Heres a bad case of gunk being a substitute for a fairly complex flashing job.
It will make the tearout more difficult with all the muck.
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Good ole "roofer-in-a-can"
.
I am not wearing any Pants....
You can bet I'll be wearing pants when I do the repairs!!!
From your kids' shoes perspective, this is good!
I can only presume you mean I'll have money to purchase said shoes after I'm paid to fix this mess?
Many more shoes now than what you could have then.
Slateman,
What a mess! I feel for you.
There isn't much slate roofing in my area but I couldn't bring myself to do that to a shingle roof, let alone slate. Seems like sacrilege.
OTOH, you've got to admire the repairman's persistence. It appears from the pictures that when this mess o'goo didn't stop the leak they tried to use caulk to repair the cracks in the roof cement.
When you find yourself repairing the prior repairs- it might be time to call in the pros.
Actually this is a perfect job for me - highly technical, not a huge area, and since no one else wants to touch it, it has a potential for good pay.
When I wind up doing it I'll take a bunch more pictures.
Walter
What really bugs me about that is that is that a simple repair by a good roofer would have fixed the leak sometimes, now its just harder to redo it
This repair wasn't going to be simple even before the 10 layers of sh*t was applied, but I agree in principle.
Walter
I dunno...when someone calls me for something similar all I can think is...Oh Goodie $$$$$$$$$
Not just some joe shmo like that other guy that posted about getting into the roofing business cause it just hailed softball .
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ : ) $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
"Even if embryonic stem cells are absolutely good for nothing at all how can anyone in good conscience be against using them for research given that they are going to be destroyed anyway"? J.Hayes
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cause i said no!!!!!!
Find any dinosaur bones? Looks kinda like the la brea tar pits.
jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
I haven't even quoted the cost to redo it all in 20 oz. copper yet.
It's really rare when I see something so totally gunked up like this mess is. just getting the old tar and deteriorated metal out will take some time. I'll need quite a few replacement slates to make up for the ones which will be unusable.
I'll get to it later this Fall so I'll post some before and after shots.
Walter
Walter,
Just took a look at these photo's.
Man.
I've seen some gunk jobs b/4, but usually only on rolled roofing and the like.
I've got a question for you. My roofing experience is minimal, but I'd like to think I understand some of the workings of a proper roof. If you had a leak in a valley, wouldn't a constant coating like that probably cause more water to enter and stop it's exit? A ridge gets a cover on top. A valley's ultimate cover is underneath, no? The shown "repair" shouldn't have even been an option.
thanks.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
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Calvin,
You're right on the money with that rationale- but that doesn't mean people won't try to solve leaks with a pail of shid.
The odd thing is that this home belonged to a builder/carpenter. Whenever I ran across him at the yards or stores he'd say " I've got to get you over to look at my roof sometime" but he would never call. Last Fall he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and was gone in a few months. His widow found my card in his things and called to get a price to solve the leakage.
Back to your point- yes the metal underneath is gone so slathering goop only delays the inevitable- rip it all out to the sheathing and start fresh.
Actually once the mess is gone it will be a fun job to put back- very enjoyable on some early Fall days.
Walter
looks like a fun fall job. i wouldn't have wanted to be up there last week.
We've only had 2 days above 90 all year so far.
The heat has stayed just to our South and West.
Walter
LOL.... if that's the "solution" then I'd hate to see what the "problem" looked like. Looks more like a bad driveway than a roof. :)
Once you go down the "gunk" highway theres nowhere to turn around. You keep adding more in hopes you've found the leak this time- but like Cal pointed out the problem is at the bottom!
Made my job much more messy in the tearout phase.
Walter
All I could do after seeing those photos was laugh. I was thinking - I wonder how many galons of water is trapped in there. Nothing screws up a roof worse than an amature trying to fix it.Back when I was doing BUR, I got a ccall to fix a leak in a hospital roof. Happened to be over the OR.
As the maintenance man was leading me up on the roof to show me where he thought it was, I noticed a five galon can of Pace product and groaned. All he had done was disguise the leak and make the work take an extra day of prep 'cause of aall tht gooey mass on top of gravel with no prep.Trickiest paart was that I had to see where the water was getting in to begin with and that meant waiting for the docs to be finished with the OR, so I set up and started cleaning his mess until they called me. By hen I was filthy but the cleaning crew followed me in there.It was easy to patch the leak once I got the gunk out of the way.That got me a lot of work with Doctors since I guess it had been leaking for a while and nobody else could fix it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That is one way to scare the He11 out of a patient. "Aren't you the guy who fixed my roof?! What the He11 you doing in here?!"jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
LOL, Maybe I have a future in urology fixing more leaks
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That might be just the opposite problem. They're wanting a leak. ;)
jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
hmmm,
Well,...
ya.
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Saaalute!View Image View Image
"Age is no better, hardly so well, qualified for an instructor as youth, for it has not profited so much as it has lost. One may almost doubt if the wisest man has learned anything of absolute value by living." -Thoreau
That looks like one of those repairs where the homeowner told the roofing contractor to patch it don't fix properly. You know those ones. As soon as they see the quote they say ...."well, can't you just.....(insert band-aid here)
LOl
Dave
Dave,
Only thing is --it was the homeowner who performed this abortion! And he was also a contractor!!!
Read my post a few back to Dieswlpig.
Walter
waaay back when i was working my way thru school as a roofer (mostly comps, some wood and hot tar, no slate, tho) i did a complete re-roof job that included fixing a major leak around an air conditioning unit. when i was finished the homeowner sarcastically asked me, "Is it still gonna leak?". i replied, "It sure as hell ought to. The idiot who installed the AC stuck not one, but two legs straight into the middle of a valley. Why didn't he just put a funnel on your roof and be done with it?" when i told my boss about this exchange he started laughing his a$$ off. seems the homeowner had installed the AC in question...mitch
Sometimes telling it like it is - is the best policy. Let the chips fall where they may.
I got some funny looks from a soon to be customer when I said about thier roof " Man, some idiot used 12 penny nails, not galvanized, and about 8 or ten in EACH OAK SHAKE, geeze what was he thinking?"
Then the MR. of the house said " well crap, I didn't know any better"
OOOOPS. LOL.
They are very good friends of ours now, and I did half of his roof, the next half is awaiting till they get the cash scraped up. We still joke about those nails.
Sometimes the shoddiest work is done by the owner- but also some of the finest at other times. Depends on skill level and basic caring about the end result probably.
Here the owner/ contractor wanted to stop the leak. It's behind the turret and not visible from the street so what the he**
Hi Walter
Looks like you have quite a job up on the hill. but at least its a great view of Bangor. Good seeing you at the BBQ last week. lets keep posted if we hear of any more free lunches. Ill let you know if I hear of anymore. Im working down in Trenton on Oak Point, doing a kitchen and Bath, off and on for the next month or so off and on because I dont want to drive every day for weeks and weeks in a row,so ill break the job up and do some small jobs in Bangor - Nice view, right on the water. You guys have some fun up there, be careful. Vic Woof WoofCarpentry and remodeling
Vic Vardamis
Bangor Me
Vic,
Thanks for the response.
Yes I'll send you an e-mail thru here if I hear of other lunches.
I'll be posting more of Hilltop on " Project for Spring"
Good luck on the Coast.
Walter
LOL. I love it when people get told. It's even funnier when it was by accident.
Dave
LOL. Now that's just embarassing!
Dave
Had a client with a similar "coating" on their roof a while back. Real bear to remove, tar was 1/2 - 1" thick. Real shame as the roof underneath was fancy embossed copper sheeting, salvage value wasn't that much due to the layer of tar on the copper.
The old zinc or galvanized metal down at the bottom on this job is worth nothing even before the foot of goo!
The future of theslateman...
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"A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone."
-Thoreau
Rez,
You and Grant crack me up!!
Where do you guys pull these from? I never roof barefoot though and always wear pants too!!!
Walter
Few years back I redid a metal gutter that was joining two commercial building and as the years went by the way they kept it fixed was to just apply another layer of hot tar to the gutter.
It was nasty. Really nasty and that was some of the stuff I'd peeled out of it.
I liked doing the barefoot roofer rountine but it got the best of me.
"A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone." -Thoreau
Please tell that is a rubber foot and not that belonging to a labourer that forgot his boots again.
dave
Ok, that was a rubber foot.
I got tossed in the trash as EPDM wasn't specced.
"If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them." -Thoreau
Yeah....but another layer of gunk might buy you another 5 years.
{Big Cheesey Grin!}
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Yes it well might--- but they'll need to hire someone else for that work !!!
Just saw this Walter:
That will be a fun one.
I just did a similar one on shingles, the only difference is the contractor finished last fall so my gunk was new. He even left a couple of 5 gallon pails of tar up on the flat roof for me. (they hit the bottom of the dumpster just before the rest of his mess)
The colder the weather the easier the tar chips away, which you probably know.
Have fun!
I am still amazed that people can sleep at nite after getting paid to destroy peoples homes!!
In this case it was the owner who destroyed his own house.
Now his widow has to pay to fix it.
Walter
bump
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Man you're really sumptin bro.
How do you do it ???
Gonna lug some riggin up there in the morning and start wading into the tar pits.
You're one in a million !!!
Walter
How do you do it ???
the search function when working is your friend.
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Rez,
I tried the search function, but had no luck then I saw you had just logged on so I thought I'd ask a favor. Thanks again.
Taking my 4' box and pan brake and some ladders and such to set up for next week.
Should be fun once I get the monkey dung removed.
Walter
So the fall job got moved to spring, aye?
Funny how that works.
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My left hip went South on sept. 28 laid up for 5 months.
Roofing wasn't possible until 7 weeks ago -- thought she probably had someone else do it , but she waited till I was healthy enough.
I recall that.
You must have left a good impression on her so she was willing to wait.
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Actually no one else would give her a bid !
Can you blame them ???
You just enjoy the challenge.
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And the cabbage too !!!
Slateman in 2 weeks...
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started today the work of the demo so new copper could go in and then reslate it.
Here are a few of the progress.
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More of the tar pits
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Another 4 before supper
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Bet you're glad you have some decent weather to work with.
be and God bless Grace I&W Shield.
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Rez,
We had a gully washer on Tues.4" of rain which for us is a lot.
Been nice yesterday today and into tomorrow. I'll have that first side wrapped up by nite fall tomorrow.
Walter
I am suprised the decking isn't rotted out, that tar was doing something..semi well.
Hey? Wassat a "Pry-Mate" tear off tool I saw in an earlier picture?
I got one for Xmas here on BT a few yrs ago..awesome ripper.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Duane,
I buy them from ABC called a Shin Dig by whipper do products.
It's by far the best up close ripper made. Chimneys , skylights , etc. don't stand a chance with these.
Walter
Black w/a long handle? same claw as a shortie?
I think Darcy knows the inventer, and Luka had my name..thats how I got mine.
Anyway..cool beans that you are fixing that pit..looks like things I don't miss..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Heres one you'll like. 4 Malco A 1 awls making pilot holes for my rivetting session.
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Lemme get this right..you pilot w/awl?
I had used 1/8 rivs and drill each one w/ 1/8 bit and an Impact ( faster than a drill motor) driver.
I also didn't riv the valley locks, just lock and solder, a 12/12 I THINK we din't solder the laps..
Grant is not here to tell me I am wrong, but under his tutledge, that is what I was taught.
Teach me, OH master..(G).
Actually, I am not doing near the amount of CU I had been, I have 13+ SQ of Flat seam in my future, but I don't have the irons or heater, just my Sievert..I may sub it out..I can make more $$$ doing what I do better.
BTW..do ya know what happened to Grant? I've not seen him here since last month...Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Duane,
I use the awls for spacing out the rivets and holding the sheets in place while drilling and rivetting these together.
None of these pieces are locked together -- overlapped and rivetted then soldered . In situations like this I prefer just two sheets thick instead of the four you get with lock seams.
Besides this little spot had too much going on and tough for a big man to get into to work. This top piece was bent 5 ways to fit into a tight area.
Grant posted in my Working on my own place thread -- with some slightly veiled references to " F*****G cool man" then the next day it was deleted, and he hasn't been back that I know of. Don't know if it was enough for the mods to censor or not. I sure hope he didn't get tossed for that.
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Man, we are too much of the same..you and I. Rubber for temp dry in, parachute bags, same roof rippers..I love it. I get to exp what I left doing from my couch..LOL
I really learned from Dale, who learned from Grant, that we locked our valleys and sometimes soldered but I see no need to rivet them..now just lapping like you do, I can see adding a rivet or three but if I could avoid that , I would. Not that it's wrong or anything, just lazy I guess.
At first my soldering skills were so poor that I couldn't sweat a lap well enough to trust it, and what you call bridges ( I believe) me and Dale call "strength risers" same idea. When I cool the pool of solder to build up the laces, I often undo my sweated lap, and open a pucker. I can see where a riv would help with that.
Do you pretin your laps? I used to, then quit and just held the heat higher up the joint and let it draw in..but again you are using paste flux it appears, I was using Ruby Juice, wich I really didn't care for that much, esp when it dumps in a valley! We make flux cups from copper scraps and if you can make a cup that don't leak, you're doing good.
I see Grant hasn't been here since 4/25, I dunno whats up, I had lunch with Dale and my replacement ( his DAD LOL!) yesterday, and he siad Grant has been "grumpy" of late..maybe he did get a Time Out..and misses us so much he's Jones-ing for a BT FIX.
I think I pizzed him off, so he won't talk to me..oh well..Life rolls on.
Great job ya got there, and I salute ya! And, I am both missing doing that work, and glad I am not..bitter-sweet feelings. I don't miss setting staging and sweating like a pig in a copper roasting pan when in a tight copper standingseam valley, hanging off a pair of vice grips and a chicken ladder..gotta admit, we all got some balls to do that..LOL
Glad yer hip is playing nice, my knees are heading south..I think I best be staying closer to the ground these days, now it's a Heel Spur on that ankle I trashed aways back..by 230 PM I gotta give my foot a rest..sux gettin old.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Hey, BTW...get thee a few #12 HITACHI brand HEX SHANK drill and counter sink combo bits..use a lite weight impact driver for rivit holes..a ZILLION times faster!!! If you find that you drill too deep and fugger the rivit hole up with the countesink feature just drill out a sunk rivet and let the waste ring stay on the bit to "Blind" the countersinker.
We also buy double end 1/8" replacement drills, hit them with a grinder to make a flat spot on the shank, cux ya don't need the standard length drill , and they either walk the CU up the shank as you drill, or break the bit, or as I do when doing reglets, hit a brick and dull the bit on the first hole. DOH!
When we are two on a roof or gutter we preload rivits in the other noses in the handle of the rivi-later for each other, and hand each other a fully loaded "clip" and send back the empty to each other..Dale and I can pop ten rivets in about a minute, doing that. I have a Harbor Freight 5 buck riveter that lasted 3 yrs and has done thousands of rivits, and broke 3 Malco's @ 30 bucks each, in the same amount of time..just so ya know..ya know?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Them painters outta be eviscerated!
Maybe it was the same guy who poured the layers of gunk in the valleys.
be They will bury me where you have wanderedNear the hills where the daffodils growWhen you're gone from the Black River Valley...
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3/4" sheathing doesnt look bad at all.
The tar must have preserved it.
How is your hip holding up?
Jeff,
For as bad as the metal and tarred up goop was -- the sheathing was in fine condition. A little stained up but still very solid.
My hip is doing fine at present== thank you for asking. This spot is a tough spot to operate -- on my knees all the time behind the tower.
Walter
<<and then reslate it.>>Can the old slates be cleaned (gasoline?) or do you just buy new or find some elderly ones to match the weathering or all the above? (Sorry if i missed this earlier in the thread.)
I'll put back less slate by exposing more copper. I'll cut off some of the worst gunked up ones too.
If I need more I'll use some of those from my garage stash. They're slightly larger so i'll cut them down , but they're from the same quarry and similar age as well.
Walter
I'll post more of the copper work later tonite.
Thanks. Btw, i sent your pen back, with modifications, a couple days ago. Look for it... <G>
Colleen,
Here are some from todays work showing getting rid of the bad areas on the slates.
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A few more of the lovely structure I'm working on and some of the slating in process.
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Walter
How do you set the brackets without damaging the existing slate? Nice work as always.
Greg in Connecticut
Greg,
My homemade brackets have 4" strips of copper nailed onto their backsides that secure them to the roof deck once several slates have been removed.
I either slate right over the copper straps right away , or felt in the space and put the slates back when tearing back down.
Walter
Walter,
Great work as always.
Is there any type of cricket behind the turret? I see a little of the roof connection in post post .71, pic 3.
Any chance of stepping back a few paces to get some whole house shots of that Victorian Lady?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
One picture in post 71 shows the one half of the cricket piece with 5 bends in it -- no thats not a reflector oven yet ! Temps have only been in the 50's so I'm not roasting . Another shows it in place with my EPDM roofing being used as traction padding.
Heres one from the driveway side.
Walter
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Chuck,
I'll get some exterior shots on Tues. It'll be iffy weather tom. so I won't want to tear out the North side yet.
Walter
Chuck,
The rain left overnite so I did work there today.
Here are some exterior shots of this nice home.
Walter
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Started in on the other side of the turrett today. Having done one side I learned where I could improve time wise and still maintain a high quality install.
Ripped out all the old and got a lot of the copper in and rivetted up. Even put back some slates on the steep pitch of the main house.
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Man, that first pict. of that house came up, I was looking out the window for you.
I thought you must have been on my roof!
Nice by the way.
Walter,
Thanx for the whole house pics. The fishscale shingles on the Dutch gable end are great.
I can imagine an old timer coming by, sitting at a treadle scroll saw, knocking them out, and/or the fret work as well.
I also like the window plinth in the third pic of .87. I made a similar detail on my small addition on a twin window, not a bay.
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A lot of the so called 'custom' homes built today are geared to interior creature comforts and the exterior is a hodgepodge of poorly executed period wannabe mistakes.
Thank you for sharing your priceless trade.
"Keep the quality up" W.E. Upjohn, Kalamazoo, MI
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
I thought the way you detailed your addition was very tasteful. It looks like it could have been executed at a much earlier time.
Old Town , where this home is located ( home to World famous canoes ) has some lovely old homes. It sits right on the Penobscot River so lumber was plentiful from the North when building was at it's hayday.
Walter
Might be silly, but, I like the fact that you referred to this building as a home and not a house, I too, use home as my primary term. When I meet clients I always (well not always) tell them that they have a lovely (nice) home. With the DBL. meter pan I assume it's a two family home?
I never noticed the double meter, but no it's only lived in by one family.
Actually just one lady who lost her spouse a year and a half ago.
Making up the last of the 20 oz. copper to install and rivet into place.
A felt template was needed since this piece was bent in 5 directions !
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Then back up into the cubby hole to see if it fits.
Then comes rivetting and soldering it up.
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A few last ones showing some soldered seams and the tank set up for cubby hole soldering.
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Cool copper Origami!
Looks like the weather is getting civil up there too.
Great job.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Walter,
Great cricket/valley hybrid.
SLOT. What is the brand of those new or lightly used saw bucks in the 2nd pic of .94.?
I need a new set and they look like just the ticket.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
I'll look tomorrow when I'm back on site. They're more rugged than a lot of the folding sheetmetal ones you can get.
Walter
Walter
Cool pictures of the house. I dont understand to much of the other stuff you're doing but its fun to see!
Doug
Thanks Doug.
Chuck,
Here they are.
Walter
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Walter,
Thanx for the info. I've got a line on a similar set. The ones I found weigh about 20# each. Not sheet metal.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Thanks Duane ! Don't often get to put that many kinks in one piece of copper.
Weather is getting quite nice -- 72 today and about the same tomorrow.
More rain for Thurs. and Friday.
Walter
I'd say you're cutting as close to the bone as possible, saving those slates. I have a couple of remedial questions now:
What holds the copper valleys in place? I don't see any clips or nails holding them.
What type of metal is the slate cutting tool edge? Do you sharpen or replace it?
That is a very pretty roof and turret!
Colleen,
I got the pen you sent yesterday !! What a nice item to use for writing -- the wood is very lovely ! Thank you very much.
Actually the slate shown being cut was bumming me out that I wasted too much !!
The 20 oz valley copper is nailed 1" from the top with 1.5" copper slating nails - then Grace used to bond from deck to sheet. The top 6" of the sheet is slated over.
I've got a lot of those simple cutters and never had to sharpen or replace the cutting blade on any of them yet. It's just hardened steel I guess - never thought to look into it further.
Thanks again. Walter