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Wonderboard failure

| Posted in General Discussion on January 7, 2004 07:06am

Hello,

 

I used some wonderboard under some counntertops in my house and planned to use it for the shower as well. I had some scrap that I threw out in the yard after I finished the countertop. When I went to throw it away a few months later, it had basically disintigrated when I picked it up. All the concrete fell apart and the mesh was filled with little styrofoam pieces. I was surprised that water would do this seeing as this stuff was recommended for showers. I spoke to a wonderboard marketing rep. who said the stuff can get wet for 30 years and not fail and that there is no styrofoam in it. I then called the company who makes it and they said the same thing. On the phone he said I must have purchased a different product. I checked my receipt and was charged for Wonderboard. I have only purchased this material once in my life so its not like I am getting my purchases screwed up. So, anyone have this problem with the stuff? Is the manufacturer lying to us about whats in it? Do they sell an inferior line of the stuff to Home Depot? Is Home Depot selling a knockoff product under the Wonderboard name without wonderboad knowing it? I didn’t go looking for this but now I want some answers. Any info. from you fine people would be much appreciated.

 

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Replies

  1. gdavis62 | Jan 07, 2004 07:15pm | #1

    What is Wonderboard?  There is Durock, Hardibacker, but I have never heard of a cement-board underlayment product called wonderboard.  Did you buy a flooring underlayment product that wasn't cement-based, meant for going under vinyl?

    My Google search struck out when I typed in Wonderboard.  Nothing that looked like a building product was returned.

    1. whalemania | Jan 07, 2004 07:22pm | #2

      Wonderboard is a concrete backer board. In google, type in Custom Building Products, click on product guide, then interior-wood and metal studs, wet area. Then click on #4.

  2. User avater
    Sphere | Jan 07, 2004 07:33pm | #3

    From your description it sounds like wonderboard..cementicious with a fiberglass mesh...the styrofoam?  Never ran across THAT. Mr. Micro googled wonderboard, I did tile backer, got a BobVilla forum..Denseshield, Hardi, wonderboard..no mention of what you describe...sorry.   Post a pic?...

    1. whalemania | Jan 07, 2004 08:17pm | #5

      Sphere, I have a digital pic, how to I attach it?

      1. whalemania | Jan 07, 2004 08:24pm | #6

        file:///A:/MVC-005F.JPG

      2. User avater
        Sphere | Jan 07, 2004 08:41pm | #7

        that's a pain to describe but I'll give it a whack..reply to this post..find the attach files blue box (scroll down) select file from the list where the pic is,use browse, hit upload now, it take awhile..then done..it ought to go we hope..try to keep it at a 640x480 so dial ups can get as well

        1. whalemania | Jan 07, 2004 09:17pm | #8

          No can do, I have no attach files blue box, I looked averywhere. I will get it on as soon as I can. I can send it to an emial address if you want to see it.

          1. rez | Jan 07, 2004 09:40pm | #11

            The 'attach files' box is in the same line of 5 boxes that you have to click on to post a reply.

            When the window comes up click on browse, that will take you to your pic depending on where you click to retrieve it from which is where you have it in your computer, or camera.

             

             

          2. whalemania | Jan 07, 2004 09:53pm | #12

            Guys, I really wish I had that fifth box. I have POST, PREVIEW, SPELLCHECK and CANCEL. No fifth box.

            If anyone can just give me their e-mail address, I will send it to them and then maybe they can attach for me. Its a simple jpeg.

          3. gdavis62 | Jan 07, 2004 10:02pm | #13

            You need to go the section at this site that lets you change your preferences.  Find it, and click on "advanced" or something like that.  Then you can attach files.  BTW, make sure your JPEG is no larger than about 60K.

            Edited 1/7/2004 2:04:57 PM ET by Mr. Micro

          4. JohnSprung | Jan 07, 2004 10:02pm | #14

            Scroll all the way to the bottom of these messages and you'll see either "Is this too complicated? Switch to basic view" or "Switch to Advanced View".  If you're in basic mode, that may be the problem.  These are in a smallish font near the bottom, so it takes some effort to find them.

            -- J.S.

          5. User avater
            Sphere | Jan 07, 2004 10:25pm | #15

            email me @ [email protected]   I'll post it fer ya..

          6. whalemania | Jan 07, 2004 10:42pm | #16

            wow, got it. Appreciate the help. Here is the photo. I opened up the mesh so you could see the styrofoam pellets inside. I appreciate any comments.

          7. User avater
            EricPaulson | Jan 07, 2004 10:52pm | #17

            I'm thinking you left it out exposed to the elements in cluding freeze/thaw. I would think that would do it as well as being run over or tromped by foot traffic.

            I've seen it look like that but only after long exposure to the elements.

            Perhaps the location of purchase attatched their own SKU (that they once had on Wonderboard) to another like product. I'm not sure what you have is actually Wonderboard but perhaps a similiar product.

            I would'nt worry; whats the use?

            Eric

          8. User avater
            Sphere | Jan 07, 2004 11:02pm | #19

            I agree with you BUT...30 yrs. is what the rep. said. And NO styrofoam...what is that stuff ( I bet it weighs less, maybe good for a tile cieling)..he ( I assume, a he) said this is after a few months out side...???  Right there is likely no worries for the stuff installed , thats not the fact, the facts are thats some odd stuff.

          9. cutawooda | Jan 08, 2004 01:46am | #26

            I cannot help but think that you bought something different than what you thought you bought. Please check into that!!! I would like to know. I just installed wonder board and it had no stryofoam in it. It cut exactly like durock. If Depot sold that under Wonderboard name there is gonna be trouble! But sku numbers are in the computer. Check your recept again..maybe it is a Honduran knock-off called "Wonderbad" and you didnt catch it.

          10. User avater
            Sphere | Jan 08, 2004 01:50am | #27

            Wasn't me..whalemania is your direct.  I agree with you tho.

          11. User avater
            EricPaulson | Jan 08, 2004 02:32am | #29

            I've seen and used that product before. It is not WONDERBOARD but a similiar product. I am not sure that the whites are styro though I can't recall.

            Probably picked it up at a lumber yard or a drywall supply.

            Eric

          12. whalemania | Jan 08, 2004 05:45pm | #30

            Home depot has some explaining to do. Like I said, I bought this stuff once in my life, so its not like I am getting it confused with some other product bought somewhere else. I am heading there this afternoon, will post later tonight.

            By the way, their marketing rep., who appeared so defiant that the stuff I was talking about was not his product, has yet to return my call. Thats funny, because he seemed so interested for me to call him while he was in front of all the other HD customers.

          13. joeh | Jan 08, 2004 06:29pm | #31

            Did it have a label on it when you bought it?

            There is a tape label on sez Wonderboard cement backer board  - Custom building products Seal Beach CA. Tape goes all across the sheet, maroon & yellow. It's hard to miss.

            Believe me, there is no styrofoam in that stuff. It's more likely to have lead in it than foam.

            Joe H

          14. whalemania | Jan 08, 2004 07:50pm | #32

            can't say whether the pieces i have down had the label, but it was sold as wonderboard. I actually do remember i had to remove a label so when I put the tile down it would stick. I have one vanity untiled and it sure looks like wonderboard. Hey, anyone near colchester, ct is welcome to come and see for themselves.  

          15. woodroe | Jan 09, 2004 04:07am | #34

            I have used both wonderboard and durock. Those are the only two I've used (to my knowledge) and I do remember seeing the white beads in the wonderboard. Styrofoam, of course, is a trade name, perhaps they are avoiding your question for some reason by saying there is no Styrofoam in their product. Maybe the more direct question should be "What are the white beads in my wonderboard?" Have you looked, or perhaps dug into the corner of a piece of wonderboard at HD and looked for the beads?

          16. whalemania | Jan 09, 2004 04:48pm | #35

            I went to HD yesterday. The flooring guy, who seemed pretty knoweledgable took a good look at it, and said it looks like wonderboard to him. Same size, same tapered edges, same texture as far as he could tell from what was left. He wanted it and I said no.

            Woodtick, You got it right, they are little white beads. While I was in the store a few days ago, the marketing rep did start breaking off the ends of a few boards on the rack, and crushing them and there was none to be found. Makes me think its not in there anymore of that they encase the beads in concrete first before adding them to the board.

            Well, thanks for all the replies and conversation. I'm not sure what to do next, whether I should do anything. I am certainly going to return the pieces I have left, the ones I was thinking of using for the shower. I just can't use this stuff in a wet area after seeing this. I'll switch to durorock. If custom building products marketing rep. ever returns my calls, I'll post what he said for info. Thanks again

          17. joeh | Jan 09, 2004 06:50pm | #36

            If you still have some of the original purchase left, do they have labels?

            Wonderboard sold here has a tape label running across the sheet from side to side. All the way across.

            Tough stuff, it's like tyvek with a glossy finish. Sez Wonderboard. There's also something printed on it too, I think maby where it's made.

            If it doesn't have that, I'd wonder what it is.

            Joe H

          18. whalemania | Jan 10, 2004 05:15pm | #37

            I bought my first batch on 3/25/03. I used everything I had for countertops, except for the pieces I threw in the yard, those are the ones that disintegrated. On 4/7/03, I went back to th esame store, and bought more of the same product, and yes, they have the wonderboard labels across them. Same product as the first batch I bought, I am 110%sure. The second batch was what I bought to use the shower, though I haven't got to it yet ( no surprise there, eh? ). That is the batch I am returning.  

            By the way, the marketing rep called me back, said he was going to talk to the HD guy that has the samples and saw the piece, and then get back to me. Will post when he does.

          19. Shep | Jan 09, 2004 02:46am | #33

                   Sorry for the delay in responding. As someone else already said, its probably Perma Base. http://www.gold-bond/resources/codereports/5731pdf

          20. FastEddie1 | Jan 10, 2004 05:52pm | #38

            I have seen something recently, but can't find it now.  I thought it was a "What's the diff" in FHB  but I looked at the past 4 issues and no luck.  Maybe it was a mfgr brochure in the store.  But anyway, it was refering to a cement backerboard product, and it stated that the product contained styrofoam beads, and sure enough you could see the little white/grey round balls in the mix, maybe 10%.

            Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

          21. User avater
            Sphere | Jan 07, 2004 10:55pm | #18

            WOW is right!!!!...I have never seen that stuff before..You got that at Home Desperate? Sold As wonderboard? I'd say" I wonder where my real wonderboard is?"...been doing this stuff a lonf time..20+ years...That is a horse of a different color...I do hope some body here knows what is going on...How long out side?..Good work on figguring out the pic attachment!

          22. billyg | Jan 07, 2004 11:06pm | #20

            It sounds like you got Wedi-Board instead of Wonderboard.

            http://www.buymosaictile.com/wediboard.html

            Wedi has been used in Europe for a long time.  I haven't use it yet, but I will.  It is very light and easy to cut, and it has some R value.  However, you do need to seal the cut edges.  People who have used it speak highly of it.

            Billy

          23. User avater
            Sphere | Jan 07, 2004 11:15pm | #21

            Cool, thanx. Again tho, only "Blue styrofoam" I eversaw was not beaded like the white he has...????hmmmm?

          24. billyg | Jan 07, 2004 11:35pm | #22

            You're right about the blue color.  It looks like he got EasyBoard from Custom rather than the Wedi:

            http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/onlyproducts/PREP/BACKERBOARDS&_ACC/Easyboard12.htm

            I've heard that EasyBoard is less expensive than the Wedi.  Strange that the Wedi is spec'ed for floor underlayment but the Easyboard is not.  Wedi is also sold by Bonsal under the name Propannel.

            I plan to use some under a radiant heat floor over an old unisulated slab.

            Billy

          25. whalemania | Jan 07, 2004 11:36pm | #23

            I finished the job sometime in may, and went to throw the scraps which were outside away in about august. So, it was outside about 3-4 months. No freezing and thawing of any prolonged significance during that period. Also, it was not light. It was heavy. As heavy if not heavier than the durock I just bought yesterday. Like I said before, installed, it will never see the elements like it did outside but I don't appreciate the marketing  rep. and the manufacture telling me it will last forever and that there is no crap inside it. I am heading to Home Depot in the next few days and meeting the rep. and the manager of the contractors desk. I will keep you guys posted if your interested.  

          26. Shep | Jan 08, 2004 12:43am | #24

                   My lumber carried that cement board with the styrofoam beads for a while. I can't remember the brand name, but I'll try to find out and post it later. Its supposed to be lighter and a little easier to cut, but I found it to be about the same as all the rest. I've never seen it disintegrated like that, tho.

  3. BobKovacs | Jan 07, 2004 07:52pm | #4

    Permabase is a perlite/cement mix that's formed into boards.  It's used as EIFS backup in high-impact situations.  Like Durock and the others, it's not supposedly affected by water (I've used it in commercial applications, as well as under mt tile countertops and floors).  I wonder if that's what you got.  I've NEVER seen it disintegrate like that though...

    Bob

  4. Scooter1 | Jan 07, 2004 09:19pm | #9

    I've used Wonderboard for 20 years, and while I dislike it and now use other products, it is a fine product and I have never, ever experienced a failure. To my knowledge there is no styrofoam in the product. It is merely cement encased by a fiberglass mesh. The mesh is delicate and will degrade over time when exposed to air or UV rays. But under a countertop or on shower walls, this is not an issue.

    I would not lose a single second of sleep over this.

    Regards,

    Boris

    "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

    1. whalemania | Jan 07, 2004 09:24pm | #10

      Boris, Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am not overly worried about its failure once tile is applied. Its just that seeing it in this condition surprised me. If I ever get this picture on, you are going to be surprised as well. The mesh is the only part of the stuff still intact.

  5. mike4244 | Jan 08, 2004 12:56am | #25

    I have used Wonderboard from HD, it's the real McCoy as far as I can see. There is no styrofoam in it. I have used it for a crawl space enclosure, instead of masonry. It has been out in the weather for 4 years without any deteriation. No paint, but a coat of water seal. If you actually used wonderboard I wouldn't worry. The photo does appear to be wonderboard, did you have styrofoam  insulation stacked on top?

    mike

  6. Derr82 | Jan 08, 2004 01:58am | #28

    It's Perma Base, just as someone else already stated.  The Home Deepthroats around my neck of the woods no longer carry Wonderboard or Durock just that crap and Hardibacker.  I go to Lowes for Durock now.

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