I’m in the middle of trimming out the windows from Hell! They are four big picture windows. Two large square ones with two large ones above that have an angle to the pitch of the roof. Nothing is remotely close to square plumb or in plane as far as the framing goes. The house is forty years old, and was framed poorly to begin with, but over time things have warped, twisted and settled so badly it’s not even funy.
Anyhow, I’m getting through all of the cusom cutting of the jambs with crazy angles and scribing, and have it so I have a plane that is in line with the inside wall framing. But to make matters worse the window guy who installed the new windows did a poor job. I had him come back once already and reset them because they lined up so poorly with one another. However the upper ones still do not line up with the lower set because the windo frame is much different in thickness 1/2″ vs 1 1/4″ on the lower frames. It was driving me nuts that they would build the frames diffrently than the other ones. The entired rest of the house’s new windows is 1 1/4″ thickness. Then today I noticed a bunch of caulking on the frames of the uppers – turned out to be the weep holes! Then it hit me…are these installed inside out?! I go ouside and sure enough the frame is 1 1/4″ , same as the inside dimmensions! ( looks like they installed new weep holes )
What I think happened is that they mixed up the measurement between the left window and the right window. But if you flip the windows around, then they would fit in the opposite oppening. Not sure if this was a factory error or the window installer ( who took all the measurements.) The installer never mention anything to the Homeowner.
I’m quite annoyed that an already difficult job was made worse for me. But whatever. The bigger quesion is, will the windows still function properly? As far as coatings, and seals go.
Replies
alright
Custom fixed glass and operable windows from some manufacturers will be / could be built differently-the key to matching them up is what shows after trimming. These details are to be figured by them and are usually done on measurement by a rep of the company.
Not saying this is your case, but
I would have the manufacturer send a rep to view the situation. Good luck.
If you can post pictures it might produce a better guess on the problem.
We get that you're a Canucks fan, but some actual pictures would be more helpful.
Sorry I don't have any better pictures. This shows what the windows look like but doesn't help to identify the problem. The bottom line is that the upper ones are inside out.
operable versus fixed...
Windows do have an "inside" and an "outside". Especially operable ones. Overlaying exterior surfaces are usually lapped for weather. Exterior surfaces might be pitched for drainage, interior ones flat. Sashes are usually removeable to the interior. Muntins may have a slightly different profile on the interior than they do on the exterior. Within the jambs themselves the sashes or window pane units are usually set closer to the intended exterior face of the jamb than the interior.
Fixed windows, especially "custom" fixed windows? There probably still is an interior and exterior designed face, but the differences might not be as apparent. Depends on the manufacturer, the style fo the window, and just how "custom" it is. Depends on if the custom unit is just a sash, or a sash with jamb, etc.
Custom versus custom versus custom.
If you can't figure it out, sure, do what Big Cal recommended and get a factory or sales rep out to take a look.
Until the rep comes out, the only other thing I can think of that might cheer you up is to post this:
View Image
There are for sure some issues related to pitched surfaces, which are now on the inside and flat which is now on the outside. I was looking at that exact detail with concern.
I am planning on calling the supplier today to see what they say.
The Bruins logo didn't work...but here is a Team Canada logo. I would blow it up, but blowing it up doesn't make it more AWESOME
yep...
That photo does clarity things a bit, I see the issue. If the flat and pitched surfaces are reversed, then I think you've found the problem.
Oh Canada? Congrats on the Olympic gold. Well-deserved.
And thanks for Milan Lucic. What a steady player he is for the B's.
I hope you haven't paid that installer yet, or you stopped payment on his check.
(I'll bet the guy realized he'd installed things backwards, but by the time he did was too far along to easily reverse them, and he hoped you wouldn't notice.)
He installed them the only way they would fit. I know this because the left window is an inch wider. Someone messed up which window was supposed to the bigger window. I don't know if it was at the factory or he messed up when he wrote his measurements down as to which was left or right and placed his order. All I know is that when he got the windows the only way they would fit would be if the flipped them around and installed them inside out.
The windows were installed like a month ago. And it was though the Homeowner. I'm just the carpenter on this job. If I was GCing this one I'd have them switched.
I informed the Homeowner and suggested he call the window installer. He called me back this afternoon and said the installer would warranty the windows, and gave me the go ahead finish the trim - so I did. Toughest trim job I've ever done, not a single piece was the same, every jamb piece had a taper, some going from 1/2" to 1 5/8" over about 5'. Some crazy scribing as well!
alright
The installer will warranty?
If he's not an employee of the manufacturer or supplier, that warranty is zip.
Best of luck to the homowner.
He apparently knows the installer, and the installer said if he ever has any problems he will replace them. He then tells me that the installer is a straight up guy so he's fine with it.
My feeling is that if he was a straight up guy he wouldn't have put them in like that. But I have had to watch what I say about the other guys he hires, as he as gotten touchy a couple times and even yelled me once when he felt inslulted that I knocked the previous carpenter for not putting in any firestop in the basement framing and framing things up to an 1 1/4" out of plumb.
It's time...
"He apparently knows the installer, and the installer said if he ever has any problems he will replace them."
It's time for him to pick up the phone, call the guy and say "I have a problem. My windows were installed backwards. You need to replace them."
Seriously, it sounds like you stepped between a rock and a hard place and are trying to keep all the bubbles in your wrap from being popped. Seems like you're trying to do right by the guy, that's good on you. Good luck with it all.
That was stupid, to leave them like that. He'll regret it in about 5 years (and will blame you).
He can blame me all he wants Dan. But I've held this customers hand and gone above and beyond what I've been payed to do. This job started when he called me to come finish the framing for a partial house gut for a rental property he just bought. I got the call because the carpenter he had, had not finished framing in the basement, was already paid ahead of time, but was not returning calls. I told him there were some issues with the framing that was done by this guy. There was no fire blocking installed anywhere whatsoever. Everything was wavy and out of plumb and level ( some of it severely ) . Bowed studs going both ways. The existing framing was left as is, ( so I guess the guy was framing to match ). In any case at one point he felt insulted and actually yelled at me for insisting that there was a serious issue not having fire stop. I told him he would need to get the other guy to come back and fix these issues or he could pay me to fix them. After seeing that all that I pointed out was true he got mad cause the guy wasn't coming back and he thought $400 to fix everything was a rip off. I was already under agreement to reframe much of the upstairs, so the next day I told him. Listen, I'm not leaving your basement like this, I will fix it and you can pay me what you feel is right. He said " don't do that to me".
So I fixed the basement, which turned out to be much worse than I thought once I brought my laser in. I basically ended up ripping out everything and redoing it, plus I fixed all the old framing. $1200 worth of time later, he agreed to pay me $600 which I accepted because he had alreaady payed the other guy $1000 for his shoddy job.
He didn't want to spend the money to reframe to exterior wall with the big windows, and I wish that I had talked him into it.
This is how the project started and gives you an idea how it has been, so before you basically call me stupid you should maybe consider that you don't know the whole story. The windows have nothing to do with me, I told him I was worried that he may run into problems, but Im am tired of arguing with a guy that insists he is right all the time.