Hello, I am considering purchasing a Williams & Hussey molder. I was looking for any feedback from anyone who has used one of these before. Have job coming up that needs a fair amount of custom made molding, and I was thinking of making it myself, rather than getting it done elsewhere. Are these machines easy to set up & change knives on? Any drawbacks to them, are there other machines that are any better for the money?
Also, I can see a small niche market in my area for making curved trim, esp. window & door casings, and was wondering if anyone has used this machine for this application. So far, most people have told me this is the tool to use for this.
Thanks, Mike.
Replies
most people are right.
Both andy C and I use the W&H regularly, probably others. I'm on my way to bed now but you could hit the search button to see if you can find a couple of old threads on this. See you tomorrow night.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks Piffin, I did find some info on a few old threads.
Mike.
Articcat: I had a WS7 a few years ago. It was a nice machine.
Congratulations!
Whatcha need to know now?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've never seen a W & H machine operate.....sounds versatile. We used a 5 hp, SCMI tilt-head shaper with a 3 wheel Holz-her feeder. I was taught by the 'old guys' in the shop, that made PT boats in WWII, how to do radius and eliptical work on the shaper.......amazing what you can do. Shaper's nice because you can tilt the spindle to shape things like radiused chicago bar rail....and larger profiles. With a shaper, you can use different types of tooling........shaper knives in collets, molder steel in molder heads...and remove the spindle, then you can use a router bit. I like shapers so much I have a 5hp/3ph powermatic in my garage, with a phase converter. I've been using a shaper for almost 30 years and have all my fingers, to boot! Up until 10 years ago we would grind all our knives by hand......then we got a profile grinder. Occasionally I'll still grind a few by hand at home. One of these days I'll check out a W & H. A lot of shops around town now have 16' long ovens that bend PVC moldings to ellipses and radiuses for paint grade work........mldgs are real inexpensive and look great when painted........and the lead time is instantaneous, so much for the future!
So, probably the W & H is the best bet for most people, as I'm sure it is a lot safer....it's just sad for me to see the shaper vanish into extinction.
jocobe
jocobe, you were operating a whole level above a W&H - - just as a W&H is a level above a set of hollows and rounds and a shooting board - - I've been looking for the great deal on something similar to your PM 3ph for quite a while now - I can't justify spending much money, because it would see only occasional use, it'd be nice to be able to t&g a run of wide planks - W&H won't do that..."there's enough for everyone"
I purchased at auction 12 years ago a W&H ($400.00) power in and out feed, with some extra molding knives and planer blades. Sooner or later i would have paid for a new machine, so I was lucky when this one came along. The first run of molding paid for it. The machine is very versatile and easy to set up. A few years back I purchased a Viel profile cutter to make my own knives for the W&H. The profile grinder works well , it is not a fast process to make a set of knives but it is convienient.
When the W&H is making moldings it sounds as if the wood is being destroyed by the cutter head, but it comes out fine. For a small machine it does a real nice job. I would not hesitate to recommend to someone to buy one.
Can you climb cut on a W & H machine.......for woods that have a tendency to tear out, like maple?
jocobe
I have only run a small amount of maple with no problems. I have run alot of cherry with no real tearout problems. Occasionly with any dense wood you hit a patch that may tear out. I said before that the quality of the molding amazes me for all the noise the cutters make producing it.
No you cant climb cut, but you can crank down the cutter head and do several light passes instead. I would also recomend to anyone who owns one to get the gear reduction kit. It slows the feed rate and will give you better results, especially on large profile cuts.
Thanks for the replies, been offline for a few days due to ISP problems. Found a dealer a couple hours away from me, and I'm waiting for a price quote from them. Otherwise, does around $1700 for the basic package (motor, stand) sound about right? Is the elliptical jig really worth $500? Some old threads I found kinda mentioned some alternatives.
Thanks, Mike.
That's a decent price if including th eBaldor motor. I think I paid a bout fifteen hundred several years ago, but I don't remember if that included shipping and any blades. used one tend to run about $800 and need some fine tuning like new drive rollers
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The elliptical jig is worth it if you have a job that needs round or oval profiles. Wait untill then. And I was probably the old post you saw abought the differnt jigs. I have used both and the pnumatic jig is way better than the crank handle version offered by W&H. The spring tennsion on the crank handle is way to stiff IMO and cant be adjusted. With the pnumatic you can put a little regulator on it and set it to exactly what you want.
Thanks for the info. Is a jig of this sort needed for curves or just elipses? In other words, if you are just doing curved pieces can you make a curved jig for the piece to follow, or won't that work?
Thanks, Mike.
regular even curves can be done with a site made gig
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
OK, thanks
Mike
piff
you see the pic of HArpo's stand? Geezzzz. My W&H isa lookin kinda old now..just like me.
a"My life is my practice"
Andy, Somehow, I missed seeing your old responce here about Harpo's stand - It does look impressive, folds for easy transpport and seems to have some alignment aadjustments for the motor. His motor seems smaller than mine though.
Anyway, It seems like I have been promising to post pictures forever about how I have mine set up for work. I finaly have a few, so this is the place to put them. I thinlk there were other threads too but maybe everyoine can find them.
.
In molder b, you can see my warning notes to unplug the machine whenever you open her up to the finger geting part. I don't want anyone kicking the swiutch with their knee while changing a blade. In b & c both, you can see I'm about due for new feed rollers. The cutter mounted for these photos is the plane seven inch striht blades set.
molder D is a prety decent side shot of the whole thing with my added platen board. More on that later.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Molder E here shows how small the base platen is that is build into the machine when you buy it. That is solid and absorbs vibrations but it is hard to attach guides and clamps to it, other than the rinbcky dink ones that come with it. When I was researching my purchase years ago, I read that they intended it to be small because so many millshops have their own ideas about tables and guides, etc. one of my suybs has a long base plate that he attaches another roller to . Some guys buy the machine without the feed and exit rollers to add their own variable speed machines with separate motors and speeds like that. It is a versatile machine in that way.
So anyway, I took a piece of 1" thick Medex to make my mating base plate to fit. See the photo W&H Molder.
Molder platen and molder platen B show it upside down. I routed out to a depth of 1/2" where it snaps snug down onto the cast table plate so reaadings on the column are off by 1/2". I have some reinforcing ribs that help seat it al level and locked in place with nothing more than gravity and good fit.
The edges overlap all the way around so that the stock haas more support for less chatter and I can use clamps to attache guides to it anywhere i want, curved or otherwise. I can drill in a couple of bearing rollers anyplace I want for curved work.
I keep it all slicked up with Slipit, kind of a wax that works pretty good on the tablesaw top too. That is a product I learned about here on BT, tho I can't remember who from. Maybe Bucksnort Billy.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Piff : Get yourself a dust shoot for that thing and at least hook it up to a cyclone lid/shop vac. Not having to breath and clean up the dust from that machine will be well worth the effort.
What dust? It makes chips and shavings.
But yeah, It would be a labour saver, depending on size of job and space available.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Paul
I was too taken to respond when I saw that stand.
Purty pretty huh? Looks incredable as I bet the price is.
Your W&H is the exact same one as mine.
Might look into the stand when I get my shop set up when this dump is rocked.
Mine right now.... I have set up on a piece of 3/4" ply that I can just throw in my van and then on some saw horses. Thats the beauty of the machine to me.that I can bring it anywhere I want prety easily.
I havn't used it in a cpl of years but suspect it may be getting quite a bit of use in a few months.
Your set up looks awesome......I have to get to work now so I'll re read it later
Thanks
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
so does your drive motor hang below or do you have some sort of parrallel mount on top of the plywood for it?
Pictures?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
<<<so does your drive motor hang below or do you have some sort of parrallel mount on top of the plywood for it?
Pictures?>>>
Paul,
My motor is fixed to the top of the plywood.
I walked into the storage container I'm renting yesterday to find some material and saw my lil' girl (W&H) proped up against the wall and thought I should take some photos of it before you mentioned it but its really not all that worthy of a post.
Its pretty basic and I'd sure love to buy that stand once my 3 garage barn doors arrive and I can finally move all my tools and crap outta the container.
I don't even wanna know how much that stand costs...oiy.
I know I'm going to be seriously using that lil bugger big time pretty soon.
so do you think the Veil copy machine is worth the $$$$$$?
From what I've heard it takes a long time to make a knife so it may not be worth it although.......
Things are moving along really nicely here to get off the subject.
Building inspector just left for my framing inspection and he gave me two thumbs up.
Just need to add some hurricane clips from the top of the studs to the top plates....So stupid but, whatever.
I have three guys on the roof banging the perfections up.
I've been bending more copper flashings than I'd like to admit.
I love how thats turning out.
The cricket area tween the two valleys took forever to roof.
Ties into the old roof and now I know why I lost all my hair.
So confusing. I know, I'm not that bright...lol.
Looks freakin incredable in that area.too bad no one can see it from the ground.
Should be done with the back of the original and new additions next week weather permitting...Hot as hell up there.
I love wood roofs!!!!!!
My one mistake that I may have to shoot myself over is using Tyvek on the walls under the shakes. Was put in by my archy and I had no idea I shouldn't have done that till I read about it here too late...ugh,
So I'll be the one to let everyone know exactly what happens.
Be well Paul
Namaste'
andy
PS....please don't vote Bush....lolThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I don't know the cost on the Veil. I know i would like to have one but I can't do everything myself and do it all well. They charge a lot for blades custom cut so I would / could have paid for a Veil by now I am sure. I have a drill doctor I still haven't had time to learn and set up.
What bugs me on the blades for the W&H from them is that they have a hard time reading drawings it seems. i faxed one set in a couple years ago with specifics as to radius ertc in the drawing. The fax skewed the sketch though and they ignored the written radius notes - never caled to check anything and cut the blades by the copy ofdrawing they had. They were the ones who suggested faxing but when i complained thqt what i got was not what I wanted, they said - "Oh sure, that's 'cause you faxed it..."
So on the last set, I sent the drawings by snail mail and not only the pattern but the setup, layout and how the finished casings would install so there was absolutely no way to have any questions.
They cut the bits backwards!
Aaaragh!
They were very apologetic and replaced them within a few days but it was as agravating as a splinter in the eye...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Paul,
As I'm sure you know......W&H isnt the only place you can buy custom blades to fit the machine.
I've priced blades elsewhere and found W&H to be the most expensive.
I can't remember who I had blades made by because it was a while ago but I just randomly picked a few companies from the internet with success.
I believe the Veil cutter costs about 6-700 bucks.
From what I hear it takes quite a while to cut a blade but so what...right?
Its similar to a key making machine.
I may brake down and buy one once the rock goes up here (yeh rock, not plaster....sorry : ) so if I do in fact get one I'd be more than happy to "try" and cut you some knives.
I mean after all..I just bought three Max wall guns for my roof and sidewalls at $400 + so how can I blink at 6=700 bucks for a molding cutting machine.right? Specially in this dump....lol
and oh yeh,that table for the W&H molder/planer.Spose its a must have (possibly...lol).
By the way, I've "never" planed anything on it but do own the planeing knives.
I also bought a stair railing cutter that I've never used.
You ever plane anything on it???
Off the subject again (leave it up to me..lol).
Just ripped about five sq of old perfections off the skip sheathing of the original house.
Its pretty interesting to note that......all the nails are smooth and dont really even look galvanized.
No shingles were loose and no rust marks.
Sorta reminds me of ripping down several sections of houses and amazed how the damn thing stayed up no matter how many headers, ridges and studs I pulled out.....I'm sure you know what I mean.
Building inspector was here today for my framing inspection.
I hardley have to do a thing.....exceept add MORE huricane clips from the top of the studs to the top plates....he said because we get high winds...yeh sure..so lame I said to him.he laughed and nodded.
Be well
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I plane to size stock down all the time. So much so that I have two sets of planner baldes so I have time to sharpen one set while the other can be busy. ( I have the Makita water stone sharpening system - forgetthe name of it but it wasn't cheap either)
reason I plane on it is because my other planner is the Grizzly G1017 12" portable. It will only take a sixteenth inch at one time while the W&H will do four or five times as much.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Paul,
Thanks for the info on the planing aspect because I think my machine will be working overtime in the next few months.
The thing I dug most about the planing aspect of the W&H is that its open on one end and can plane wider boards than a lot of other machines.
Be well
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy or Piffin,
Have you had any problems planning boards wider than the blades with the W&H? My machine does a great job with boards up to 7" but the wider stuff gets snagged on the chain drive. If the wide boards are cupped I have problems with ridges in the final product. Any ideas or suggestions?
Harpo
It could be the cupping is why it snags on th echain. planers are not meant to flatten lumber, only to thickness smooth it. Straightening is for joiners.
I use a grizzly 12" bechtop planner for wide planing so I have never used my WH for wide stock. There is an adjustment you can use to fine tune the feed rollers to the height of the cutters. It is the screw tabs you see sticking up when you remove the cast top gaurd. Four posts with lock screws in the four corners. A call to the company could help you too.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
BTW,
Thanks for the reminder that there are competitive outfits around. I love thge machine itself so that has kept me loyal to them, but the custom knife service has got that loyalty cracked open.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you got big money to spend get the multi-moulder, does much more than the W&H, not saying that the W&H is all that bad, just that if you got the money go with better machine.
Doug
Williams and hussey
Williams and hussey
Williams and hussey !!!
It's always williams and hussey !!!
I've asked it before, and I'm asking it again....
Why can't it just once be... Luka and hussey ?
I want me a hussey !
Dangit !
If I survive, I have survived.
But if I have enriched someone else's life, I have succeeded.
quittintime
They know better...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
>> I want me a hussey!
How much money do you have?
I posted these in the miter saw stand tread earlier. Thought the W&H crew might want to check em out. This is a Harpo & Hussey
Harpo
From what I've seen the least obvious part of using one is that you often need to build a jig to hold irregular-shaped stocks when they pass under the knives.
You can fax them a profile and they'll cut and mail you knives, which seems pretty nice for restoration work.
On my drool list...
I'm resurrecting this thjread for a cpouple of other reasons, but you do not want to use a fax to send profile designs for custom cutting. I learned the expensive way that a fax will skew the aspect ratio of your drawing and it is likely to no be to scale. You need to mail it or print to PDF and email the drawing for accuracy.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piff--
I'm interested in this one. I just ran about 1000 linear feet of 1x6 and 1x4 pine for baseboards and cornice backers through my Delta shaper/router. Using a vertical beaded ogee bit in the thing. I had to build up 16' of in/outfeed table plus a clamped on jig to hold it rock steady on the bit. With vertical bits, any little wobble shows up and ruins the length. PITA, so I've been thinking about a Delta moulding head for the T/S, or a dedicated moulder.
Aside from power and powered in/outfeed rollers, what's the essential advantage of a machine like the W&H over a Delta moulding head? I run about one or two jobs a year (so far, anyway) of this type. The rest of the time I use the shaper to build cabinet doors and windows. What would you recommend?
See below for the kind of moulding work I'm doing with this machinery.Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?