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Windows out of square

mbg | Posted in General Discussion on April 1, 2004 04:27am

What corrections are there for double hung wooden windows with gaps along top at one side of top sash. The head jamb is not level. I know stuffing weatherstripping would be the easiest short term fix, but I’m looking for something more ‘professional’ looking. I guess removing the whole window and re-installing might be the only thing to do. There are several windows in the home with this condition. Any recommendations?

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  1. FastEddie1 | Apr 01, 2004 04:33am | #1

    Need a little more info.  Are you still in the construction/remodeling phase?  Or is the house finished and painted?  Do you know the brand of the windows?  How big is the gap?  Is it visible from the outside as well as the insode?  Any chance of a picture?  Where are you?

    Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

    1. mbg | Apr 02, 2004 03:51am | #3

      Hey Ed,

         Thanks for replying. The home is about 5 years old. I don't know the brand of window (is there a way to tell after installation?). The gap is about 1/4 inch on one side at top. I don't think you can see it from the outside but of course there is air loss from this gap. I do have a picture and will try to attach it. There is a transom window over the top of this window. The house is just north of Atlanta, Ga.

      Edited 4/1/2004 9:03 pm ET by mbg

      1. FastEddie1 | Apr 02, 2004 07:03am | #12

        Anderson windows have a etch in one corner of the glass with their logo.  Look all over the concealed parts of the frames to see if there is a label somewhere.  Is there a name or logo on the sash lock?

        I agree with someone else that possibly the window is skewed in the frame, and there would be a gao at the opposite corner.

        How big is the window?

        Good luck attaching a picture.  Try to get the file size to 100k or less...use Irfan to dumb it down if necessary.  Click on the "Attach Files" button at the bottom of the screen, and follw the directions.  After you click on "Upload" be very patient...it's slow.

        Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

        1. mbg | Apr 02, 2004 02:07pm | #13

          My second attempt at attaching picture!

        2. mbg | Apr 02, 2004 02:17pm | #15

          I'll check over the window for a logo. I'll measure the window and let you know the size. I need to check the sashes for level also (and check my level). I see why there should be a gap at bottom opposite corner also. Thanks for your help.

          1. User avater
            IMERC | Apr 02, 2004 02:37pm | #16

            That window looked like it seperated.

            Look for inadequate nailing and shiming. WTB gravity got  hold of it. If that's the what happened it;s repairable.

            Can you do a tad higher resolution close up of the seperation?Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....                                        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          2. FastEddie1 | Apr 02, 2004 03:24pm | #17

            I agree that it looks like the window has pulled apart.  Since he says the header jamb is not level, my guess is that there was a gap between the window frame head and the framing, and somebody ran a screw nice and tight without a shim, which pulled the frame apart.  I would pull the trim and look for a screw in that area, or a nail, and then go from there.

            mbg...put your level acvross the bottom of the transom window and see if it is level...doesn't look like it.

            Ya wooda thot that the trim guy would have noticed it when he had to make the trim work.  Course that's not his problem, he just trims what's on the wall.

            Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

            Edited 4/2/2004 8:28 am ET by Ed Hilton

          3. mbg | Apr 03, 2004 02:54am | #18

            I'll try and get a better picture. I'll also check for level and plumb everywhere (like I should have the first time). I think I will try to pull the trim and see if I can shim it back into shape. I guess I might have to try and remove/cut the nails in brick molding outside so shims can move the frame? Thanks for your input.

          4. User avater
            IMERC | Apr 03, 2004 03:14am | #19

            Try to get the area of seperation.

            Are cut nails in the exterior casing the only thing holding the window in or is there more else where? Take the interior trim off an tell us what you find.... Any pics of whatever else you find would be helpful too...

            Keep in mind that some of us are still in the stone age with dial up...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....                                        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          5. FastEddie1 | Apr 03, 2004 06:14am | #20

            Keep in mind that some of us are still in the stone age with dial up...  There is a great program called Irfanview...do a search here for a discussion.  It will take your high quality - big file size pics and dumb them down to around 100k for easier posting.  The quality is more than adequate for viewing on computer monitors.Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

          6. mbg | Apr 04, 2004 05:54am | #22

            I'll get more pics on my next trip to this house. Unfortunately it won't be until next week. First pic was from brief exam of several problems in home. I'll try to use the Irfan to make pics easier to view.

          7. User avater
            IMERC | Apr 04, 2004 05:58am | #23

            okay....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....                                        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          8. FastEddie1 | Apr 04, 2004 07:01am | #24

            Why are you making infrequent trips to the house?  What is your relationship to it?  Are you thinking of buying it?  maybe you should look a little deeper into the innerds...

            Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

          9. mbg | Apr 14, 2004 02:05am | #25

            I have a few years of construction experience and I am doing some 'warranty' work for a private home inspection company. They inspected the home for the new owners prior to purchase and a few things (such as this window) were not mentioned in the inspection report. So the inspection company asks me to try and fix these problems that were missed. There is no cost to the client. It's usually minor stuff but sometimes I come across things that I am not exactly sure how to go about correcting. I really appreciate your (and everyone else that has replied) advise.

            I went back to the home today and there is a gap at the bottom of window as well as you suspected. It is a side window of a bay unit. The other two windows in this bay are fine. This one had to have been put in wrong. The sashes are plumb and level but the jambs are out of level at top and bottom including the transom. I now figure the right way to correct it is to take the whole window out and shim it correctly. There are a few other windows in home that have similar problems but this is the worst of them. They open and close okay but there is some air loss through the gaps. I took more pictures but I need to reduce their size before I post them.

            The window size is 2-8 x 6-2.

            Edited 4/14/2004 8:21 am ET by mbg

          10. xMikeSmith | Apr 14, 2004 06:01am | #26

            side windows of bays are notorious.. suppose there are 3 windows in the bay... 2 are plumb, level, and square... the 3d is out...

            sometimes the installers just get to the FINI point and move on..

            short of major dissassembly.. you may want to remove the sash  and plane them out of square to match the frame..

            if it was put in with the cable support system you could remove some exterior trim , some interior trim , and adjust the cables.. in any case , there is no minor tweak you can do to thisMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          11. User avater
            Dinosaur | Apr 03, 2004 06:14am | #21

            Measure from the sill to the head on both sides; see if they are parallel. If so, the frame is racked--makes you wonder why the transom window didn't crack, tho....

            If it's not parallel, then the frame has separated--or one jamb was mis-cut at the factory (not likely, but not impossible).

            Either way, you're gonna have to shim up (or down) one of the jambs to bring that head square to them. You will need to pull all the trim and yank any insulation between the framing and the window to do this right.

            Dinosaur

            'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

  2. calvin | Apr 01, 2004 05:21am | #2

    If there is a sill on that window, you might be able to remove the apron and get under the window frame and force-shim it up a bit w/o doing anything with the casing.  That is , if they didn't shim the top corner against the header. 

    How bad is it outta level?  That would speak to how much you can do w/o complete removal/removal of the trim in and out.

    Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

    Quittin' Time

    1. mbg | Apr 02, 2004 03:59am | #4

      Hey Calvin,

      The gap is maybe 1/4 inch over on side of the top sash. To add to the problem there is a transom window over this window. I like the idea about shimming. I guess I would shim the bottom of the side without the gap and this would theoretically make the top of window level? This may work. Thanks.

      Mike

      1. tals | Apr 02, 2004 04:11am | #5

        If these windows are the kind that can tilt inward to be removed from the frame, then one side may not be attached to the mechanism that allows the window to slide up and down. This can cause a small gap (1/8", 1/4") at the top.

        Good luck

      2. Piffin | Apr 02, 2004 04:14am | #6

        Is this a new home, still underconstruction, settled frame, exterior trimmed?/???????????

        old home?

        Settled frame?

        Sloppy installation?

        Window with wood casing or nailing fins?

        Yes, you might get a bit of tweaking by driving a shim, but it is best to identify WHY the problem exists first. Then maybe fix the why instead of the symptom. Sometimes it is easier to do it right than to keep fighting to hold hands with a moose. 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. mbg | Apr 02, 2004 04:28am | #7

          It must be from sloppy installation. If it were from settling I would think the window would probably not be able to be opened. It has wood casing, no fins. I agree with you about just doing it right.

          1. Piffin | Apr 02, 2004 06:07am | #10

            OK - now everybody keeps asking but you still haven't answered, is this a new house or old?

            If it is new and partly done, I would not hesitate to pull the windows out and re-install them right.

            Right includes taking care of the drainage plane and starting form a level sill frame.

            Now, are the legs of the windows plumb? You could have the same symptom if the sills are level and the unit is racked sideways.

            So get the level out - the good one - check it, and then check the units with it for level and for plumb, and double check with measuring diagonals, by then you should have an idea which way to go. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. CAGIV | Apr 02, 2004 06:15am | #11

            http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=41783.4

            ya missed, house is 5 years old...

          3. mbg | Apr 02, 2004 02:12pm | #14

            The home is not new. Its about 5 years old. I checked the head jamb and it showed out of level. The side jambs were okay. I'll double check the accuracy of my level and check window again. I also need to check level on the sash itself. I don't think there is a gap at bottom but it does seem like there would be one.

        2. User avater
          dieselpig | Apr 02, 2004 04:34am | #8

          "Sometimes it is easier to do it right than to keep fighting to hold hands with a moose."

          Hilarious!  I gotta remember that one.

      3. calvin | Apr 02, 2004 05:10am | #9

        You also say gap at top.  Is the sill of the window frame level?  Should theoretically be a gap on the bottom sash on the opposite corner.  Have you put a good level on the frame to check for plumb and level?

        If the transom is up there, you be screwed for moving the whole shebang.  Again, find the plumb level and then check square by diagonal measurement.  Best of luck.

        Where's bullwinkle?Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

        Quittin' Time

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