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wobbly toilet

alexpesta | Posted in Construction Techniques on April 1, 2005 08:45am

I repaired a toilet in my house about 3 months ago by installing a new horn that slipped inside the soil pipe and explanded as I tightened 4 allen screws. That part works fine, but the toilet wobbles. I have tried to shim under the toilet, but am not happy with the results.

I was going to pull it all apart this weekend and see if I can bend the soil pipe a bit to allow the flange to sit further down into the floor. If I can, what clearance should I shoot for? Should the top of the flange be about 1/4″ above the floor?

If I can’t get the pipe to bend and drop the flange, what should I use as a permanent ‘shim?’ I know slabs of marble were used in the past, but I think that is overkill for the size of the bathroom…

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Replies

  1. User avater
    BillHartmann | Apr 01, 2005 09:01pm | #1

    The flange has nothing to do with supporting the toilet.

    It is supported strickly by the floor and the hold down bolts.

    If the floor or toilet is not flat then you need to add shims or some fill material.

    Bet some plastic wedge shims. They should be in the plumbing department. Then wedge then in and cut off the excess. Then caulk around the base of the toilet.

    1. alexpesta | Apr 01, 2005 09:46pm | #2

      Thanks- I have wood shims in there now and I think they have crushed since I am a fatass. The plastic ones may do the trick.

      As a general rule of thumb, how far out of the floor should the flange (that holds the bolts) be?

  2. DanH | Apr 01, 2005 09:54pm | #3

    The ideal situation is with the top of the flange 1/4" above the floor, as if the flange were sitting flush on top of the finished floor. Better low than high, though -- you're generally good down to the point where the top of the flange is almost flush with the floor, though at some point you may want to switch to a thicker ring or whatever.

    Note that if any of your expanding horn effectively adds thickness to the flange, then that could be the problem.

    Different people have different preferences for shims. There's really nothing wrong with pieces of cedar shake, or treated wood shims. Various types of plastic shims are used, but these tend to be unsightly -- though they're advertised as being able to be trimmed flush, that's not reality.

    I did see some hard rubber shims at a big box a few months back that looked like they might be good.

    Lots of folks prefer to use plaster of paris, or some sort of cement mixture.

    I'd really like to see toilets made with a mounting plate that is screwed down to the floor and leveled, before you place the bowl. Would make life a lot easier, especially in situations where the floor's not level or some such.

    1. User avater
      BillHartmann | Apr 01, 2005 10:27pm | #6

      And if you use shim after you have it stop rocking, which should only be one or two, keep adding more around it so that all of the force is not on a small area.

      1. DanH | Apr 01, 2005 10:30pm | #7

        Yep, if you need one you should use at least 3, maybe 4-5.

        1. alexpesta | Apr 01, 2005 10:44pm | #8

          I think the floor is in decent shape, but the flange is a little high and is causing the toilet to high-center. I will try to get it to within a 1/4" of the finish floor and if it is still too high, perhaps I will use ample plastic shims.

          1. Shacko | Apr 04, 2005 11:33pm | #11

            I probably am too late to help you with your problem with the toilet [Had computer problem],  but this is my two cents.  Toilet flange should sit flush with the finished floor;  that usually gives around 1/4 inch, depending on the type of flange you are using.  Flange must be fastened to the floor, thats why there are screw holes in them.  I don't know what you are saying about bending pipe down, but under no circumstances should you do this, you will create major problems!  If your flange is above the finished floor you have to cut it to get it flush.  When you get this done; unless you have a floor that is really out of level, you probably won't need shims.  If you have to use shims I recommend  cedar shingles [You can get them at the Home Depot]  if you have to use them, put them under the toilet where it won't rock then tighten the bolts; not too tight; and cut them off with a razor knife.  Caulk the toilet.  Thats to make sure any water dosen't go through the ceiling below!  Toilets do overflow.

          2. alexpesta | Apr 05, 2005 12:44am | #12

            Thanks for the advice. I did get things secure this weekend. The flange I used is a retrofit model since I am dealing with an old, lead, soil pipe. BUT, I basically did what you advised. I snipped any part of the lead pipe that was holding my flange up too high. That allowed it to level off without any problems. Then, I shimmed the toilet and tightened the bolts, being careful not to break the toilet base. So far things look good. I think the main problem I encoutnered was that I purchased a bigger wax ring (40% more wax!) than I needed and the extra wax was not allowing the toilet to sit flush (HA!!!) on the floor.

            I did have to modify the lead pipe a bit in order for the flange to slide down into it...not a big deal.

          3. Shacko | Apr 05, 2005 11:17pm | #13

            I had hoped that you didn't have lead in your plumbing system. When I got into the plumbing trade [43 years ago], it wasn't used anymore.  If your installation is working; fine, but if you have any future problems, [get the lead out]!  Lots of luck.

  3. DanH | Apr 01, 2005 09:56pm | #4

    PS: A properly-installed toilet should have absolutely zero wobble, regardless of the size of the a$$ sitting on it. If you can eliminate ALL wobble then the horn connection will never leak.

    1. alexpesta | Apr 01, 2005 10:01pm | #5

      YUP. that is why i am taking it apart this weekend to fix..especially since under the bathroom is a freshly dry-walled foyer.

      1. BrianWI | Apr 02, 2005 03:59am | #10

        i dunno what your floor is but if the closet collar is to high and you can remove it. Draw a scribe line before you take it out. then eliminate floor covering within the scribbed area.

        in the old days water closets were set in a bed of mud (similar to tile grout) bolted down and exess sponged away. ive done this a dozen or so times and it works well. ive also tuckpointed the grout in. you have to let these set though.

        all water closets are supposed to be caulked to the floor so bacteria cant get under there and flourish. (you cant normally clean there).

        the easiest way is to get shims, level it out, and inject silicoln caulk aroud it. let it set up. remove the shims and caulk the gaps.

        if yer a$$ is as heavy as you say you may want to substitute 5000 psi concrete for the grout.

  4. jrnbj | Apr 01, 2005 11:21pm | #9

    Commercial window installers use u shaped plastic shims that come in a range of thicknesses....make friends with one!

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