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Hello
I would like to rip out my painted woog jambs and stool in my living room window. I would like to put oak jambs and trim instead
How do i install the oak without the nail holes showing? I want to stain the oak .
Second question: Norm Abrams said on a show that he puts a three degree
bevel in his window jambs so when you attach the window trim you do not see the gap. Can anyone claify this?
thanks to all
Robert
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Replies
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~~~CLIFFORD RENOVATIONS L.I~~ N.Y~~~
If your really that particular about zero nail holes showing of a finish nail then try toenailing from the edge that the trim will cover after drlling a pilot hole orrrrrr nail in the dark part of the grain and fill the nail hole with dark wood filler or use a furnature touch up kit to paint the hole filler the exact color of the wood....As for Norms bevel cut...sheeshh...gettin carried away arent we??? Seems like more for TV then in the REAL WORLD....but if your that anal go for it....
*Thanks Andy.I am not that anal. I'm just trying to see if I ammissing something. Norm does get a little overzealous " There, a 1/32 over, not bad."I wonder if he works to tolerances that close for his clients. Rob
*Put me on TV and I'll show off too....lol
*Nail and filler. Never see it from 5 feet away.I heard him talk about that bevel too. The idea, I guess, was that the edge of the casing would be sure to fit tight against the jamb if the jamb was cut back at an angle. Silly.
*The back cut is how I was taught to make jambs. 2 or 3 degrees is all ya need. Think of it exaggerated, with the pointed edge on the inside. Make them a hair long. Now, when the edge of the trim, hits the edge of the extension jamb, if it doesn't contect at exactly a 90 degree angle, it'll still be making contact at some point.....along the point. If ya run the extension jamb a hair long, the trim will be seated on the outside edge, it will surely contact the extension jamb, and all that will happen is it's a hair off the wall right as it touches the jamb....but that's all hidden. And just putty the nail heads. Play with the putty color and stain color before hand if it's gonna bother you. Then have someone else try to find the holes w/o telling them where to look! Jeff
*T'aint silly at all. My door supplier's SOP is beveled jambs. Believe it or not , it's normal practice by custom trim carpenters.(the one's who have been around a while in any case)a bevelin' fool, John
*you callin' me normal??? Jeff
*John,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*As far as hiding the nail heads go, Lee Valley Tools makes a little thing....a chisel in a holder( I think it's called a blind nailer). You slide it along, it digs in and turns up a sliver...you nail under the sliver, then glue the sliver back down. I don't have one, but it seems like a neat idea, supposed to be traditional.
*......beveled egde???? That would be applicable to "picture framing" the jambs, not butt jointing them, correct??? I don't see anything but problems and added headache. But, maybe I'm blind.
*blind! you bevel the ....uh...lets call it ...the outside/exposed edge. The 3/4 edge that's not butting the window. The only edge where the trim can touch. Yer thinking beveled ENDS. Jeff
*I like to bevel the other side of the jamb extensions, the side that butts against the window - back edge of the sill too.
*Jeff- The way I see it is if you were to bevel 3 degrees off the interior edge(where casing is applied) than connect the two pieces via butt joint, you would have an exposed face grain(minute as it may be) at the joint...and you gain what from this???
*Jeff,Normal? Did I imply you were merely normal? Why, you're a cut above. Yeah, that's the ticket.Joe, Speaking of normal, just how often do you bite your tongue? Hope you didn't draw blood.Cheers,John
*robert, ditto the bevel. just set your table saw bevel to 2 or 3 degrees when you rip the jambs. the longer (wider) side faces the inside of the opening. i also bevel the ends of casings where they butt into corner blocks, stool, etc. just about anywhere you want a really tight line between two surfaces (learned this by lots of years working on old houses). usually 1 or 2 degrees at most. to fill in the nail holes, go to a good paint store and pick up a few shades of Color Putty filler. you can mix them together to get a very close match to the wood. andy's comment on nailing in the dark lines sometimes works with oak that has pronounced grain, but i usually find the "lines" aren't always wide enough, so you still need some light filler. i have seen the tool adrian mentioned in catalogs forever, but have never tried it. it seems like too much time for me. hope this helps. rich.
*Yeah, get some white Color Putty to mix with and lighten your Color putty to match various tones in your wood. Sometimes I'll mix a vein of "Pine Cone" (almost black) in to simulate a little grain too. That Color Putty is great stuff, with a little care, you can mix it so it's virtually invisible.
*Jim, you got the tip to keep it workable or to soften it after it dries out? There must be some solvent that works. Or is there some chemical in the jar that leaves after you open it and keeps us buying more?
*I have never had a problem with the casings fitting tightly against the jambs when the jambs were square. This sounds like something alot of you do (or at least think would be a good idea) but it seems like overkill to me.
*doesn't that make the extansion jambs tend to lean to the outside of the window?
*I bevel my extension jambs that are site built also.As Jim says he likes to bevel the edge that butts to the window, I do also. Since the saw is set at a bevel for that edge anyway, I bevel the casing side as well. I usually use a 2-3 degree bevel. Steven
*No, I shim the wrap perpendicular to the window. The bevel assures the edge that shows touches the window first, and makes a very tight joint. I use a similar technique on base for wood floors too.
*Baby oil works good Cal, as long as the putty hasn't completely dried out. I notice as I work a little in my hands, mixing, or even just warming it up, it gets softer too. I think it's from the oil on my skin.
*I have one of those, you can do just as good a job by hand with a 1/4" chissel; the trick is to run it with the grain. In a couple of high-end houses with "natural finish" jambs, I saw where the window installers run big fastners through the sash channels and use epoxy to hold the rest of the sash to the wedges (they just dollup a generous portion over the wedges so that lots gets on the jamb and the rough-in and it locks it in really well).
*Calvin, the correct reducer for the putty is linseed oil. I usually find that those colored putties are too loose and have to add a powder to them to firm them up a bit. I believe one product is called Bix Stain Putty, (designed to mix with your stain to make a putty), and another is Whitening, (or something), available from real paint suppliers.Now, if you want to get real, buy glazing & tubes of universal tinting colors and mix your own colors. Set up a little kit with the color tubes, oil and powder. Add your other touch-up devices and you are ready to fill and fix it all. Now you have the ability to mix any color, and can play with a general mix to go light and dark to match the odd color variation. The basic colors you will need are raw umber, burnt umber, burnt sienna, medium yellow, venetian red, thalo blue, white, black. Now I know we all know that you only fill with these products after a complete sealing &sanding of the wood & you all understand the importance of removeing any residue, so I won't bore you.To get back to the topic of this thread, you have a 3/4 extention, explain what is so hard about concealing the fasteners of the jamb when the casing reveal is 1/4". I must be missing something.
*Wow! Thanks for all the advice guys.I guess Norm Abrams is a "Master Carpenter".By the way, how do you become a "Master Carpenter";is it a test like "Master Plumber"?All the bestRob
*It's interesting to note that the interior door jambs come beveled. Most exterior door jambs also come beveled, but windows do not.You either bevel, booger, or hope that the surfaces are perfectly level. Beveling just invreases your odds of getting a nice fit, without fighting it. It's cheap insurance.bluePs if you are really anal, you only bevel the part of the edge of the jamb that is buried beneath the casing.
*Calvin, linseed oil will soften the color fill putty, but I usually don't have it on a job when I open that jar that sat for six months. Mineral spirits kneeded in will also soften it enough to work. I have recently tried adding a small rag soaked in linseed oil to the top of several jars sitting in my shop.remind me to check them in three months and I'll let you know if it works.Dave
*"cut above"....why now yer just fighting dirty! You sure yer the real JRS? Jeff
*Have you really done the trick with the chisel? I've been tempted to try the little nail hider tool. How'd the chisel trick work? Jeff
*Same test, but less Plumbing! Jeff
*I bought one of those Lee Valley blind nailers years ago - it didn't do much for me. Some times I fasten jamb extensions with long countersunk screws right through the 3/4" edge into the window jamb. I always bevel back the edges of my jamb extensions - like the Blue eyed fellow says - it helps to iron out any irregularities in the wall.
*It works "okay"; better in soft woods than in Oak. I discovered after the fact that gluing the little shaving back down affects staining as the glue soaks back up from underneath. You also have to be really, really careful about nailing into the divot without damaging the shaving. But in clear pine, it's almost invisible.
*The newest (march 2001) issue of FHB has an article on trimming windows.The author bevels the *inside* edge of the jam extensions, to ensure a tight fit to the window.He also tapers the width of the jamb extension, if needed, to ensure a tight fit to the window, and to ensure the jamb is flush to the drywall finish surface. What some might consider "anal", I call "high quality craftsmanship".
*Thank you, and I guess I should use the unscented kind so I don't end up smelling like a french whore. Zippo fluid didn't really cut it. Thanks.
*Whoa, an inadvertent high complement to Jimbo.
How did the linseed oil work out ?
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Hello
I would like to rip out my painted woog jambs and stool in my living room window. I would like to put oak jambs and trim instead
How do i install the oak without the nail holes showing? I want to stain the oak .
Second question: Norm Abrams said on a show that he puts a three degree
bevel in his window jambs so when you attach the window trim you do not see the gap. Can anyone claify this?
thanks to all
Robert