Replies

1. 
   jeffwoodwork | Jun 21, 2006 04:44pm | #1

   I live in an area with lots of vineyards, never heard of such a thing,  That does not mean some yahoo isn't running a class giving out certifications.  Cellars are pretty easy once you get the temperature and humidity under control.  I did find a place that had racks for sale you may want to google for it , as I don't remember it.  Also TOH had an episode check their site they may have some links.

   Jeff

2. 
   DoRight | Jun 21, 2006 05:51pm | #2

   Cooling and Humidity control is a package deal, and no big deal.   Electrical?  Minor consideration.  What people want are racks of course, but mostly slate floors, granite serving or tasting tables, brick assent walls for an old world feel, rustic mirrors.  The wine ceiler business is less about carpentry or construction and more about art and decorating.  Still an interesting business, but not really a construction angle.

1. 
   MAsprayfoam | Jun 23, 2006 11:55pm | #7

   I have to disagree with the comment: "Cooling and Humidity control is a package deal, and no big deal." That is the whole deal!! Get it wrong and everything else is for naught!Mold is a huge problem in this area since you are often creating a different temp/humidity environment right next to another. Water condensation and subsequent mold is a very big concern.Stu

1. 
   DoRight | Jul 31, 2006 10:05pm | #10

   It is no big deal in that they sell units specifically for this purpose, making it a no brainer.  Not unimportant.

3. 
   BryanSayer | Jun 21, 2006 05:53pm | #3

   Pick up a copy of wine spectator and look in the ads. There are companies that specialize in this and ones that sell kits. You might be best off developing a relationship with the kit sellers, and you can do the installations.

1. 
   barchiola2 | Jun 22, 2006 12:54am | #4

   thanks for the input gents.  it'll all go to good use.

   regards,

   bart

1. 
   DougU | Jun 23, 2006 04:28pm | #5

   Bart

   What Doright said. Down here in Autin Tx I've worked on maybe 10 wine rooms/cellers, all the way from a $1,000,000 extraganza to some modest $25,000 rooms.

   It's all about the design/look.

   Doug

    

1. 
   CapnMac | Jun 23, 2006 06:58pm | #6

   It's all about the design/look

   No lie.  Even in sweltering Texas, the best environment for wine is under-ideal for humans--so why do so many invest $$$ in making an uncomfortable storage space into some sort of "cozy nook"?

   But, I may be biased in that I did "do" one for a middling big-time chef type, where there were three "rooms."  One was for people, the other two were for wine & cheese, with suitable controled environments per each.

   Now, as a practical "thing" for OP, when designing for a 'cellar,' it's a really good idea to get with the client and find out how they are buying wine, too.  Many cellar buyers are buying by the case--if you make the access "dolly friendly" from the get go, you will get some very positive responces. 

   Note too, that there's two kinds of wine storage.  One is bottles for show, the other is case storage.  If the client is just buying a few select bottles, say 5-60 or less; they can be better off with a multi-level wine chiller appliance than with racks. 

   For the case buyer, they need some bulk storage for the cases (a "break down" area for wood and/or cardboard products will really help them out, too).  They also will want/need racks that hold an entire case, once the bottles are broken out.  Twenty-four bottles in a vertical row tends to be the most efficient, but two cases vertically gets to be a tad tall.  Some customers are happy to put the vin ordinare in the upper level, as long as the case product will store nicely (if a bit taller than "standard" counter-top height).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

2. 
   trout | Jun 24, 2006 09:50pm | #9

   Pick up a copy of wine spectator and look in the ads. There are companies that specialize in this and ones that sell kits.

   Great idea. 

   Find out what makes good wine storage conditions from the wine experts.  Dig in to what the rabid wine lovers look for and go from there. 

   I've enjoyed the designs of a number of local cabinet shops, but some are definitely not as easy to remove/place the wine bottles. 

   You can also get ideas from photos in the many books on wines.

   My favorites have had an old world/traditional feel to the space, combined with modern cooling methods that are well hidden in the design.  A heavy arched top entry door, out of the ordinary old-looking hardware, tumbled marble floors, dark staingrade woods, automatic lights, easy to access storage for misc. wine-related items, and good access to the area of the house the owners like to enjoy their wine.  Right off a living area or entertainment-friendly kitchen seemed ideal. 

   The worst designs have been taking a good idea and having the hvac guys determine where to put the cooling hardware since they'll put it in the easiest to access locations.   Tuck it downstairs in a hard to get to area will also reduce it's value as a design element to the house.

   Good building

4. 
   Hainesportwoodworker | Jun 24, 2006 07:58am | #8

   No classes I know of but there is at least one book on the subject. I've built a few - here are some important things -

   room needs to be well sealed and insulated - and don't forget to reverse the vapor barrier since it will colder in the room. Weather strip the door well.

   Two of the most well known air handling systems specifically for wine cellars are Breezair and Whisper Cool - they make self contained plug in units and split type systems depending on the size of the room. The one problem with these units is that they can't maintain the proper humidity in the rooms. They use condesation collected from the cooling process and reintroduce it into the room air to creat humidity. This works close to fine when the basement is humid in the summer, but the rest of the year there usually isnt enough surplus humidity. There are other companies that make custom systems that include separate cooling and humidity units - these systems can usually hit 0-100% humidity

   For commercial racking - Wine Enthusiast based in Elmsford, NY supplies many. Lately we have been using the non-traditional Vintage Racks which are metal racks that store the wine sideways - It makes for a beautiful look and you can read all the labels easily.

   Just remember about 55 degrees and at least 60% humidity

   Good luck