Replies

1. 
   edwardh1 | Feb 02, 2007 05:52pm | #1

   I vote no.

   And what about grounds?

2. 
   BillHartmann | Feb 02, 2007 06:34pm | #2

   Yes. Of course you need then on different 120v legs. In this case there is not reason not to use a 2 pole breaker which automatically makes sure that they are on the right legs.

   What are you going to do about GFCI's.

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   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

   
   

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   Edited 2/2/2007 10:37 am by BillHartmann

3. 
   Fonzie | Feb 03, 2007 02:01am | #3

   Like already said you can - but - I wouldn't. True, the two 120 legs are "in phase" (when one goes up on the scope the other goes down), but the problem as I see it is not with the wire but with some guy that comes along later and unknowingly moves a breaker and overloads that neutral.

   Running two 12-2-g's is better by design in my opinion.

1. 
   BillHartmann | Feb 03, 2007 02:50am | #5

   If it is a two pole breaker how can they move one breaker..
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   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

4. 
   mikeroop | Feb 03, 2007 02:34am | #4

   yes

5. 
   daFarmerDave | Feb 03, 2007 04:07am | #6

   That would be 12-3 WG: Black, Red, White & Bare/Green on a two pole breaker.  You could do it with two single pole breakers but I'll bet it's a code violation.  If you wire the up the two single poll breakers on the same bus in the panel, you can over load the neutral as indicated.

   Big Macs - 99 cents

   
   

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   Edited 2/2/2007 8:12 pm by daFarmerDave

6. 
   davidmeiland | Feb 03, 2007 08:28am | #7

   Personally that's exactly what I would do. Use a two-pole breaker and the whole thing can be turned off with one handle. If someone shuffles the breakers later in life to make more room or clean things up they will notice that there's a red wire, and that will be their cue to figure out which white is the shared neutral. If they're too dumb to do this there's nothing any of us can do to save them.

1. 
   abutcher | Feb 03, 2007 11:58pm | #8

   Thanks everyone for the advice. I am planning on using 2 GFCI outlets to plug them in, the tub and the heater have standard grounded plugs.

   Thanks, Anthony

    

1. 
   JTC1 | Feb 04, 2007 01:50am | #9

   Anthony,

   Take this shaggy dog story as you will:  Once upon a time I rewired a 1929 vintage, three story house.  I changed it all from SEP to every outlet and switch in the house.  Brought the whole place to 100% compliance with 1983 NEC, including adding outlets and GFCI's as needed.  Every room in the houses had at least one 20a line and some of them more. Since it was a bit of a trick to access the 2nd and 3rd floors from the basement, I ran quite a few "shared neutral" lines to some void spaces in the 4 corners of the house and branched from there.  Everything went great, inspections passed - life was good.

   On the third floor there was a basically unused bedroom which we only used for storage and entered infrequently - this room was above the 2nd floor bathroom and happened to be the other leg of a "shared neutral" 12/3, line.

   The GFCI outlet in the 2nd floor bathroom would occasionally be found tripped for no apparent reason.  One day I happened to be in the bathroom and the GFCI tripped with nothing plugged in. I reset it, it held, and then happened to meet my wife coming down from the 3rd floor with some stuff from our storage room. I asked her if she had turned on the light in the storage room - Yes, shaking her head. Ahah! it's that pesky old floor lamp in the storage room I thought.

   I retrieved the lamp from the storage room and plugged it directly into the GFCI, turned it on - no trip, shook the wires, jiggled the switch, bent the wires, fiddled with the plug - could not make the GFCI trip - said OK, it's not the lamp, must be the switched outlet in the storage room - no. I had copious notes and drawings on the project so I knew exactly what room, breaker, junction boxes, etc. could be the culprit. Essentially checked everything involved and could not find anyhing out of whack. However, if I plugged in anything in the storage room, in any outlet, and turned it on, the GFCI in the bathroom would trip.

   Admitted defeat and called the liscensed electrician who had changed my SEP, and overseen my work in the rest of the house, and told him the situation - his reply -" 'ya can't put a GFCI in a shared neutral line - when the other leg is loaded it'll trip every time, the neutral's shared 'ya know."

   I ran a new, dedicated, 12/2 line to the bathroom GFCI and the problem ceased.

   Maybe this is why the whirlpool manuacturer specs two 12/2's to the unit?

   Jim

   Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.     

1. 
   BillHartmann | Feb 04, 2007 02:25am | #10

   "Admitted defeat and called the liscensed electrician who had changed my SEP, and overseen my work in the rest of the house, and told him the situation - his reply -" 'ya can't put a GFCI in a shared neutral line - when the other leg is loaded it'll trip every time, the neutral's shared 'ya know.""The keyword is IN not ON.You can't have a shared neutral connected on the LOAD SIDE of the GFCI.In your case you can run the 12-3 to the bathroomConnect the GFCI LINE SIDE to one of the Hot and neutral on the 12-3. Then if you want other GFCI protected protected loads in the bathroom connect the a COMPLETELY SEPARATE 12-2 to the LOAD SIDE and run it to those loads. The neutral on the 12-2 never connects to the 12-3.And to continue the other circuit to 3rd floor connect as 12-2 to the other hot on the 12-3 on the neutral on the 12-3. No current for the 3rd floor should go through or return through the GFCI..
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   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.