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Discussion Forum

wide plank flooring – who knows best?

C1802362 | Posted in General Discussion on November 23, 2005 03:13am

I’ve looked through the archives and haven’t quite found the answer I’m looking for, so……

I’m getting ready to put down wide plank (10-18″ wide) white pine flooring in my new addition (matching the flooring in the existing house which was built in 1737), on a second floor over 3/4 ply underlayment. I’ve received bids from a number of flooring suppliers, and while the product is about the same from one to another, the installation advice varies wildly.

For example – some say T&G, some say square edge

some say glue in addition to nailing, others say no

some say tung oil finish (4 coats), others say urethane

some say finish sand, others say touch up high spots only

I’ve put in 2 1/4 T&G oak strip flooring with urethane finish in the past with no problems, but this is my first wide plank job. Any expert advice?

Art

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Replies

  1. stinger | Nov 23, 2005 03:23am | #1

    I've gotta ask.  How does the original floor look?  Joints gapped?  If there are gaps, can you see any tongues between?

    How are the existing boards fastened?  Probably nails, but if so, at what kind of spacings?

    The point of the questions is to see what you have, since you probably want to have this new flooring look like it's been down since the revolution.

    With boards up to 18 inches width, you'll want to get them in and let them spend a really good amount of time acclimating themselves to the interior, so you know you have come as close as possible to the equilibrium moisture content for the season.

    And, if laying this during the heating-season winter months, you might want to use spacers between the boards so the boards have some room to grow in the warm months.

    Furthermore, they should be well sealed with something really good on their undersides, before laying.

    You may want to use plain edges, no tongues, no grooves, fasten it down with cut nails, and hand scrape the whole thing.  Really. 

    Running a flooring sander on the whole installation will make it look phony.

    Ah!  The price we pay for authenticity!

  2. DavidxDoud | Nov 23, 2005 03:46am | #2

    betting your existing doesn't have a sub-floor underneath -

    square edge/T&G - what's your original?

    no glue in this instance -

    tung oil - plastic is not authentic - be carefull with your rags,  they will spontaneously combust -

    sand only if it's needed,  depending on the nature of the surface provided by the supplier - original was most likely hand planed -

    let it acclimate for a month if you have the time  - lay it in the heating season and hold it tight - white pine is soft/weak enough that even if expands slightly in the summer,  it won't blow out -

    my 2 cents -

     

    "there's enough for everyone"
    1. C1802362 | Nov 23, 2005 05:15am | #3

      the original flooring is 275 years old, (gaps!), with square edges and cut nails. there is a rough board subfloor underneath. The reason I may want to go T&G is the new subfloor is plywood and I'd hate to have anything show through if a gap occurs.To your point - I am planning to acclimate the wood from mid-December thru January in the space where the floor will go down - I'm in CT and in the winter with my baseboard heat it'll be very dry, so if I get the floor installed with no gaps, I wouldn't expect anything to open up in the summer when the humidity goes up

      1. stinger | Nov 23, 2005 05:29am | #5

        From Lee Valley, here is your flooring smoother.  Have fun!

        View Image

         

         

        Somewhere, maybe at this forum, I saw a photo sequence of someone that hand scraped a new hardwood floor installation, to obtain an antique look.  It really turned out well.

        You have a great excuse to buy a wonderful tool.  Go for it.

      2. experienced | Nov 23, 2005 06:06am | #6

        quote:   "if I get the floor installed with no gaps, I wouldn't expect anything to open up in the summer when the humidity goes up".

        But it may cup. The wider the wood action, the higher the cup ridge may be!! I've seen this with 3+1/2 inch oak aclimatized and laid in Jan/Feb. You don't want to aclimatize to any season but be laid with a moisture content that is between the dry season and moist season extremes. For example (from memory quite a few years old so don't quote me), in the notheast, oak was to be between 9-11% before laying no matter what the season while it had to be 7-10% for the dry southwest

        1. stinger | Nov 23, 2005 06:19am | #7

          That is why I advised in my earlier post to use spacers to purposely gap the boards when installing.

          These boards are up to 18 inches in width!  Installation time is in January in the winter in a heated house!  The 8 inch pine flooring boards in our old summer camp cup up when they swell with the summer humidity.

          While "tight when installed in the heating season means good'n'tight in summer" applies to, say, red oak strip flooring at 2-1/4" widths, we have a quite special condition here with these super-wide pine planks.

        2. C1802362 | Nov 23, 2005 07:12am | #8

          Now you've got me worried - the moisture content of the flooring will be 6-8% when nailed down, but in the summer here the humidity can get pretty high. however, my neighbor's wide plank floors that have been down and dirty for over two hundered years have small gaps, but no cupping. what's the secret of the 'ancient' floors?

          1. experienced | Nov 23, 2005 07:47am | #9

            The #'s I was remembering for oak were from the National Oak Flooring Association, I believe. Another good source for info is the Forest Products Laboratory division of the US dept of Agriculture.

          2. Lateapex911 | Nov 23, 2005 08:14am | #10

            18"?? Hard to imagine they won't move....quite a bit. Is the place air conditioned???  That would help of course, but CT can be VERY humid in the summer.

            Maybe the old floors are older growth, tighter grain?

            I think...that I would coat each board all 6 sides..esp the ends, and still allow for a bit of expansion.

            Where in CT are you from?Jake Gulick

            [email protected]

            CarriageHouse Design

            Black Rock, CT

          3. C1802362 | Nov 24, 2005 01:28am | #13

            The house isn't air conditioned, but if things get really bad, we usually stick an air conditioner in the window - I'd wager we only turn on the window unit two or three times a summerI'm in South Windsor

          4. DavidxDoud | Nov 24, 2005 01:54am | #14

             I've received bids from a number of flooring suppliers, and while the product is about the same from one to another...

            I wonder about this statement - 18" wide floor boards are definately a custom item - are the suppliers offering 'reclaimed' wood?  or recently cut from 3rd growth timber?  kiln dried I assume,  but stored for how long where?

            I seldom deal with white pine here in Indiana,  but I do a lot of work with wide board poplar which has properties similar to white pine - cracks are a bigger issue over the long term than cupping from expansion - 

             boards behave best with vertical (quartersawn) grain - if flat sawn (flatsawn 18" board would be from a 'big' tree),  the heart side of the board should face up - that way the natural tendency to cup will result in the center of the board raising slightly,  rather than the edges - a much preferable circumstance -

            the other situation that results in bad behaviour is a moisture differential between the top and bottom of the board - unconditioned space under the floor results in moisture migration from below to above,  hence the bottom of the floor board is wetter than the top,  expands,  and this causes cupping -

            one thing you could consider rather than T&G or shiplap is a loose spline - boards are grooved on both edges and a spline is inserted as the floor is layed - done this way you don't loose the 1/2-3/4" width off the board from the machining of the tongue -

             

             "there's enough for everyone"

          5. C1802362 | Nov 24, 2005 04:53am | #16

            this is old growth new lumber, air dried for about a year, then kiln dried to 6-8% when ordered. Its not pur quartersawn, but pretty close - the boards I looked at at any of the suppliers had growth rings very near verticalI should have no moisture differential problem - its on the second floorthe board cost is for the full face width - the price is the same whether its T&G or square edge

          6. Piffin | Nov 24, 2005 05:33am | #17

            "no moisture differential problem - its on the second floor"If you do not back seal, you will have a differential problem. best way to keep any wood from absorbing moisutere from its environment unevenly is to put equal number of saeal coats on both sides. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          7. ClevelandEd | Nov 24, 2005 05:45am | #19

            I like that idea of coating the backside of the floorboards. 

          8. notascrename | Nov 27, 2005 03:37pm | #33

            hello, the "crush factor" is called compression set.can be a real problem in boatbuilding. the board edge once set will not re-expand when the weather dries the board. i put down a 16-20 inch wide floor about 20 years ago and it crawled all over the place. In desperation I used a saw and cut out as much of the subfloor as I could from under neath. the floor was flat in a month and has not moved since i built a matching false ceiling underneath that is well ventilated. be sure to darked the edges or toungs or splines or whatever wood may show when the boards shrink. good luck.

             

             

             

             

          9. Bish | Nov 28, 2005 03:46am | #37

            I would use either a t&g or a shiplap joint. You will get some gaps but that will keep the depth of the gap shallower for cleaning purposes, and hide seeing down to your plywood. If it's old growth, that will help minimize movement. I used cut masonry nails on my floors and they worked and looked great without much expense. On that wide of plank I might glue with a polyurethane construction glue, but I would only apply it on about the center 2 thirds of plank width. This would still let the board have some total movement and minimize the glue causing splits. I wouldn't use polyurethane for the finish. Used it on mine and regreted it. Now I need to decide wether to completely sand off at refinish time and lose all those great distress marks my kids and dogs have made free of charge or just lite sand and recoat.

          10. andybuildz | Nov 28, 2005 07:50am | #39

            I wouldn't use polyurethane for the finish. Used it on mine and regreted it.>>>>>>>How come????I used it on all but one of my installations and never had a problem and they look fantastic well over a year and much abuse later. All matte finish and they don't have that plastic look what so ever.
            I found the Waterlox ( that I used in my living room) to be by far, less durable and a pain in the azz to use.
            Just wondering.
            andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

            When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

              I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

            I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

            I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

            and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

             

             

             

             

          11. andybuildz | Nov 28, 2005 07:58am | #40

            One other thing...I also used PL Premium (poly glue) on all the floors I glued down with no problems down the line. I did get a lot of flack here for using poly glue with some claiming it wouldn't allow movement but I haven't found this to be true at all through many many seasons and abuse. Zero cracks, next to no shrinkage and zero cupping.
            Maybe the wood just likes me LOL : )Maybe I'm should shut my mouth...you know, bad luck saying all this...lol.By the way...the living room, I used Carlisle Floor and the entire rest of the house I used Timberknee.It was a tremendous amt of flooring!!
            Of course the 325 year old floor I refinished doesn't even compare in the slightest to ANYTHING you can get today!!!
            Be well
            andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

            When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

              I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

            I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

            I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

            and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

             

             

             

             

          12. Bish | Nov 28, 2005 05:18pm | #41

            Andy, I guess what I was thinking more of was how quickly our dogs wore thru the finish with the polyurethane. Once they scratched thru it, the only good fix is to sand entire floor and recoat. I'm wondering if I had used an oil type finish if it would be easier to just recoat the scratched areas, no resanding. Of course the cheapest way would be get rid of the dogs, but my wife would leave then too. In retrospect, I guess my advice might of been hasty for someone without big energetic animals running around. Then again, when the wife brings her Llamas inside, they don't seem to hurt the floor at all!

          13. andybuildz | Nov 28, 2005 06:30pm | #42

            Then again, when the wife brings her Llamas inside, they don't seem to hurt the floor at all!>>>>>Spose that means I have a good argument for my wife being I wanna raise Alpaca when we move to Northern Calif.I cut my Belgium Tervurian Shepard's nails pretty short after I had the floors finished and so far so good.The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

            When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

              I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

            I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

            I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

            and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

             

             

             

             

          14. experienced | Nov 27, 2005 06:32am | #32

            The 200 year old house I did a lop of my "learning" on had the double groove/spline system for the 2" hand planed on one side 8-12" pine plank floors.

          15. Piffin | Nov 24, 2005 04:51am | #15

            I'm late to the party, but Let's see what I can add to th econclusion or confusion...hope I remember it all...Too bad they can't get the searach function to work. We discuss wide plank floors about once a month here. Try the advaced seaarch?One thing that can have an effect is whether the space under this floor is finished or not, heateed or not, damp or dry..using glue can help minimize movement, but it is still a matter of art as much as science to figure the movement. Modsern white pine could move at least half an inch in some houses.So what you want to do is guess well at how much yours might, and do things to resist that, and thenmore things to fight it, and then some things to allllow for it.Face nailing with hand cut nails helps
            Gluing helps
            Back sealing first helps
            Acclimating helps - be sure to use stickers and a fan. I know a guy who jujst stacked it in bunldes and covered it with plastic and thought that a month there would be enough to acclimate HAH!on edging. I wouldn't do it without T&G. I like to install with the flooring gun no matter what final it gets, then handnail after it is down. Much faster that way.I agree with Doud, pine has a 'crush factor that prevents some cupping. But don't count on this new lumber having the same movement factors as the aged one in place. Even if same species exactly, it is not the same wood harvested back then. I would expect movement of 3/16" or so even doing everything you can to minimize it. The pine can easily take an eighth inch of bruising come summer, so if you allow a dime space or a matchbook cover now with dry lumber, you should end up happy.On the sanding - if you are going to stain it with a colour, you have to sand, at least enough to get the mill glaze off, or the white opine will not accept the stain evenly. Even at that, a conditioner can help make it better.For an antique look, the Waterlox is your best finish bet, but it is more time consuming.but that's just one man's opinion.
             

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          16. ClevelandEd | Nov 24, 2005 05:43am | #18

            I get Summer cupping. 

            This is with Oak and maybe a 6" wide board.  So your experience will be different.

            However, if it cups you'll probably regret having done it that way.  

        3. DavidxDoud | Nov 23, 2005 03:59pm | #12

          But it may cup. The wider the wood action, the higher the cup ridge may be!! I've seen this with 3+1/2 inch oak aclimatized and laid in Jan/Feb...

          ya,  but...species makes a difference - white pine is soft and weak (relatively) and has quite a bit of 'crush' factor compared to oak -

           "there's enough for everyone"

      3. kate | Nov 24, 2005 06:30am | #20

        Lay 15 lb. felt on top of your subfloor.  leave your boards square, like the old ones, & if they gap it won't be noticible.  Another way I've seen old floors laid is with half-lap joints.  Felt paper still prevents squeaks, & disquises any open joints.

        Great project!  Keep us posted.

        1. Lansdown | Nov 24, 2005 06:58am | #21

          I've spoken to plenty of flooring installers and to reps (actually a chemist) from Waterlox and a rep from Penofin. They were all against backsealing. Flooring is not subject to the weather conditions of exterior siding or decking where backsealing is beneficial. You don't want to lock in or out moisture by completely sealing the boards.

          1. Piffin | Nov 24, 2005 07:18am | #22

            Yes, you do. I don't care what the experts say. I have real world experience. The bottom side will absorb moisutre and expand while the top will absorb far less and stay closer to the same size. The result is cupping. gauranteed! 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. MrJJ | Nov 25, 2005 05:42pm | #26

            To avoid cupping, if you don't use a vapour barrier, you have to glue the boards down, esp. if they are wider than 5 inches.-------------------------------
            People are entitled to their own opinions; People are not entitled to their own truth.Jacob

          3. Lansdown | Nov 26, 2005 05:42pm | #30

            My floors have not cupped that is real world experience. The installer I spoke to specializes in this field, his hundreds of installations have not cupped and that is his real world experience.

          4. Piffin | Nov 27, 2005 04:23am | #31

            I can't match his hundreds. I've only got a couple dozen. That must make me wrong 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          5. andybuildz | Nov 27, 2005 06:27pm | #34

            I can't match his hundreds. I've only got a couple dozen. That must make me wrong>>>>>>>

            The ones I didnt glue but face nailed didnt cup either. Not even the 18" planks.

            The glued ones certainly haven't cupped.

            My question to you is why do you have so many cupped floors? I'm guessing you didn't install them but it seems odd to me so many you've come accross have in fact have cupped. Why in your opinion have those acted this way and mine or T's haven't? We also live near the water.

            Were they possibly installed to tight to the walls?

            Being floored by this

            andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

            When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

              I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

            I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

            I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

            and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

             

             

             

             

          6. Piffin | Nov 28, 2005 03:29am | #36

            What makes you think I have cupped floors? I don't think I said that.I have seen plenty of them though and it is mostly when there is high humidity and no back sealing 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          7. andybuildz | Nov 28, 2005 07:44am | #38

            What makes you think I have cupped floors? I don't think I said that.>>>>YOU SAID:
            <<<<I can't match his hundreds. I've only got a couple dozen. That must make me wrong>>>>>>>And I said was that I didnt think they were ones you installed but was wondering about that is all because I personally never had that experiance and would like to keep avoiding it being that I've personally installed thousands of sq feet of very wide planks with glue and without... but all were face nailed.
            I donno...go back and read what I asked you or not.its not all that important...oiy
            Be well bro
            andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

            When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

              I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

            I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

            I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

            and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

             

             

             

             

      4. User avater
        CapnMac | Nov 28, 2005 07:33pm | #43

        and I'd hate to have anything show through if a gap occurs.

        You could cut a bevel instead of a square butt, you'd get the same gaps, but no (less) chance of seeing ply underneath. 

        Alternately, use a half-lapping rabbet--the trick there being that the nail spacing won't likely match (you'll need to back the cut nails away from the rabbetted edges to prevent splitting.

        Sheesh, it's Monday after a long w/e, ain't it?  Just occured that what you really need is to just paint the subfloor a nice, uniform, grain on the ply-killing dark color.  The open & close butt jointing on the original floors probably just shows a really dark board s/f; might as well make the new match, sort of.

        Hmm, curiosity:  Are the originals nailed to a pattern?  Did the middles get nailed as well?  Any sign of original paint or a painted floor cloth (both likely in that much history)?Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

  3. JeffSmallwood | Nov 23, 2005 05:16am | #4

    Like the other guys have said, I would try to follow the procedures done with the orig. floor to some extent. It seems as though, from past times this sort of topic has came up, that face nailing with cut nails and acclimating the flooring is all very important. Also watch humidity for awhile after install, of course.

  4. QCInspector | Nov 23, 2005 01:01pm | #11

    May I suggest that instead of T&G, that you shiplap the boards. You won't see the subfloor through the gaps and you can make the laps wide enough to allow for the range of movement during the seasonal swings. Routering along the planks would probably be the easiest, unless you prefer to do it by hand with a rabbiting plane :-). If you know how much the gaps in your old floors change seasonally then you can allow for that movement and install them with about the same. Or if you want a more precise way to pregap, here is a link to a site that calculates wood shrinkage.

    http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/shrinkulator.htm

  5. Jeff | Nov 24, 2005 08:10am | #23

    If you were in a location with very little change from summer MC(moisture content) to winter, I'd say go for installing the 18" wide pine.  However, if you have cold winters and humid summers, you can expect a minimum 6% change in MC and perhaps as much as 12%.  With a 6% change in MC, your 18" quatersawn eastern white pine will move about 1/16".  If western white pine, make that 1/8".  Plainsawn for both species will be about 1/4."

    Looking at these potential movement numbers (1/2 inch with plainsawn, western white pine with 12% MC change, extreme assumptions) and my personal experience with 6" plainsawn birch plank flooring, forget nails.  I'd stay away from plainsawn pine and nails at those widths.  Go with quartersawn wood and screws and plugs or select a different width of wood.  Also, consider a chamfered edge where the boards meet.

    As far as finishes, tung oil offers no long term vapor protection.  Stay away from the installer who recommended this.  As far as practical finishes, varnish would only be topped by an epoxy/varnish (used in marine applications) in vapor protection.  However, I believe no finish is an absolute barrier to changes in MC over an extended period of time.

    Disclaimer, I'm not a floor installer, but a knothead who belatedly read Bruce Hoadley's book "Understanding Wood" while seeking a solution to a problems with my plank flooring.

     

    1. Piffin | Nov 25, 2005 03:36am | #24

      True, there is no absolute moisture stop finish, but the layup does slow moisture absorbtion and the effects 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. Jeff | Nov 25, 2005 06:52am | #25

        Piffin,

        Had the installer of our plank floors followed your advice of finishing the backs of the boards, we probably wouldn't have had the cupping we did.  In Spokane our changes in MC probably aren't greater than 4%, but that our using the fireplace during the holidays produced cupping and gaps that required refinishing and other expensive measures.

  6. andybuildz | Nov 25, 2005 06:01pm | #27

    Did my entire house over a year ago with eastern white pine wide plank. Some planks are as wide as 18" or better.
    Did different rooms differently to experiment. So far all the rooms haven't budged a milimeter.
    Some rooms I glued and face nailed with rose head cut nails. Some rooms I used red rosin paper and no glue and face nailed.
    All boards are square edged.
    I stacked and stickered all boards for over a month in the rooms.
    I let the boards sit after I installed them for over a month and filled any gaps between them that bothered me with elmers water base wood putty.
    I sanded all the floors with drum sanders then went over the entire thing with a ROS to get out all the chatter marks...ugh.
    Stained with a mix I came up with.
    Minwax 1 part cherry 3 parts english chestnut and one part thinner.
    I used a matte finish oil poly (three coats) in most of the house and waterlox (five coats)in the living room. If I ever did it again I'd only use poly on a job this size. Waterlox is a pain. Poly looks great to me. With a matte finish it doesn't have that plastic look "at all" and is hands down way more durable than the waterlox...trust me!!

    After well over a year not one drop of wood filler has come loose so....I think that says something about the installation.
    Be floored
    andy

    The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

    When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

      I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

    I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

    I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

    and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

     

     


     

     

    1. C1802362 | Nov 26, 2005 03:10am | #28

      thanks - real world experience - just what the doctor ordered!One question - is your home air conditioned during the summer during periods of high humidity?Art

      1. andybuildz | Nov 26, 2005 04:16pm | #29

        One question - is your home air conditioned during the summer during periods of high humidity?>>>>>Yes....and is even heated in the winter with real radiators not my Vermont dry your skin out Castings wood stove : )
        Be conditioned air we breathe
        andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

        When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

          I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

        I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

        I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

        and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

         

         

         

         

      2. User avater
        Lawrence | Nov 27, 2005 08:45pm | #35

        Likely that old floor of yours would have been put down near wet--likely 2" thick boards. As the sugar deteriorates and the wood antiques cupping and shrinkage is minimized. We had to match a 200 year old Doug fir floor in a home here. Large gaps were imitated using KD lumber by laying string between the boards. The nails were most similar to horseshoe nails... we were actually able to purchase them long enough locally. (farm supply)

        Wider boards are not going to cup as much as younger growth trees.. the grain is more stable.

        The floors were hand planed smooth originally, so if you really want the authentic look... put her down rough and get your excercise. With decent planes it is likely easier than you might think.

        Flaws and knots are all part of the deal. If you are using KD you may find knots getting loose etc. We often drilled them out, then cut plugs with large tapered plug cutters matching the grain as close as we can.

        If indeed you are pondering putting it down green... and planing, and sanding a bit by hand the really authentic way to finish... Orange Shellac and wax was typical. Just like furniture was done.

        Putting down building paper or tarpaper beneath will help keep squeaks to a minimum.

        After 200 years you would expect that those floors would have been finished and refinished 5 or 10 times--that's why it's thinner--and that's why there's no cupping efident. It may have cupped in the first 10 or so years... but that's gone now.

        If you are putting it down green it may be an idea to try decking trim screws... without piloting. It will cause a barely evident scar that can be puttied effectively.

        What would they have used for putty?  Pine Tar mixed with sawdust, shellac mixed with dust ?

        Good Luck... have fun.

        LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!

  7. C1802362 | Nov 22, 2009 06:56am | #44

    Hello all,

    Four years ago I was looking for some advice on the floor I was putting down in the new addition of my 1737 colonial. Thanks to everyone who gave an opinion - it really helped.

    There was a lot of discussion about nailing, edge style, finishing, etc. Four years later, the floor looks great, and so in the interest of giving some data for everyone to chew on...

    Here's what I did:

    eastern white pine flooring, 13, 15, 17, and 18 inch wide planks
    3/4 plywood subfloor
    approximately 500 square feet of coverage
    wood acclimated during October and November 2005, installed December 2005
    plank edges tongue and groove, blind nailed every six inches or so
    face nailed with horseshoe nails 3-4 across plank on ~24 inch spacing along plank
    face nail holes pre-drilled to prevent splitting
    no finish sanding
    3 coats tongue oil with light sanding between coats

    After four years, finish is still good. No cupping, no split ends, no apparent wood movement. No gaps have appeared between the planks - everything looks as good as the day it was installed (well there's there's some normal wear and tear - nothing a touch up can't fix)

    My house is in central Connecticut. No air conditioning, baseboard heat in the winter. We run a window a/c unit for no more that three days a year.

    So, I have a great floor, a happy wife, and want to express my gratitude to the members of breaktime!

    Art

    1. User avater
      mmoogie | Nov 22, 2009 02:43pm | #45

      Thanks for the post. I find it amazing that there has been no appreciable wood movement on an 18" wide piece of pine in Connecticut climate. Those pictures look like they were taken immediately after installing and finishing. Do you have any more recent?Steve

      1. C1802362 | Nov 22, 2009 11:25pm | #46

        You are correct - the pictures I posted were of the floor when it was laid down.Here are some pics I took today....as you can see there's a line demarcating the rug that covers a portion of the floor - seems the tung oil isn't UV proofArt

        1. User avater
          Matt | Nov 23, 2009 12:07am | #47

          Many if not most floor finishes will give the same effect when some of the floor is covered and some is not.

          I'm amazed at the stability of the wide boards too.  Was anything put betweeen the finish flooring and the subfloor?  What is behneath?  Heated basement?  Crawl space?  What?

          1. C1802362 | Nov 23, 2009 02:59am | #49

            this is the master bedroom on the second floor. The planks are nailed to a 3/4" plywood substrate which is nailed to L/960 I-joists (I like a very stiff floor). Sheet rock which forms the first floor ceiling is screwed to the underside of the joists.Art

        2. Piffin | Nov 23, 2009 02:47am | #48

          any chance you could re-size those to under 200KB so some of us can actually download them? 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. C1802362 | Nov 23, 2009 03:02am | #50

            my bad -here they are at a smaller resolution

          2. JohnCujie | Nov 23, 2009 03:09am | #51

            The pictures I have seen in wide plank flooring ads show square cuts on the ends of the boards, not tongue and groove. Is that standard practice for this pine flooring? Do you route in a spline? Standard only in hardwood?Curious John

          3. C1802362 | Nov 23, 2009 03:34am | #52

            the long edges are tongue and groove. the ends are just butted together. The nail holes are set back about 2 inches from the end and pre-drilledArt

          4. Jercarp | Nov 23, 2009 02:57pm | #54

            Very nice. I love pine floors. I also like that chest of drawers partially pictured and it might be wise to put some protective furniture cups under those wheels since it's a heavier piece sitting on smaller hard wheels on top of pine. There will be indentations from any rolling or moving.

          5. C1802362 | Nov 23, 2009 06:12pm | #55

            yup - all the furniture on the floor has either teflon skid pads (such as under the blanket chest) or cloth pads glued to the feet (such as on the chair legs). They've been there since day 1Art

          6. Piffin | Nov 23, 2009 01:06pm | #53

            Beautiful work! 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

    2. User avater
      Jeff_Clarke | Nov 23, 2009 08:17pm | #56

      Antique Eastern White Pine, right?  (Old growth boards)

      1. C1802362 | Nov 24, 2009 01:12am | #57

        no, actually 'new' eastern white pine from Vermont, not reclaimedArt

        1. kate | Nov 24, 2009 02:19am | #58

          Where in central CT?  You neglected to fill in your profile...

          Beautiful pix - Nice work!

          1. C1802362 | Nov 24, 2009 02:50am | #59

            South Windsor (across the river from Hartford & Windsor)I guess I'd better fill in my profile!Art

          2. kate | Nov 24, 2009 09:59pm | #62

            Profiles are useful - I love your floor!  I, too, have an old house, but in a previous remuddling it received narrow oak strip flooring - all throughout, including the kitchens.  (It was subdivided into apartments.)

            The oldest part is circa 1690, but it was moved & reconfigured around 1890, & considerably victorianized.

            When I am cussing out the remuddlers, I have to stop myself & remember that their work enabled the house to still be here when I washed ashore & fell in love -

        2. User avater
          Jeff_Clarke | Nov 24, 2009 04:22pm | #60

          Going to be very soft ... heel marks etc. - but some like the *distressed* look ;o)

  8. User avater
    Sailfish | Nov 24, 2009 06:27pm | #61

    I am no expert.

    I installed this in my master second floor bedroom.

    12" Eastern (VT), face nailed with "antique cut" nails to 3/4 subfloor

    It is tongue and groove but not on the butt ends.

    It was left in conditioned space well over a month (it will remain in conditioned space assuming we don't get a hurricane and lose power for weeks).

    I finished with 4 coats of tongue oil (50% tung oil/50% Citrus Solvent)

    I sanded lightly (it was not time consuming at all).

    I look at it like this:

    It's pine. It's soft, it prolly gonna move some, it's gonna get gouged, UV exposure, beat up and overall have the look in 7 years that I wanted :-)

    Sorry for the quality of the pic, it was my iPhone and the best I could do (Plus I have to adhere to Piffin standards with my pics :-P )

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/bo444444/finished_floor.jpg

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "I suspect the only reason 110 rounds was all that was fired was that's all the ammunition they had"

    -Sheriff G. Judd."

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