cut nails when they worked loose.  Whenever I was out there I spent an hour or few crawling around the floors, feeling for nail movement.   

   This was a no-shoes house and those nails were really tough on socks, and feet, when they raised their heads.  I finally convinced the owners to let me remove the nails when they reared their ugly heads.  My solution was trim head screws, covered by a very short piece of cut nail, glued in place.  Probably a travesty, but they also let me add a butterfly spline under one of their antique dining tables.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

5. 
   MikeFitz | Nov 11, 2005 12:49am | #12

   I used rose heads from Tremont as well.  If you are anywhere near Vermont, let me know,  I have a bunch left over.  Here are a few pics of the floor with top nailing (I don't have any that don't also include my daughter so just pretend she's not there).

    

    

   
6. 
   Piffin | Nov 11, 2005 02:17am | #14

   those photos are precious! Impossibhle to ignore her!I'm even saving those to my disc 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

7. 
   MikeFitz | Nov 11, 2005 04:15am | #16

   Thanks- she's a good egg.  We wouldn't return her even if we could find the receipt.

8. 
   dieselpig | Apr 17, 2009 03:35am | #18

   Mike, beautiful looking floor.  And a beautiful daughter as well.  Ya done good on both counts.View Image

9. 
   Bish | Nov 11, 2005 03:36am | #15

   I installed some western ponderosa pine plank about 8 years ago when I built our most recent home. It runs thru all main living area, kitchen, and master bedroom, with radiant heat underneath. I tongue and grooved it myself in my shop, installed over felt paper, and nailed with cut masonry nails thru face on joist layouts. There is no backcuts, and no glueing as it's over felt. I've had minimal movement, and no loose nail problems whatsoever. Nails were very inexpensive and we've had tons of comments on our "antique floors with old cut nails". Hint: Golden retrievers, yellow labs, and rotwiellers do a very good job of distressing wide plank wood floors quickly, and they work for food! Now, if I could only train them to refinish!

10. 
    shawncal | Apr 17, 2009 02:39am | #17

    How do you refinish the plank floors if they are face nailed (or don't you ever sand them)?

    Just curious, as I am gearing up to install some old plank flooring and considering my options.

     Shawn

11. 
    andybuildz | Apr 17, 2009 06:19am | #19

    shawn...I set my nails then sanded them. Eastern white pine wide plank flooring is what I used through my entire house pretty much and it's a much more labor intensive installation and finishing job then T&G hardwood that you normally see.

    edit: I'm tempted to presand my next softwood wide plank floor job before I install them. Once installed a quick once over then stain and finish.

    anyone ever done it that way? The reason is...it's not like your conventional hardwood T&G where you bang them in tight together and blind nail em' with cleats. Those type floors you have to sand after installation to get the ups n downz out. Wide plank is a whole other animal.

     

     

     

     

    http://www.cliffordrenovations.com

    http://www.ramdass.org

     

    Edited 4/16/2009 11:24 pm ET by andybuildz

12. 
    mmoogie | Apr 17, 2009 06:32am | #20

    Andy,I find that wide plank goes faster because each board covers so much more real estate. But the hand-nailing with cut nails takes more time, so I guess it's about a wash. I still field-finish like any other flooring, using a drum or pad sander. Just have to make sure the nail heads are down.Steve

13. 
    andybuildz | Apr 17, 2009 03:03pm | #21

    Steve...On the wide plank vs the 2 1/4" T&G oak...I find that after you lay out all your pieces of oak then slide them in with the rubber part of the mallet and bang bang bang with the gun it goes pretty fast but with wide plank...you have to be on your hands and knees..stop your hammer before you make half moons..then set each nail. I find that really time consuming and finishing that floor...the soft pine to me is way harder to drum sand. the slightest chatter of the drum sander even with the finest grit leaves chatter marks in the wood..a sort of ripple down the plank. I found i had to go over the entire floor on my hands and knees after it was drum sanded with my palm sander to get out any chatter marks. Even my floor sanding guys said they hate getting calls for wide plank flooring. They've been doing it 30 years and claim they're yet  to find a sander that does'nt leave those marks here and there.

    I even tried those sanders the big boxes rent out and those sucked too.

    I noticed that Carlisle and Timber knee(I used Timber Knee) sell presanded planks now....which was why I thought I might try it that way myself b/c their cost for presanded was a fortune. The fact that they sell it presanded leads me to belive I'm not the only one with issues of sanding once it's down.

    I did most of my house in it...probably 3/4 of a 5000 sq ft house...(thats in my website below).

    Doing it for someone else it'd cost a small fortune and i may have another customer that wants it as part of the job in their entire first floor.

    PS...when ever I slipped w/my hammer and made half moons in the wood I'd drop some water on it...put a damp towel over it and an iron over that and it'd swell the wood flush again. Good tip...I didn't do that on all of them but too many dings looks crappy...not that I let that happen too often : )~

     

     

     

    http://www.cliffordrenovations.com

    http://www.ramdass.org

     

14. 
    Malo | Apr 17, 2009 03:11pm | #22

    Dude, I'm hand planing my Cedar floor before I nail it with Copper Rose heads. I'll be kissing it with like 180 Grit and a Random orbit before I nail it down.
    Then the shellac treatment..the dogs are HELL on the floor, so it'll be distressed in one day.For this place, it'll fit right in.
    But 440 sqft of plane pushing will wear out my arm for sure. I figure 2 mins for each 1x8x8'..and I think I have the equivalent of 100 of them.Uggh.

15. 
    andybuildz | Apr 17, 2009 03:36pm | #23

    Well it'll look awesome when youre done doing it that way so.....labor of love..but still labor...ugh.

    I used rose head nails here too and w/o being copper they were expensive enough!

    Although after I satined the floor no one'd know if they were copper or gold or.....so.

    The nails I used could bend pretty easily...I dread to think what copper nails in hardwoord might be like. My nails were seriously pointy though so they sunk in pretty easily.

    Gotta do 15 sections of 8' high stockade fencing here today...replacing the one falling down that seperates the road from my yard. couldn't wait one more season...grrrr...and 8'er's were a bargin at $70 a section..but I see at HD 6' high sections are $28....too bad I can't use that...grrrr...woof!

    does it ever stop? Don't answer that...I can feel the worms crawling on me already...

     

     

     

    http://www.cliffordrenovations.com

    http://www.ramdass.org

     

16. 
    Pelipeth | Apr 18, 2009 03:24am | #24

    In my own home 1x8 pine when I face nailed I used my 15 gauge pnuematic, if anything moves I'll screw and plug. So far 2 yrs nothing moving.

17. 
    Stache | Apr 18, 2009 07:07pm | #25

    I will be thicknessing pretty good doug fir I milled for wide plank flooring. Woodheat. Rainshadow country in the PNW with dry summers. Know that I need the moisture content as low as possible before installation as it will be winter dry even with a humidifier. But the posts on this discussion have me scratching my head some.My plan was to t&G the 3/4 x 6 or 8 inch wide fir and maybe run a shallow kerf or two in each. Install over 15# felt on 3/4 ply subfloor. Apply shellac or some such to underside and edges with something harder on the face. But I hear that some actually glue and face nail across the face? How do you avoid cracks and splits with seasonal movement? Center face nailing along the length makes like board and bat makes sense to me. Then others say no t&g at all just nailed down? Since I am limiting myself to 6 or 8 inch and not wider I think that can avoid lotsa crossgrain movement. But I have promised my patient wife a rustic but reasonably nice fir floor so what about some of this?

    Steve

18. 
    Pelipeth | Apr 18, 2009 08:32pm | #26

    My flooring was white pine from the northeast, T&G, finished thickness 7/8's. Air dried only for approx 6mos. When I got it home I sanded the face, prestained, stained, and used 3 coats of Minwax Antique Oil Finish. So far I feel it's doing well, not alot of traffic, but the dog does wreck havoc, adding character. Got the boards nice and tight nailed through the tongue and face nailed when needed. Trim hd screws work well too, fill with same color wax crayon. I always try and cover my bases so to speak, but on the same token I feel alot of people OVER think stuff. Is what it is...............

3. 
   Lansdown | Nov 10, 2005 03:37pm | #8

   I installed wide plank (7") southern heart pine last spring, blind nailed though not glued, no gaps or cupping yet. I was more concerned about having a vapour barrier underneath (felt). A neighbour glued wide plank (10") eastern white pine and it has developed cracks and splits after 2 years.
   I acclimated my flooring for 3 weeks, checking it with a moisture meter periodically. The supplier I used was Housatonic Hardwoods in CT. They had the best price and were very nice to deal with. Wood was delivered when promised and quality was excellent.

   I also finished with Waterlox tung oil and had great results from that.
   Some of my earlier posts regarding this topic can be found in the archives.

1. 
   Piffin | Nov 11, 2005 02:05am | #13

   That heart pine is far more stabil than the white pine your neighbor used, and you acclimated it, maybe he was not so careful 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!