Replies

1. 
   GCourter | May 20, 2002 09:14pm | #1

   It may sound too simple, ask for a manufactures installation sheet.  I sell vinyl windows and the one which comes with a nail fin must also be fastened through the side rail.   http://www.vinylwindows-usa-east.com

1. 
   AlanSenoj | May 21, 2002 04:26am | #2

   hey GC,

   Tell me why vinyl windows are installed this way.  No attitude, here, I just have never found anyone to answer this question. Why nails only side and bottom with a sort of clamping, ie. bent over nails in the head?

   Thanks

   Alan Jones

1. 
   FrankB89 | May 21, 2002 05:05am | #3

   I have the same question.  I've been told it's to allow movement of the vinyl frame with temp changes.  Why then, on manufactured homes (trailers) they fasten them big time all the way around (probably the hurkiest construction IN a manufactured trailer...except for the concrete block skirting that doesn't support anything). Some people would bitch even if they were hung with a new rope.

1. 
   AlanSenoj | May 21, 2002 05:46am | #4

   I didn't know that manufacturers did that. Just adds to my confusion.

   Notch, do you mean trailers, like I tow behind my truck, or manufactured homes, like doublewides and trailer park stuff.

   I'm uncomfortable doing processes (ie the bending over of nails) when I don't understand the reason.Alan Jones

1. 
   FrankB89 | May 21, 2002 06:02am | #5

   Last winter, I was working on a new stick built home in a rural area.  On the adjacent property, a manufactured home/triple-wide/trailer was being set up.  It was muddy and the Cat they were moving it with crunched a big window (vinyl) in the hitch-end of the structure.  The next day, a couple guys come out in a service truck, peel off the molded shutters/trim/whateveritwas and proceed to remove the screws securing the window (about a 5-0/4-0).  The screws were placed about 2" apart ALL around the window.  They installed the new window and rescrewed it as before.

   I have no answer, only questions.  The service guys were just "fixing the window." Some people would bitch even if they were hung with a new rope.

2. 
   AlanSenoj | May 21, 2002 07:16am | #6

   Well, Hmphh,

   This doesn't answer our question.  I was hoping for an answer from a salesman, GCOURT, but maybe he's  like most of the sales reps I've met: Quick to answer, slow to understand, never have change for the meter or the barmaid, think craftsmen are dumb and have wives with sad eyes.Alan Jones

3. 
   GCourter | May 25, 2002 01:04am | #16

   I deliver windows, not sell them.  The web site sells them.  I have been installing windows since 1965, Andersen, Crestline, Pella, Anderson, and most brands in between. I just got tired of the poor quality that was associated with vinyl until I found this one.  I will take some additional time this weekend and see if I can answer all of your questions. 

2. 
   BossHog | May 21, 2002 02:51pm | #7

   Alan -

   The only intelligent answer I've ever heard is that the bent over nails aren't as tight, and so allow for the possibility that the header above the window might shrink. That would allow the nailing fin to "slip" a bit, so it didn't affect the function of the window or pull it out od square.

   I have this nagging fear that everyone here is out to make me paranoid

1. 
   AlanSenoj | May 23, 2002 05:36am | #12

   Boss,

   That does make some sense all right. Thanks for that, but still seems a little voo doo. I mean any vinyl window I've installed says nail sides and bottom, GC says sides and top. But as I'm typing, I begin to see  it's pretty much the same.Alan Jones

3. 
   GCourter | May 22, 2002 01:41am | #8

   Our windows are designed to pass 70psf wind load and this being said we only nail the top and sides with the flange and then attach the window frame to the wall members.  This also stops the unit from warping from wind load.

1. 
   AlanSenoj | May 22, 2002 07:20am | #9

   GC

   Thanks for replying.

   But I still don't understand the theory behind your nailing schedule, which is different from any vinyl window I've installed, which is even more confusing.Alan Jones

1. 
   GCourter | May 22, 2002 10:00pm | #10

   The theory is, that is the way we submitted the window for testing. 

2. 
   FrankB89 | May 23, 2002 03:16am | #11

   Sir, please clear this up, if you would be so kind.  I give you a 3-6/5-0 single hung window to install in a prepared rough opening.  The RO is pretty good, but a little out of level on the sill plate.  The structure is sheathed with 1/2" plywood over 2X6 studs with an exterior vapor barrier of tyvek.

   Walk us through your installation.

    Some people would bitch even if they were hung with a new rope.

3. 
   GCourter | May 23, 2002 07:42pm | #13

   Pull back the house wrap, apply the supplied sealant to the inside of the nail flange, place the window in the opening and shim to level the window, use roofing nails to tack the window the opening, go inside and attach the frame with the screws that are provided (three in the top and four in each side), use self adhesive window&door flashing to the outside of the window covering the flange and adhearing to the sheating,  tack the house wrap back on the exterior and tape the edges to the flashing material.  If you are using my window you will have an inside drywall return, make sure that it is still in the grove ing the frame.

   Let me see if I can clarify the point of installation.  Vinyl windows that come with a nail flange are similiar in design to the old aluminum windows.  The aluminum extrusion was ridid and could hold the window in place.  Vinyl windows with flanges do not have the rigidness that is needed to support the window in a wind load condition.

   Guy

4. 
   FrankB89 | May 24, 2002 02:34am | #14

   Understood.  And I appreciate your explaining the proceedure for your windows.  In my case, while I've installed a lot of windows (new construction and replacement) and a variety of types and styles (Anderson, Marvin, Insulate, etc.)  I've never encountered the frame nailing required for your windows.  Living on the West Coast and near the coast, the high wind application comes up occasionally.  I will inquire about your windows through my supplier. Some people would bitch even if they were hung with a new rope.

5. 
   GCourter | May 24, 2002 06:11pm | #15

   I don't think you will find a supplier in Wa, but I would be happy to assist you.  I believe that I rec an e-mail from you off my be site.  I am sorry but I deleated an e-mail from a contractor in Coos Bay.  I would very much like to discuss supplying your vinyl window needs.  The wind loads (psf) are listed for each product on the web site, but feel free to e-mail me again.  Like you, I have installed almost everyones window in the past 35 years, and yes my window installs differentally than any others.  If you look in the May FHB you will find on page 53 the proper way to install a vinyl window, the difference is my window has additional fastners through the jambs and header.  http://www.vinylwindow-usa-east.com   I look forward to hearing form you again.  GUY

6. 
   GCourter | May 25, 2002 01:12am | #18

   Alan,  you are correct when you say that my window installs differentally than any others.  I also comes in 5 standard colors and 2 optional colors, also the inside and the outside can be different colors, this includes the bars between the glass.  I am sure that you now know that our window is different than any other vinyl window you have come accross.  http://www.vinylwindows-usa-east.com   GUY

7. 
   AlanSenoj | May 25, 2002 07:27am | #19

   Guy-

   Thanks for the explanation.  I'll check out the site.

   By the way, your description of installation and sealing was excellent, good for any finned window.Alan Jones

8. 
   KenHill3 | May 25, 2002 10:35pm | #20

   Man, I don't recall ever having installed a vinyl window nailing or screwing through the top flange. In fact, there is usually a sticker on the top flange "do not nail head". Wassupwiddat?

   Ken Hill

9. 
   GCourter | May 26, 2002 08:21pm | #21

   ALAN,  I hope that the last explanation answered all of your questions.  I did not give installation instructions for all vinyl windows, only the window that I sell.  As I said earlier, my window is different, comes in 5 styles 5 standard colors and 2 optional colors all made to order in 1/8 inch increments.   Have a good and safe holiday weekend.  GUY

4. 
   GCourter | May 25, 2002 01:08am | #17

   I do not recommend bending over nails.  Our window is nailed in the flange at the top sides and bottom through the nailing flange, then it is screwed through the top and side members from the inside.  This allows us to have a wind load of 60+psf.