Your aesthetic/artistic opinions on Victorian-era window trim please.
I’m using 5-1/4″ casing for sides and head, with rosette (corner) blocks about 5-5/8″ square at head joints, stool and apron at bottom. Cove & bead or possibly ogee on both edges of casing.
Many of the windows are double units, one is quadruple, and there is also one bay. The jambs between these multiple units are spaced for full-width casings.
My questions:
(1) Whether to have rosettes at every casing joint along the head casing, or whether to have rosettes at outside corners only
(2) Assuming rosettes at outside corners only, whether to cope the middle casing(s) to the head casing
(3) Assuming cope, whether to have middle casing flush or recessed relative to head. Or other possibilities?
(Rosettes at corners only are shown in attached bitmap)
My concerns: (1) may look cluttered but (2-3) may not look authentic and also involves tougher joints.
Replies
How about a rosette at each top corner(natch) and one over the center vertical casing. Not so cluttered, yet a little more interesting.
Woody,
I think every Victorian window I've seen - when trimmed with corner blocks - has also had additional blocks for multi-gang windows. I think you're right on when you say it will look more authentic this way.
I don't think you need to worry about it looking cluttered: it just looks right when you're using corner blocks.
I thought you might be interested in knowing that I've come across at least one house which also had blocks at sill elevation (instead of having a stool and apron). I'm partial to the stool and apron, but it's probably just because I don't usually go the corner block routine anyway, since most of my work is around 1905-1930.
Anyway, I'm posting a picture so you can see this full-cornered window, just for kicks. Look to the left of the photo.
Ragnar
Thanks Ragnar for your input -- I'm going with the rosettes-at-every-joint option.
I checked the parlor image -- it looks nice with blocks at the bottom. Unfortunately my cat happened to see the image too and promptly forbade me from installing anything other than "cat-width" sills! Orders are orders.
Incidentally, are those >=10 foot ceilings in your parlor job?
Woody
Woody,
Actually, the "parlor" image is taken from a B&B in Port Townsend, WA, where I was married last summer. I can't take any credit for the work - it is original circa 1889.
The main floor ceilings are a full 12 feet! The second floor is 10 feet, and the third at least 8. They really knew how to build back then!
On the subject of window stool width, my three cats enthusiastically agree with your decision. ;) My biggest, Spencer Doodle, is a 18-pounder and prefers 5/4x6 window stools -- see attachment.
Regards,
Ragnar
The "window" BMP shows your corner blocks as being about equal in width with the casing while your description indicates that the blocks are larger: IMHO, getting the sizes closer, as per your drawing, may look better.
In any case, blocks at every joint would be the more faithful to the period
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Wiley,
Attached is a photo of what I think you're talking about. To give you some sizes, I usually use 1x5 for the side casings, 1x6 for the head casing, and 1x4 for the apron, if you're doing windows.
The fillet (or bead, as I think you refered to it) is about 7/16" thick x about 1-1/4" deep, bit a bullnose on it. I let it overhang a 1/2" at the sides and bullnose the end grain, too.
The caps are milled from solid 1-1/2 x 2-1/2 stock. They're solid caps, so you don't need to put on a dust cap, like you would if you were using crown molding. If you're thinking about trimming without the caps, I'd strongly advise against it: the whole thing looks 10x better with them in place!
On doorways, I pre-assemble the head casing and put it up first. Then I cut the side casings to length and snap them in place.
You should be able to get everything you need in at least 16' lengths, so have fun with that big opening! I've done a 3-gang window immediately adjacent to a door once, but I think that only added up to about 12 feet or so.
Ragnar
Maybe it's just the way I have my computer setup; but, when I receive very large pictures like this (it's well over 100K I think, and it's the way most of these pictures are posted), the viewable area on my screen is generally just a corner of the picture, I can scroll around, or I can save it and cut it down in size; OR, it would be really nice if the posters could resize them before posting..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Ya, I was able to scroll around enough to see angled shots of about half the window, some crown molding, photos on a wall and a central ceiling light fixture. Was that the intent?
For some reason I can't bring up your picture, however, at the risk of being the only contrarian, I would would frame the ganged windows with a full length head casing, with a block at each corner and cover the vertical window joints with flat 1/4" by the width of the mull (vertical joint) with mull covers, minus a 1/8" reveal on each side, the mull strip running from the head down to the stool. A much cleaner installation. I usually use 1/4" masonite for the mull strips if they are to be painted.
Hi Russ
Thanks for your input. In my case the spaces between jambs on the ganged windows are such that the cover would have to be 5-1/4" to 5-1/2" wide (assuming 1/8" reveals). I think a relatively wide flat piece here would look out of place next to the fairly detailed outer casings.
Good luck
and since so many posters seem to close with a quote, here is one of my own:
Don't accept in your family, friends, or coworkers that which you would not tolerate in politicians, business leaders, or clergy.
Woody,
Nice quote. I like the idea: a single standard to be applied to one and all.
Regards,
Ragnar
Wiley,
Glad you like the style, and thanks for resizing the pic! Maybe you can give me some guidance on how to do that - seriously! What program do you use, etc.?
The arrow in the picture is pointing to the cap. The apron is the piece that goes under the window stool. Unfortunately, the picture doesn't show the apron that well. However, if you go back up to the original post on this thread, there's a sketch that shows the apron and stool quite well.
As to your questions: I use the same size on small windows, too. The window in the pic, for example, is a fairly small "piano" window (called that because an upright piano fits under it quite nicely). I purchased the fillet as you described, and the caps are stock moldings at the lumberyard I frequent. Look around and see if you can find some -- it's definitely nicer than trying to nail up crown mold, and the projection (i.e. spring angle) is more pronounced.
I'm not sure I understand your question about caulking the caps and fillet. I use adhesive and nails to assemble it. If you cut the pieces right, you shouldn't have to do much caulking when you're all done -- although it has been known to happen! ;)
Ragnar
I use MS Photoeditor (photoed.exe); if you don't have a copy on your machine (it comes with Office and with other MS apps), then just do a internet search and you should easily find a free source for it.
With it, the best way to resize seems to be with pixel counts (i.e. if the raw picture is 600 pixels wide, and you want 1/2 size, resize it to 300 pixels..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Wiley,
Your assumption about painters caulk is correct: sometimes you'll have to fill some gaps, but in general the goal is to keep the use of caulk to a minimum. I find that painters caulk is especially handy for filling the gap between casing and wall when the wall is wavy, etc. Also, just slightly filling this joint makes painting a lot easier.
The crown molding in the photo is something I've only seen in houses built around 1911 to 1912, and I call it a "flat" crown or "flat cove". This is because the primary element is nothing more than a piece of S4S which has been back-beveled to allow it to fit snug against wall and ceiling. The other two pieces are just picture rails.
In many of the houses (especially colonial revivals) from the 1920s, I've seen a very similar cove/crown detail where two pieces of picture rail bracket a third, larger piece. The only difference is that the third piece is a large cove.
Ragnar
I've posted a link to Irfanview which a lot of us use for photo resixing, viewing, and editing or conversions in the gallery. G there and look for the irfanview thread to download it free.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Piffin, Phill, and Wiley:
Thanks for the suggestions on resizing photos. I'm going to learn how to do it in the near future!
Ragnar