Hi
We are building a new home with 2×6 hemlock siding and pella single hung windows which were installed under the siding.
Were told today that the windows should have been installed over the 2×6 siding due to a drain in the window. We have had some leaking this week extremely windy rainy weather and had been trying to figure out where the water is coming from.
Caulked the entire wall today with a suggestion to remove the windows from the inside, by removing the studs instead of removing the siding from exterior, and then reinstall on top of the siding. Or suggestion 2 was to drill a hole in the corner of the window so it can drain that way and cover with trim.
If anyone has any other suggestions they would be greatly appreciated.
We’d like to correct this the right way
Aloha
Karen
Replies
The windows are usually installed before the siding, with the building paper/flashing/Tyvek installed in such a way as to waterproof the installation. Then the siding and any trim are installed. Can you describe the wall construction in greater detail? Is there plywood or OSB sheathing? Building paper or Tyvek? The hemlock 2x6 sounds unusual as siding, and if the window has drain holes in the bottom channel of the frame then they may be plugged, although lots of windows are installed with projecting sills and Pella are no exception. Photos would help.
Removing the studs to remove the window would be most unusual. It's more likely to cut the siding back if the window needs to be pulled and reset, and then install trim.
Framing, tyvek, windows and then siding which is T&G - they were installed as you described with tyvek - no plywood etc.
Tomorrow I'll call Pella and ask about the drain.
I will get some pictures taken of the windows and try to post them
Thanks for your input
What kind of sill do you have with the windows? Usually the windows have small drain holes at the bottom to drain water onto the sill. With such thick siding material, these holes may have been covered up by the sill. Or, if the windows have an integrated sill, it may not be deep enough to drain the water away.
A picture of your installed window would help a lot!
Andy
I too replaced all my windows with Pella and I know of the weep holes . 5/4 trim was all I could use before the trim stuck out past the holesI believe this would allow water to migrate under the sill and into the seam and behind the sidingMy guts tell me that "maybe" a small flashing on top of the trim below the sill would divert this water--awful thick trim but it that is the look then work with it--seems like removing the windows would be a last resort.Mike" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
Thanks for that info on the windows, just this am our carpenter suggested flashing and trimming as you described sure hope it works
"framing, tyvek, windows, ....
Do you mean to tell me that you have just bare studs with tyvek over them and no sheathing whatsoever?
That sounds awfully goofy, but nevertheless would not neccesarilly cause the problem you are describing.
Yes, photos would help.
My first instinct is that it is a flashing/caulking problem.
Tongue and grove 2x6 is not a recomended exterior siding!
Capillary action and water damming at the T & G often forces water into the interior of the structure. Then possibly moving to an available exit at the window penetration.
Is there a rain screen applied?
Ship Lap or RBB board are more commonly used as exterior siding.
Details of application would be appreciated. Pics even better!
................Iron Helix
This is not a normal way of building. When you develope a unique method for construction, you have to think WAY ahead and work out EVERY dtail before it is time,
As this siding shrinks, you will have other weather ingress problems to work out. Tyvek is an air barrier, not a water barrier.
Either start over or buy stock in your favorite caulking company
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HiWe were told the tyvek is an air and moisture barrier, the plans were stamped by the building dept. and it seems to be how most homes are built in Hawaii (all not with the 2x6 t&g of course) T1-11 is quite common for siding as is hardi siding ? (not exactly sure that is the correct name)Karen
OK, technically, tyvek claims it is a water/moisture barr but in practical use, do you really expect it to keep water out of the structure when applied directly to studs with no sheathing to support it and then penetrated with all th e nails in the slab siding?Horizontal T&G is one of the worst choices in siding I have ever worked around. Since I do more renovatin than new, I see all teh failures. I would never use T&G exterior and especially not horizontally.But like I said, yours is a different climate.Who specified all these details? Archy, builder, or diy?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Definitely different climate, but probably worse as far as moisture problems.
Installed as per draftsman, builders had just finished a house with the same siding so we assumed they knew what they were doing (I know never assume) the single hung windows are something they probably aren't very used to installing most homes seem to use the sliding windows.
Window style shouldn't affect the install procedure. Water runs downhill, so all laps should always face down hill to shed water
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Khall,
Thanks for the e-mail pics....the windows are buried in the 2x wood siding with no apparent drip cap or perimeter drain allowance. They almost have no choice but to leak! Those window are designed to accept about an inch of siding depth, but the 1-1/2" t&g leaves the windows inset.
This arrangment is trapping water and is not good building practice. And I'm not sure that adding another trim layer on top of the existing will give you a watershed.
An added layer will rely on caulking as a water deterent...caulking is an inconsistent and often temporary barrier against water intrusion.
The best defense is proper flashing and adequate drainage.
I'm astounded at the use of the 2x6 t&g hemlock! Even more astounded that it was permited! And no sheathing!
Hemlock is not a wood best suited for wet humid installation environments. Typically it is installed as interior flooring/walls/ceilings and kept in the dry.....but not as an exterior siding. It would seem that it's lifespan would be short as an exposed siding, and not to mention its lack of ability to keep water out of the house envelope.
You refer to a "draftsman"....but does that mean there is a architect there too? Lots of stuff "looks good on paper" and most draftsmen can do a good job of that...but will it really work in the real world, the architect is supposed to know about that end of the deal. Sometimes it is the experienced hands-on guys in the field with good building practices that truely have a reality based method.
I would suggest finding three competent professionals....a residential building engineer, a general contractor, and a lawyer!
..............Iron Helix
I dunno, A lawyer won't be able to keep water out any better than a draftsman can.Unless he learns to think like a drip, that is.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You are TWISTED....I luv it! .......Iron Helix
"the plans were stamped by the building dept. and it seems to be how most homes are built in Hawaii (all not with the 2x6 t&g of course)"
khall,
That statement say's it all.
I've been to your state several times, and have been shocked at what passes for construction, both new and old.
A prior Hawaiian poster who worked in the trades said the same thing in a prior thread. Something to the affect of quality home construction on the Hawaiian Islands is an oxymoron.
I know this doesn't answer your question, and I feel sorry for you.
Jon
An additional concern with that Hemlock siding is termite infestation. It will be almost impossible to keep that wood dry, and wet wood always invites termites.
Here are the pictures the OP sent me. Looks like a tough talk with the architect and builder is coming.
How about this suggestion. Remove the windows and contact your Pella rep for some of their rubberized metallic tape. Use the tape to create a waterproof seal around the window opening. Re-set the windows so that they sit proud of the wall (sticking out) by about 1" to 1 1/2" (if possible). Flash the top of the window with aluminum flashing. Get some casing material for the outside of the windows (Azek or some man-made stuff would probably work well). You could use 1" x 3" or 4" stock for the casing. Painted white, it would make a nice visual statement (check out the photo I attached). Once the casing is installed you need to caulk around the area between the window and the casing.
I am betting that someone will have a suggestion as to how to secure the casing to the siding in such a way that water will not be able to penetrate behind it.
Now I know it's not the ideal situation, but you need to do something, and I'm sure that ripping off all the siding is probably not going to happen at this stage.
Rick
The men may be the head of the house, but the women are the neck and they can turn the head anyway they want.
Our architect (new one)said to take out the windows & reinstall as you mentioned. Unfortunately I think most of the siding (if not all) will have to come off. Will take it one day at a time so it is fixed correctly.
He assured us this siding is okay and typical installation of course over 1/2 inch ply would have been his choice.
As owner builder we will accept full responsibility we didn't ask enough questions to assure the carpenters knew exactly how to install windows with this siding, a costly learning experience but we are still way under budget (compared to what this size house costs to build today)
Thank you all so much for your advice, I'll let you know how it turns out.
Aloha
Karen
If you're way under budget I suggest you use some of the surplus to hire a better carpenter. From the sound of this, the guy who has been doing the work is a rookie and just doesn't know better, or does and is just not going to bother to help you make the project successful. Good tradesmen will steer you out of trouble.
Yeah that is some very bad practice.
I dont think the windows are gonna be your only problem!
Carpenter / Builder, Rhode Island