*
If anyone has recommendations for my upcoming dilemma, I’d really appreciate them. In our about-to-be-completed new house, I’m planning on installing wood block flooring from 1/2-3/4″ slices of 6/6’s. My first hurdle seems to be finding a saw that will cut them – presumably a 15″ size, which I hope to rent, since our contractor doesn’t have one that will do the job. My biggest question at this point, is what kind of adhesive to use to glue them down, and also, what to use for the “grout” between each one. Now, before I go any farther, I can read your mind. You think I’m crazy for doing this. After all, it’s not the normal, everyday, accepted type of wood flooring, i.e., boards/planks. However, I KNOW it’s done. I have a dear friend who did this herself, with help from her builder, many years ago. It’s absolutely beautiful. As the years go by, it becomes richer in color and texture. Yes, the blocks crack. Yes, they have warped some. She uses the same “grout” to fill-in the cracks that she used initially – plain white glue & sawdust! This is a living, breathing, beautiful floor. However, her floor is on standard subfloor, with forced air heating system. Ours will be radiant (water tubes) heat in gypcrete. SO, hence my question about adhesive & grout. Would I use the same products as would be used to install tile on this type of floor? Perhaps I should lay the blocks tight, without grout? And, when all is done, what type of sealant would you recommend? I’m planning to install this in the entry, hall & guest bath areas.
Thanks, so much, for any advice that will help me accomplish this (back breaking!) dream. I won’t even mind if you advise against it………
Replies
*
Kris,
Sounds beautiful.
I've never done this so I can't give you any first hand experience but the trowel on thin set sounds like a good choice. They also make a spreadable liquid nail that comes in a gallon can. We've used that stuff to spread behind large panels. Now normally you wouldn't glue a panel to the wall, you would want it to float. But these panels were made of sinker cypress that were not as dry as we would have liked. Don't know the outcome, they have only been up for about a month or two. I got of the subject, sort of, but I,m thinking that a panel adhesive made for wood products might be your better choice that thin set made for tile. Just a thought.
On renting a 15" mitre box......get a good cross-cut blade to keep down the saw marks. Having a local mill cut these squares for you may be cheaper than renting and buying a good blade. But you will need to know about how many you will need in advance. I really can't think of a better way to cut that size lumber that thin with two square and flat surfaces in one cut other than a very large mitre box.
On grout.....I don't know. Glue will seal the surface so you can't stain it.
I like the idea, but I might try a combination of different woods to create a pattern in the floor.
I've gone on too long now.
Post some pictures when it's done.
I yield the floor,
Ed. Williams
*Hi Kris,With regards to the saw, you should use a large band saw instead with a starter fence. Will make a cleaner cut and make very consistent pieces.See Ed, you can get ahead of the canucks on posting.Gabe
*Kris- I think it's a great idea. My Junior High shop class had this type of floor, laid over concrete. It was a great floor- easy on the feet, easy on dropped tools, but I don't remember any grout or filler. They did shrink a little in the winter and expand tight in the hot humid weather.Let us know how it turned out when you're done!John
*I dont know that saw marks would be that big an issue as you will probably want to sand the floor after installation . I saw this done somewhere , dont remember where but they used the glue and sawdust for grout and I think polyurethane for the finish . I think they used a tile mastic instead of thinset but Ed's suggestion of construction adhesive would probably work just fine . What kind of wood are you using ? Some species will expand and contract more than others . Chuck
*Kris - I am currently remodeling a kitchen and the customer specifically demanded end grain flooring blocks where the floor transitions between dining room and kitchen. I searched high and low for this type of flooring, to no avail (to compound the challenge, we have to "ramp up" to make up a 3/4" difference in height which we plan to do by kind of "sculpting"). Anyway, we finally settled on 6x6 kiln dried Doulas Fir (that was the largest we can buy kiln dried locally) and to test the look I bought a #2 6x6 at the lumber yard and sliced off pieces with a rented skilsaw (I think it was 15 or 16"). Worked great. I used a rip fence and set it 1" from the blade and started slicin'. Of course, I had the beam clamped to saw horses, and the slices fell harmlessly to the floor as I cut them. Took, maybe an hour to slice up an 8' beam.If you experiment a bit with your pieces you will see the opportunity for creating some beautiful grain patterns. We are going over traditional subfloor, so I can't really help you there, but I plan to edge glue all four sides of each block and do some sanding while the glue is still at least tacky. We are going to try and do this with no grout or space between blocks. - jb
*
I HAVE INSTALLED AND FINISHED THOUSANDS OF FEET OF END GRAIN FIR FLOORING.I WOULD GO TO YOUR LOCAL FLOORING SUPPLY CENTER AND PURCHASE 5 GALLON CONTAINERS OF FLOOR ADHESIVE[APPROX 50 SQ.FT./GAL].I WOULD SAND THE FLOOR,AND TROWELFILL THE FLOOR WITH A LATEX FILLER TO MATCH THE COLOR OF THE WOOD,THEN SAND THE WHOLE FLOOR SMOOTH.THE FLOOR SHOULD THEN BE POLISHED AND PREPARED FOR STAIN.SINCE THIS IS END GRAIN MATERIAL THE STAIN MAY HAVE TO BE APPLIED SEVERAL TIMES .
*
My God man,
Do you have to yell?
Ed. Williams
*
What great ideas! What great advice! And here I thought everyone would tell me I'm crazy to do this - like my husband....... I'm off to the lumber yard tomorrow! Step one - get the posts. Step two - hire my friend's young(!) son with strong back and limber joints to help me.
One other thing, if anyone has thoughts - should this "gypcrete" be treated before glueing the blocks down?
Thanks so much to everyone.
P.S. Let me know how you do, too, Jim - My "transition" areas are at carpet and wood laminate - 'thought about "sculpting" by sanding, but will cross that bridge when I get to it.
P.S. II THANKS, WOOD FLOOR EXPERT! YOU MENTIONED 'POLISHING' - WHAT SURFACE TREATMENT DO YOU USE?
*USE A SANDING SCREEN TO POLISH YOUR FLOOR.ANY OIL BASED STAIN COULD BE USED FOR YOUR FINISH. WHEN YOU INSTALL YOUR FLOOR MAKE SURE THAT YOUR MATERIAL HAS A MOISTURE CONTENT BETWEEN 6 & 8% OTHERWISE YOUR FLOOR WILL SHRINK.
*
It's not crazy ...... floors of this type were used for years in mills and factories ....... usually made of maple.
*I would use a band saw. Sanding will be tricky and tend to eat a lot of discs (if you use a disc machine) if the blocks are not very accurately cut to length. I don't care for drum floor sanders.Don't under estimate the volume of lumber you will need. You will use up all your scraps and then more. I have seen these floors done with resin, too.
*The Liquid Nails has pretty poor workability. Consider one of the professional line adhesive for fewer headaches (literally, too -- the PL and OSI and stuff doesn't smell as bad). Maybe try a little test setup and walk over it for a while before you commit to doing the whole floor, a dry run.Good luck, it sounds great.
*There was a segment on one of Bob Villa's programs where they installed end-grain blocks. As I recall, the "tiles" were about three-by-four inches, already nicely sanded, and the edges were rounded off slightly. I don't recall what adhesive was used, but I think they left about 1/8 to 1/4 inch between then tiles and made the grout from sawdust and linseed oil. I don't think you would want to pack the blocks tightly together with no expansion space at all because of the relatively large cross-grain expansion problem. Another possible grout would be the black rubbery stuff that boat-builders put between the teak strips on decking.
*
Does anyone know where interested parties could see photographs of this type of flooring?
*
I don't know about photographs, but if you're near Portland, OR, there's a 2x4 end-grain fir floor in the Forestry Center at the zoo and Hoyt Arboretum.
*As I recall, the grout used on the Bob Vila show was a combination of sawdust and the polyurethane used for the finish. The wood was from salvaged warehouse timbers. I think the adhesive was a trowelable glue also.p.s. I liked how the floor looked quite a bit! Using the real old timbers probably helped keep the shrinking and swelling down some, as presumably they were pretty dry by that point.
*I saw that Bob Vila episode last weekend. They used sawdust mixed with a sealer. The ratio was 2:3, I think, but I forget which was 2 and which was 3. They used fine steel wool to spread it around and clean off the excess from the blocks. After the grout set up, they went over the floor again with just the sealer. I don't believe polyurethane was ever applied.
*
Have you considered NOT adhering the wood "tiles" to the concrete at all? Concrete always has some moisture content that may be detrimental to the wicking properties of the wood tiles you are going to create. You might consider laying down poly sheeting 4 mil or similar stuff they use for a lot of the modern day flooring products out there (Home Depot, etc) that are designed to "float" without being attached to the main under floor. If you plan to glue all four sides of each tile to each other, isn't this about the same as a lot of the floating floors I mentioned? The poly barrier or the cushioned version of material used for Pergo flooring might also be interesting and would presumably block a lot of the moisture problems you might encounter. Your floor may be "quiter" and even more comfortable by using the stuff I've seen for Pergo and other wood flooring that uses steel clips to assemble, without benefit of being permanently being adhered to the under floor. Repairs (or rip-outs) in the future would also be easier. Ever try to clean construction adhesive off of concrete? Not an easy task!
*
See, I thought the sealer WAS polyurethane. If not, do you remember what they used? As a guess, I think I would start at 3 parts sawdust, and add sealer until I liked the consistency-just wet enough to fill the gaps. You're right about the steel wool, I remember that now too.
*I can't think of anything that would have less structural integrity than a bunch of end-grain softwood blocks glued edge to edge. I doubt if you can break Pergo easily, and I know you can't break solid hardwood or plywood flooring by hand. Parquet block flooring is reinforced with aluminum wires. But it is pretty easy to break a 1" softwood end cutoff. Put this over resilient backing and it would last about as long as it took to walk across it.
*Bryan,I'm pretty sure they didn't say polyurethane, because I remember thinking "Well, that's different", since polyurethane is the norm. I think they just used the term "sealer". Maybe it was a polyurethane sealer. I shoulda paid more attention.
*
There was an article in Fine Homebuilding showing pictures of just this type of flooring. It was in a 1997 issue, I think, on "choosing wood flooring." The product in the article was called Cobbled Wood Endblock and is made from recycled factory beams by International Wood Products (I think) in Maryland. They use a cork grout that looks great. Can be sanded and polyurethaned just like the wood. What's nice about their product is that the wood is well cured and dried. We're considering it for floor of our new house. JD Brinkman is our distributor and quoted our contractor at about $6/sf.
*I saw this type of floor at the Denver Museum of Art in their temporary exhibit space years ago. It was impressive. Not sure what kind of wood was used or how it was set to the subfloor/slab.There must be a museum directory on the net. Maybe they have some usefull info.Good luck.
*
If anyone has recommendations for my upcoming dilemma, I'd really appreciate them. In our about-to-be-completed new house, I'm planning on installing wood block flooring from 1/2-3/4" slices of 6/6's. My first hurdle seems to be finding a saw that will cut them - presumably a 15" size, which I hope to rent, since our contractor doesn't have one that will do the job. My biggest question at this point, is what kind of adhesive to use to glue them down, and also, what to use for the "grout" between each one. Now, before I go any farther, I can read your mind. You think I'm crazy for doing this. After all, it's not the normal, everyday, accepted type of wood flooring, i.e., boards/planks. However, I KNOW it's done. I have a dear friend who did this herself, with help from her builder, many years ago. It's absolutely beautiful. As the years go by, it becomes richer in color and texture. Yes, the blocks crack. Yes, they have warped some. She uses the same "grout" to fill-in the cracks that she used initially - plain white glue & sawdust! This is a living, breathing, beautiful floor. However, her floor is on standard subfloor, with forced air heating system. Ours will be radiant (water tubes) heat in gypcrete. SO, hence my question about adhesive & grout. Would I use the same products as would be used to install tile on this type of floor? Perhaps I should lay the blocks tight, without grout? And, when all is done, what type of sealant would you recommend? I'm planning to install this in the entry, hall & guest bath areas.
Thanks, so much, for any advice that will help me accomplish this (back breaking!) dream. I won't even mind if you advise against it.........