My customer wishes to install these foam moulding details over her southern exterior windows. She has 30 year old masonite lap siding, freshly painted. I’ve included a pic of how these things will land on the laps with at piece of scrap siding.
1) What are these mouldings called?
b) How the h#ll would you make them lay flush to the siding?
Third) How would one flash the tops (“invisibly”, of course)?
then) Is it possible to keep water from saturating the foam?
Thanks!
Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
Replies
They are called pediments or crossheads. In the past they were called hoods. Normally they would be installed before the siding with a drip cap (likely site made) installed on top of the pediment. I prefer a sheet metal drip cap as it extends up behind the siding.
Thanks, Matt. As far as installation... most everything she does to this place is backwards.
Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
I'd make a template and use a router to cut out the siding over the window. Use metal drip cap as Matt mentioned and form it to the top of each pediment as slip the top edge up under the siding as it is installed. The issue I see would be matching up with the thickness of the existing window trim. Shouldn't be too hard a job.
Thanks, Pete. That's exactly what I'll propose to her. Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
I'm no expert but I think the other poster's suggestions about cutting back and flashing properly is a good one. There are a few houses around here with big pediments over their front doors and these things were just tacked in on top of lap siding. Man I don't know what happens with the water that gets behind there...
Funny you should mention that, Mo. She had some serious water problems under her door pediment for the same reason. Maybe I can sell her on the repair/flashing there, as well.
Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
Mojo
When I was trimming out track homes thats how we installed the pediments, just screw em right on to the vinyl sidding, man did they look good!!!
Doug
Maasonite siding hunh?
Putting glass slippers on an old whore don't mean she can dance.
Anyways, we know thaat putting it in lfush to and adding flashing is the right way to install this if original, but -
That siding is piss poor to begin with and odds are 50/50 that it does no thave propper drainage plane under it anyway. Cutting in could open a bucket of worms. So do it carefully and with full disclaimers ahedad of time.
As far as the water and foam goes, that looks like Fypon polyurethene foam which is water resistant and has two primer coats of paint to begin with. Water won't hurt it. lay it down in water and let it go thru several freeze/thaw cycles and you might begin to see some damage. Leave the unpainted back exposed to UV sunlight and it will weaken. But plain old water wil not hurt it. It does require that you allow for expansion if installed in the cold. It will glue in place with PL Premium. Not many nails needed. You can patch with bondo.
This is notthe first t5ime this conundrum has been faced. I remember walking downtown Boston with my cmaera and sketch pad. There are a lot of stone facades and entablatures that are mounted with projection in front of the primary building, making me wonder where the water went.
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So, stick it
caulk it
paint it
enjoy?
Sounds good to me.
Overlayed a few of these over windows on the scratch coat before final stucco.
PL premium and a few 2½" finish nails. Worked great.
Gord
yep - sort of a scab job, but whaaddya gonna do with what you've got to work with? She bought a christmass tree ornament for the house is what it boils down to - no real plans to redo the whole house to be appropriate.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks Piffin, you are right on the mark.
"That siding is piss poor to begin with and odds are 50/50 that it does no thave propper drainage plane under it anyway".
Piss poor is true, and every house in the developement has it. 100% sure of no drainage plane. On the other hand, this climate (mid TN) allows this stuff to survive pretty well. She ain't removing the 30 year old siding on this colonial after paying for two coats of color.
How about this:
Router the siding profile into the backs of the pediments. Mount them proud (1/8"-1/4") of the siding and window moulding to allow drainage/ventilation down to the window flashing. Caulk sides and top with PL Premium, paint.
Explain to the client the need to regularly maintain, knowing full well that won't happen.Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
You can skip this step if you want, but I wouldn't. Lay the pediment in place over the window, mark the outline onto siding, cut the siding 1/8" wider than this, and install the pediment directly to the sheathing.
Form flashing to completely cover the topmost element of the pediment (the part that looks like a 1/4) except the rear should fold upward and slip at least 4" behind the course(s) of siding immediate to the pediment.
The reason for the flashing is not to protect the pediment, it's to force the water that will ultimately go behind the pediment toward the window/sheathing/siding/etc. to flow over the front of the pediment toward the ground.
Trim and/or Loosen the same course of siding, install the flashing, slip (BTF) the pediment between the window and flashing, reset siding, caulk, paint, clean, load the truck, mail the invoice.
I'd mount it over #30 felt if I go that route, but...
I'm inclined to leave the siding in place, cut channels in the back of the pediments for drainage/airflow, mount these things with some stainless screws and PL and caulk the sides to match the profile of the siding. Lots less potential for leaks and the future owners can remove them without serious surgery if necessary.
Thanks all for the suggestions!
"Christmas ornaments"... hehe, gotta 'member that.
Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
I've seen Fypon pediments installed many times right over the siding like hanging a fake plastic shutter. Just a couple of galvanized screws.
In your case with the masonite siding I would'nt try to weather seal the back, instead allow for enough air flow to allow the covered siding to dry
I would surface mount them . Cutting the siding is just asking for trouble . Scribe them to the siding if you must , but why . Hard board siding (cheap and with problems), polyurethane arch. detail (fake) ,everyone knows it is what it is.
If you scribe then you will caulk and that will trap moisture and that will be a problem , eventually .
Do the windows have any trim on them now . Will the pediment sit above the head trim or on it . Usually these design detail have to be thought out in advance and compliment the whole .To just add a part of a design is going to look ........., well not right. Proportions and complimentary design details are the other parts of the craftsmanship and built to last for a hundred years issues .
DAVE