The Sawstop guy happened to be doing a demo today when I stopped in at Woodcraft to get somehting.
We all got to stand around and watch while he nicked his hotdog.
Aha ha ha.
If you haven’t seen this, it’s a table saw that has a mechanism that stops the blade if it detects flesh.
It’s essentially a soft aluminum ‘stop’ that drops down onto the blade, which comes instantly to a loud and violent stop.
Quite shocking. He had the hotdog atop a piece of scrap and pushed it pretty quickly into the blade. WHGUNNNCH! A bunch of something flew around and I though something had broken, like bits of blade where flying. I think it was the aluminum from the stopper.
PRetty Wild.
Replies
Did the techie rebuild the saw with new parts afterward?
I understand that if the stop mechanism trips, your finger is saved, but the saw gets wrecked and requires some serious service.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
I think the repair if you trip it, you have to replace the cartridge which costs something under a c note.
I dont have one, I just pay attention!
My first question, when looking into the guts where the collision occured was, "Is the blade ok?"
He said you could have it checked out by a local saw shop.
The cartidge (mentioned) is the aluminum thingy the blade digs into, and he claimed, with a new cartridge and a spare blade, you could be up and running in 20 minutes, as he did.
So it basically might ruin a blade and the stopper part. But that's better than losing a finger for sure!
I don't know if i want one yet though. My bosch works fine with a little respect. Well, a LOT of respect.
And it cost $?.
It'll stop any saw?
Joe H
I was too awed by the hotdog trick that I forgot to ask of cost.
No.
I've no idea what they cost. Not really interested in owning one.
Sorry.
I Do know that it is a proprietary saw. Not an adaptation for any saw.
You heard wrong. The blade gets trashed and the brake cartridge needs to be replaced. Usually t is a fifteen minute operation or less. The cost of a brake firing can range anywhere from $100.00 on up depending on what type of blade was on the saw. If it was a Forrest Dado King that would be over $300.00. It's all chump change when it actually does save a visit to the hospital.
Edited 4/10/2009 8:54 pm ET by ted
those things amaze me. i can see them sensing moisture/aka blood and kicking.
what happens when you run a treated/wet board thru it.did he explain how it worked?
i'd like to see a demo on one,bet he doesn't blow it more than once a day.
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.
The Sawstop web site has an FAQ at
http://www.sawstop.com/cabinet/cab_faq.phpRegarding the damp wood, the FAQ response was:
"SawStop saws work fine in humid environments and they cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the wood is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist when cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then the wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake. Accordingly, the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before cutting by standing it inside and apart from other wood for about one day. You can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other conductive material by placing the saw in bypass mode. "
Here's another one: If it aint moving ..Paint it. If it is moving.. nail it down and paint it!
Waters,
True story,
My Dad was telling me & my brothers about the demo you describe & was quite impressed by it, He told us the guy tired running a wiener into the blade and it stopped. We stood there quitely and my older brother chimed up with "Wow, I would of tried a finger, you got ten of those!" We laughed so hard!!, great memory of my Dad.
It is a good demo, you do lose the cartridge & blade, but its a lot cheaper than a lost finger & all the doctor bills that would follow.
No one should regard themselve as "God's gift to man." But rather a mere man whos gifts are from God.
LOL! Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
LOL!
Yeah, the guy's there telling us after the whole saw blows up inside and stops... "And it's only 15 minutes to get up and running again!"
I said, "Yeah! If your heart rate can return to normal in 15 minutes your good!"
My moment of fame.
Ya , & don't fotrget pants cleaning time No one should regard themselve as "God's gift to man." But rather a mere man whos gifts are from God.
Didn't your momma tell you to always have a clean pair of underwear in the shop?
Here's the unbelievable TIME WARP video of the SawStop in action....
In the final setup....."Don't-try-this-at-home"......Inventor Steve Glass pushes his own finger into the saw blade to demonstrate the SawStop operation for the unique high speed cameras......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE
Remember a few years ago when Gates or Steve Jobs was on stage to demo the newest rollout of Windows?
And it wouldn't turn on for him?Ouch
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
He tried to sell the stop system to Sears, Delta all the big guys they did not want to buy it, so he decided to make the saw himself, his saw cost more then a similar saw with out it,
If OSHA steps in and requires on very job site and work place saw the man would be rich.
Wonder if he could mount a version on a chop saw?
Wallyo
Just another tool to waste money on. If your that worried about losing fingers then your not confident enough to use a tablesaw. I've seen the demo and yes its really cool but I like the one I have. thanks
Derek Weiss [email protected]
"When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
I guess same applies for seat belts, anti lock brakes, air bags and any other safety gadgets automakers have installed in motor vehicles over the last fifty years. If one isn't confident enough to navigate the roads without these items then they shouldn't drive.
Edited 4/11/2009 12:44 pm ET by ted
Well everyone I thought we were on the same team. I'm not trying discredit saw stop for a very great product. I just feel that now this product is out that everyone should get rid of their current saws and replace them with a saw stop. I'm a third generation carpenter and cabinetmaker. My father and grand father had their close calls with equipment but I feel that before using equipment that people should have proper lessons on how to use the equipment. Thoroughly explain setups and pitfalls. The key is taking your time to learn and to use equipment. Now, like everything else, its all about speed. You cut corners and something has to give. My apologies if anyone was affended by my earlier comment.Derek Weiss [email protected]
"When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
I've had a tangle with a table saw in the past.. luckily I didn't lose any digits. That being said, would I buy one of these, probably not. If money wasn't an issue, than maybe. I know the local high school has one in their building trades class, and I do think that is a wise purchase for them.oh and the time warp finger demo.. that just makes me cringe.
Edited 4/11/2009 4:58 pm ET by egdc
If your that worried about losing fingers then your not confident enough to use a tablesaw.
Sorry HD but broad statements like this, ego, is why men get hurt. This bravado is ill placed. Injury by any tool occurs for many more factors that incompetence.
You assume to much about how one gets hurt. I wonder what your excuse will be the day you get into the saw.
I do not consider this tool silly, it is certainly worth considering. Speaking as an incompetent bastid who is lucky to have his left thumb after 20 stiches, 6 years ago.
I wonder if such a protective device had existed 10 years ago would the school systems across this nation have been so quick to shut down their industrial arts classes?
There is certainly a place for this saw and as time passes it's technology and cost will only improve, I hope.
There have been multiple threads on SawStops ... search is a powerful tool.Our local store has them, I'm just fresh out of thousand dollar bills right now. I missed one on Craigslist a short time ago... the only ONE in over 3 years of looking. They are as well built as my grandfather's old Delta, and although I have great insurance I'd really rather loose $200 worth of cartridge and blade than get aonther 10 stitches in my thumb (christ that hurt).
Kind of like ABS, airbags, and traction control ... totally unnecessary until you need them onece. Invaluable afterwards. I'd sign a loan for $5k right if I could trade it for those stitches.
"They are as well built as my grandfather's old Delta" While older Unisaws (prior 1980's) were sound machines I never thought them to be particularly heavy duty or well crafted machines when compared to something like the Powermatic 66 or an Inca 12" saw.
And while the Sawstop may appear to be a solid saw it too has it's flaws and manufacturing quality control issues and despite all the raving about how great a saw it is I can rattle off at least a half dozen disappointments we have had with ours over the last few years. Things like hand crank wheels that periodically fall off because the arbor hole is too big for the shaft, mounting screws that need to be periodically retightened to keep the blade tilt shaft engaged with the rack, A place on the dust shroud that can wear through from debris hitting it and in some instances has caused a small fire, secret compartments for dust to collect that will keep the blade from being lowered completely, etc.
However even with these flaws we would have a hard time parting with them, firstly for the safety features but more importantly for the improvements in design that were not available on other saws when we purchased.
Edited 4/11/2009 12:43 pm ET by ted
Hmmmm... can't agree with you at all on this one Derek. I think you're confusing a "mistake" with an "accident". Suppose you're ripping some stock like you've done 1000 other times. You've got your ear plugs in, your safety glasses on, your push stick at the ready...... and the FNG walks in the door with a load of 12' 2x on his shoulder and knocks you in the back of the head with it....you instinctively put your arm straight out the break the fall. The FNG just made a mistake. You just had an accident. Doesn't really matter though cuz you both are too busy crawling around on the floor looking for your other ring finger.View Image
Are you serious? This scenerio shouldn't happen because your guys are EDUCATED on your jobsite to not be around the tablesaw when someone is operating it. Glass doors and windows aren't off the backside of the tablesaw just in case pieces go flying back off the blade. It sounds like a dangerous work environment maybe you should spend the money on a saw stop. Derek Weiss [email protected]
"When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
LOL... look man it was just an example. Stranger things happen every day. You don't know me, you don't know how I run my jobs, and you don't know how I run my crew.... so I'll excuse your ignorance on the matter. I wish you the best... and I hope you're right and that you don't run into an "accident" some time. I won't worry about any "mistakes" though... you've made it perfectly clear that you never make any of those.
My advice? Take a deep breath, drop the attitude, and enjoy the show around here. You just might learn something. Whether you like it or not!View Image
Hi.
In my day job, I work in safety at a nuclear research facilty.
Industries that need high reliability (as opposed to just getting another replacable body to finish their perfect remodel) recognised long ago that "to err is human" is more than just a cliche.
It doesn't matter how good you are. Some time, you will slip up.Amateurs talk strategy, Generals talk logistics.
I'll fess up that I am the dumb a** who took off the my middle finger with my table saw. Just down to the first knuckle, but man does it suck. It was a few years ago, but to this day when I reach for something and I just can't get a finger on it, its always sad to realize its because I was breaking 4 table saw safety rules all at the same time.
Not to be morbidly curious, but perhaps for the benefit of all, you could post those four rules you broke. I'd bet we all could use to hear them... and some of us may not even realize that we've been breaking any. I see a lot of really bad habits get ingrained in carpenters... we think because we've been doing this or that for XX many years it must be safe. Until our number comes up of course.View Image
The 4 broken rules were:1) No push sticks or any other aids2) No safety cover over blade3) I was plunge cutting. The wood got pulled backwards accidentally and immediately shot forward along with my hand.4) Don't do stupid things with a table saw at 10:30 at night after a long day.I actually sliced my thumb and two fingers. They all have permanent damage, but you'd only notice the missing top of my middle figure.
Bummer.
I am a push stick fanatic, an awl, a screwdriver, many homemade and always cluttering up the shop..one is in reach at all times. That and saftey glasses on crocs at all times.
a hunk of sawdust hitting your eye and THEN the hand finds the blade is so common.
One close call in 35 yrs of TS use that drew blood..and it was due to a bad glue joint that failed on a very small pc. at a very low blade height..I've been fortunate.
If I used the tablesaw every every every day (i do use one a lot but not every day) I'd think about it.
An accident is and accident, whether you're confident or not.
I personally know more than one guy who has sawed into his digits...
Finally, someone who tells the truth!! I agree with you. And I've sent responses in to various publishers, and they refuse to acknowlege my position. Everything we use is very, VERY dangerous. My shaper is viscious; the jointer is ridiculous if your hand slips; how many forced the material too close with a chop saw? Yet if you follow precautions, you will find 70 and 80 year old craftsman who have never had an issue..they have been careful all their lives. We don't need another nanny state watching over Americans. This inventor is an attorney and he is going to use the system for HIS benefit whether it costs us one way or the other.
Thanks for your comment!!
At its most basic level, capitalism offers people the freedom to choose where they work and what they do … the dignity that comes with profiting from their talent and hard work. … The free-market system also provides the incentives that lead to prosperity -- the incentive to work, to innovate, to save and invest wisely, and to create jobs for others.†-President George W. Bush
In other words, free-market capitalism is the best path to prosperity.
Thank you. Someone finally understands my point of view.Derek Weiss [email protected]
"When the job is perfect, we're almost done."
I'd say most every one understands your point of view. Many of us are too familiar with the harsh realities
of what we do, to share your bravado. Now I won't be running out to slap some hard earned cash
down on one either, but I probably should. Anyone who has
employees running around probably should.
Heck, newbies need too. Overconfident second generation (myself included)
"what-evers" damn well ought to take a moment,
crack a cold beer, look that old saw in eye and remember
what the deal really is.
Best post yet in the thread. I don't own one either... and probably never will. In fact I just bought a new table saw a month ago and didn't even consider the SawStop. All I'm sayin' is..... it's really not a bad idea when you stop and think about it. I'll admit to getting a little 'cowboy' with circular saws and framing nailers sometimes. But anytime I've got a router in my hand or am standing at the tablesaw I start paying attention real quick.
I'm very comfortable with my own abilities with power tools. Knock on wood, I've got a great safety record with them. But that's not what scares me. It's Murphy that scares me. I think we've all seen him show up on a jobsite now and again and when he does, all he11 can break loose in no time. I've been there before... doing what I'm supposed to be doing... the way I'm supposed to be doing it...and 10 seconds later I'm picking my jaw up off the floor wondering what the F just happened. Jobsites can just be like that sometimes. Sometimes it's hilarious. Other times... not so much. View Image
Yeah. Whenever I see guys play fast and loose with safety, I think of the odds.Simple equation for me: let's say there's a 1 in a 1000 chance that something will go wrong. Pretty safe, eh? What if you perform that action 1000x in your career? Danger! 10,000 times means you're bumping up against inevitability.Saws, routers, nailers - whatever - they all do things to wood that you don't EVER want to do to your body. Really, really fast.
HD,Of the several SawStop conversations I have read here and at other boards, this is probably the best.I am pretty sure I understand what you are saying. I feel as though the SS is marketed for ignorant DIYers who probably shouldn't be using a tablesaw in the first place. Ignorance, arrogance, or pure stupidity; call it what you want but that's how accidents happen with any tool. I have never been hurt with a table saw and don't expect I will because I work smart. I don't need saw blade brakes and don't use a blade guard. I just use my wits.That being said; I own the Bosch 4000.
If when I bought it, they offered a blade stopping option for the same price and only a pound more would I buy it? Sure. Do I ever expect to use it? No. If the safety device got in my way repeatedly would I just remove it? YesIf it stopped when it shouldn't because of wet wood, would I remove it? Yes!I suppose I would consider it more if I had a bunch of moron employees to worry about. Fortunately I make a point to not hire morons so that won't be an issue for me either.Maybe someone could just invent a saw with a pair of robot arms to push wood through the blade while the operator just watches behind bulletproof glass. Then we would all be safe.Until then I will suggest that people just not use power tools if they are afraid of being hurt.DC
Terms like ignorant DIYers and moron employees may be a little extreme, don't you think?
As an analogy, I've never been hurt in a car accident but I still put on my seat belt before I pull out of the driveway.
operating a tabesaw is nothing like driving a car.
"ignorant DIYers and moron employees" is often not extreme enough terminology. That's why there are so many safety warnings on everything that should just be common sense. You don't need to be an engineer to know that you shouldn't stick your hand into a spinning blade. Common sense more than experience with tools tells me where my hands can and cannot go to perform an operation while still being safe. Common sense tells me that there are too many distractions in my proximity or I am too tired to be using a machine. Experience tells me that certain wood grains get angry while being sawed in half. So I contend that accidents involving losing appendages while using machinery is more often than not the fault of operator ignorance or arrogance.When you drive a car, you are at the mercy of the intelligence and responsibilities of fellow drivers or the wrath of mother nature. It is one of the most dangerous things you do in your daily life. Yet, 99.9% of the time you make it back home just fine. I had to chuckle when someone said that so and so came into the shop and hit the sawyer in the back with wood causing them to grab the blade....or whatever. To me that's like saying you are working on the saw and a meteorite falls on you. Gotta wear helmets now too. Cars and saws are not analogous. BTW: in michigan it is the law that you must wear your seat belt in a car. Albeit, several years ago my father's best friend was killed in a car accident when a drunk driver plowed into the car he was riding in. Of the 3 people in his car and the 1 drunk driver in the other; he was the only one wearing his seat belt and the only one who was killed. True story.DC
To horribly paraphrase you- Common sense and experience are required to safely operate
a tablesaw. I think that is a remarkably true statement as far as it goes. Those are indeed what is necessary. Those two attribute do not however remove you from danger. Repetition and the unexpected are always a serious threat. Not to be argumentative but, what is the deep rejection of a safety feature?Your not required to have one and if you were, it would only possibly save you a very bad day.
H,I agree that while making repetitive cuts there is a degradation of focus over time. But that doesn't make it an excuse for losing a finger. Just as I said about being too tired or distracted...if you don't have enough focus on cut #100 to operate a saw safely then common sense says you should turn the saw off.The unexpected (random/hypothetical) I agree can be unavoidable but that doesn't mean a blade brake is the answer---there is no escape.Not taking you to be argumentative.I don't care about safety devices as long as they don't annoy, intrude, or inhibit me from doing what I need to do. In such a sense, the Saw Stop is an unnecessary gimmick to those of us who decide to instead just not put fingers into tablesaw blades. If the SS technology is on the saw I happen to buy then that's fine and dandy. But no way I'm seeking out a saw just for that feature. DC
The point I was trying to make with the automotive reference earlier is that using power tools is an inherently dangerous thing. Just like with a car, no matter how many safety precautions are taken there's still a chance for injury. I'm not saying the Sawstop should be mandatory, but it's a nice option for those who want it. Some people feel the need for all the protection they can get, whether it's airbags in their car or a Sawstop in their workshop, and that's fine. On the other hand, it's certainly possible to go through life without those kinds of things and not any problems. If I was in the market for a new saw I'd take a look at it, but my 30 year old Craftsman does everything I need it to do and I still have all my fingers. So, unless a Sawstop falls out of the sky and lands in my front yard I probably won't get one anytime soon. For the record, I drive a 23 year old car with no airbags, too. :)There are places where I think a Sawstop would be a desirable thing, for instance in schools. My dad taught high school shop for 40 years, and despite his best efforts every so often some kid would injure themselves in class. It may have been with the table saw, or maybe they just whacked their thumb with a hammer, but I would imagine that having a Sawstop in class would have made his life easier.
SawStop in schools.....YES! Absolutely.Like I said, you got to have common sense and experience. HS kids have neither.I am somewhat opposed to saying power tools are dangerous. I mean, yes they are tools that spin sharp cutters at ridiculous speeds very close to our bodies. But then again, 99% of time they don't contact flesh. The only power tool accidents I have had in my 15yr. career were once when I touched a moving jigsaw blade and several times when I belt sanded my fingertips. So when I think of it like that, I can't say power tools are actually all that dangerous. But again: common sense and experience.I know what you were getting at with the car; seems like every time the SS comes up someone has to compare it to a car. I just don't like the comparison but I love a good SS argument/conversation. DC
Confidence in your ability to run the saw, and competence to run the saw should not be confused.
My brother has all the confidence in the world that he can run a table saw. His general lack of competence to run a table saw is easily demonstrated by the fact he has nicked his left index finger twice.
Thus far he hasn't managed to actually amputate it. But, I have a great deal of confidence that if he continues to use table saws he will.
I on the other hand have continuing doubts about my competence to run one safely, and a healthy fear of it. No cut is routine for me. As a result, I think through every cut before I power up the saw.
I will probably never get cut because of that healthy level of fear.
Edited 4/13/2009 2:38 pm ET by Jigs-n-fixtures
"I will probably never get cut because of that healthy level of fear. "
Fear is a great evolutionary mechanism. I never get hurt by things that scare me. Unfortunately, there are all sorts of things that consistently injure me that I'm not afraid of.
I disagree about fear, I call it respect. Fear invokes too much distraction and over-safety mindedness. You CAN be TOO cautious, when scared. Using a push stick or safety device when it's a hinderance, is as dangerous as not using them when appropriate.Healthy respect and understanding of the physics involved, and the potential "what happens if?" factors goes a lot farther in keeping you intact, than "deer in the headlights" anxiety. If you freeze from fright at the wrong time, because you get caught off guard, you will get hurt. If you pre-plan an escape or option ( such as whacking the off switch with your knee) you have better odds of maintaining your cool and getting away unscathed.So, fear, NO, respect and understanding , yes.
Thanks for telling of your experience. Every time I read of these saws (and they've been discussed a lot on KNOTS) I get closer to getting one. I love my old Unisaw and have never had a problem with it in over 25 years. But there's still time for it to bite me....
I'm going to be doing a major relocation in a few months and I don't think the Uni will be going with me. I'm going to use the opportunity to upgrade. The whole move is gonna cost a bundle anyway... so what's a few more bucks?
Thanks for the reminder.
The table saw scares me to this day which is a good thing as i yam on my toes when useing one.
I tell my boy dont use it for shingles but he likes to.
Anyway i can use a skill saw i do!!!!.
One day OSHA came by and said guards on table saws.
Still cant figure out how a table saw works with a guard on it!!!
Bosch's new contractor saw has a guard that actually does work. I tried it out on mine for a few cuts, "Hey that thing works ok..."
Then put it in it's little holder under the table for transport and haven't used it since!
Pat
This is SO cool. But,, I do rip alot of green wood,, and well,,don't need to replace my saw. What a great invention however! And,, well,, accidents happen!
Enough with the hotdogs! We a need to know it really works before we feel confident in it. Why doesn't the salesman use his finger... or maybe drop a cat onto it?
Actually, if you watch the end of this, you'll see the inventor put his own finger into the bladehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Yes but he like barely, barely puts the teeny tiny tip of his finger on the blade, so lightly that if it were a non SawStop it would at most tickle his finger and he could have pulled it out in time to have a giggle... I wanted to see him like place his whole hand on it or something, like a real world situation. Not all fingers are wet hot dogs all the time.
Not all fingers are wet hot dogs all the time.
Aint that the truth! My fingers are normaly so dry I bet that system wouldn't detect it till the blade got to my wrist!
I wonder how the majority of table saw injuries are caused.
I'm suspect it's not because people forget to move their finger when cutting a sheet of plywood like they show with the hot-dog demo. While that is certainly faster then the live-finger demo, it's probably still slow enough for the saw stop to stop the blade and only take a small chunk of flesh from your finger.
I would think that most injuries are from kickback events where your finger is flung into the blade at a high speed. A better demo for this situation would be to fling that hot-dog into the blade to see how much of it will get chewed off.
I don't know much about table saw injuries. Perhaps surprisingly they are one of the few tools that hasn't managed to scar me.
Because I am rough on tools and use them for construction more than cabinetry - which means cutting wet pressure treated and the odd nail and staple - I can't see getting a Stopsaw.
Somehow it seems like designing a system that deals with the problem one the finger has already touched the blade might not be the way to go. I wonder if something that stopped the blade. perhaps in a less catastrophic way, when someone's hand entered a specific danger area around the blade might perhaps work better. It would also have the effect of reinforcing good table saw habits which the Stopsaw doesn't.
Edited 4/12/2009 4:24 pm ET by fingersandtoes
I think they should let the viewers try it out for themselves. Then they could hand out free bandaids, printed with the SawStop logo.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
Edited 4/12/2009 7:47 pm by Ted W.
A buddy went to a show where the SawStop demonstrator did what you suggested, he THREW the hot dog into the running blade. The cut in the weiner was under 1/8" deep. The thing is very fast.Bill
Have a hard time believing that. The Sawstop brake mechanism works on electrical capacitance (internal charge) of an object. wood has a fairly low capacitance as does something like styrofoam. On the other hand the hotdog will conduct capacitance so if one is holding on to the dog the charge from human via the dog will set the Sawstop trigger off.
If one were to merely throw the dog at the blade the hot dog would have little charge on it's own.
Believe whatever you want to. The hot dog has a lot more capacitance than the wood normally being cut, and it is enough to activate the brake, all by itself.
Ok, but what if I WANT to cut hotdogs on my table saw? I mean, geeze, that thing ain't no good slicing lunchmeats? ~tired of cleaning fat outta the bandsaw slicing ham hocks for the dogs.
I know you're just funning, but the safety feature can be bypassed with a key if you just must cut something conductive, like super wet wood, aluminum plate, fresh venison, etc. Aluminum is bad enough, I would not want to clean up the mess from cutting meat.Bill
Something else the SawStop has going for it is a true riving knife. This alone improves ripping safety over your typical Powermatic or Unisaw.
The new Unisaw has a riving knife.http://www.woodshopnews.com/index.php/tools-machines/tools-a-machines-archives/498020-delta-ready-to-roll-out-improved-unisaw'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Yeah every new saw being built has or will have a riving knife on it.
The problem with the new Delta is . . . . well it's a Delta.
Older Delta equipment (pre 1970's I've found to be satisfactory equipment. Anything after that time period is dicey at best IMHO.
I respect 'most' of the opinions here - I have learned a lot just reading them with my morning coffee and on occasions I have asked particular questions about my DIY home projects. I stay out of the political arguments - rants. I do not consider myself either overly careless or fearful. But I am one missing a finger. Well the tip of a finger. Nail gone, bone gone to first knuckle. Saw blade won the contest. It could not be surgically reattached because of the damage done when it flew across the garage.The pain was intense. The therapy after was also intense. To lessen the sensitivity - the Doc called it the hot spot feeling - I had to pick up dimes on the bottom of a bowl full of frozen peas. Ouch! Your fingers are quite loud when hurt.It happened in a flash. I was careful. Guards were on and functional. I turned for a millionth of a second because of a nearby car backfiring just at the right time.The saw is a GREAT idea. Total cost of bone removal, stitching, getting a hunk of skin from my butt to look a little like a finger = $7,500.00.Mike
I modified my Bosch ( the older one- 4000) guard to make
a riving knife. Ten minutes with an angle grinder cutting the useless parts away. I highly suggest a knife to all. It isn't in the way and really
does keep the wood from pinching the blade. Now, the stock can still ride up, or kick back but those
are things I'm use too not letting happen. One nasty two-by
pinching in can ruin your day.
"I modified my Bosch ( the older one- 4000) guard to make
a riving knife."I think what you made was a splitter, not a riving knife. A splitter tilts with the blade but remains fixed as the blade is raised and lowered. A riving knife is cut with a curve that matches the blade and moves with it as it is raised and lowered so it is always 1/4" or so behind the blade even when the cut depth is shallow.BruceT
No, he means a riving knife.
Gary Katz described this in an article on his website. The guard on the Bosch 4000 is readily modified. I did the same thing on mine, and it works great. Amateurs talk strategy, Generals talk logistics.
Yeah, It's a riving knife. So,far the only guard that works for me and I'm glad to have it.
Well shut my mouth, then! I guess I should have guessed that Bosch, who have to sell in the European market as well, would have a riving knife.BruceT
new bosch has one too and I found myself really liking it. use it all the time now.
Last time I checked the SawStop website, they had a section where people could write in about their real-world results. I haven't looked for a while, but they covered a fair range of situations, and most of the people said they drew blood, but the result was a bandage rather than stitches or missing digits.
Don
I own a SawStop and hope to never see this happen!
No Kidding@!
I don't own a sawstop and never want to see that happen.
;-)
Y'know,
with all this discussion of table saw safety, I've never heard anyone mention this technique:
Today I ripped a million skinny long things. When I do this, I don't push the stick all the way thru the saw. I push it about half way thru, guide hand stays by the front edge of the table, push hand stops near it.
Then I lift the material OFF the blade with my push hand, flip it end for end, and harmlessly complete the cut with my hands no where near the blade.
How many others do this?
I do.
I do that, too. This is an operation that you have to remove the overguard for, and doing so makes it much safer than trying to feed those skinny sticks through under a crown guard, IMO. I also own a SawStop cabinet saw and a modified Makita 2703 with riving knife. I figured this out before Gary Katz wrote his wonderful article about doing the same to a Bosch 4000.
Yeah, I do that all the time too. Not with finish stock though. To often you end having a lap in
the cut.