Hi All,
I plan on making a wood countertop for my bathroom. I want to make it out of oak. What I figure I’m going to do is take oak strip flooring 3/4″ x 2 1/4″ and install it on a 3/4″ piece of plywood like you would a floor, stain it and seal it. Pop out a hole for the sink and faucet and done. Does anyone see a problem with this? Any better suggestions for a wood countertop? Thanks so much.
RD
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Replies
seal it..huh. With what pray tell?
Welcome to BT ..hang on it might be a helluva ride!
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Care to elaborate Sphere?
<G> well lets see here..
some will advise against laminating to plywood..
some will steer you towards a finish that may or may not be doable
most of all we like to give rock solid advice and at times new comers can get ..shall we say..overwhelmed..
Me, I'd use a solid wood ( no ply) and a good spar varnish..even tho' it's interior..bathrooms are humid.
And I despise poly any thanes
ok?
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Rick,,
Realistically, Sphere is right.
I'm not saying what you want to do can't be done, but the comment:
"What I figure I'm going to do is take oak strip flooring 3/4" x 2 1/4" and install it on a 3/4" piece of plywood like you would a floor,"
leads me to believe this is not an artistic endevor, with an appropriate budget to do it right. If you care to elaborate, go for it, otherwise take Sphere's advice.
Jon
Not exactky sure what you mean by an artistic endeavor or the budget comment, but I'm not planning on slapping something together in ten minutes and being done. I have never made a top like this before and and this was my idea for an oak countertop that has the strip effect of oak flooring. I planned on using Spar varnish to finish it as Sphere had mentioned. The purpose of the post was to get feedback on other ways to approach this such as sphere mentioned using a solid piece as opposed to laminating to ply. Good advice, what size solid oak would you use? It's okay to critic my post, just give some more details so I can take something away from this forum. I originally wanted to use a solid piece of wood but I wanted to get the effect of the lines in the strips of wood like you have on the floor with oak, so that is how i decided on the plan that I posted. Would love a better idea if someone has one on achieving this look another (better) way.
Ricky1,
Have you priced Butcher Block tops? Available in standard sizes in both oak and maple. Can be cut to size. First time a client asked me about it and I priced it, I couldn't believe how cheap it was. They also have what they call 'food grade finish' and will sell you some if you need to seal up an end.
skipj
Hey Skip - where'd you go for Buthcher Block counter tops? I'm in need of one at the moment.
"where'd you go for Buthcher Block counter tops? I'm in need of one at the moment"
Ron,
They are VERY heavy. Buy local.
And a FWIW, most places seem to charge at least double what they pay for them. I was able to buy two 96" x 30" x 2 1/4" "rock maple" tops for $215.00 (each) via a family/employee "discount" from an industrial suppler. That was about two years ago. Used the best one for a countertop, and the other for a workbench.
Jon
Butcher blocks & countertops:
http://www.johnboos.com/
Billy
Billy,
Wouldn't surprise me that's the mfr of the ones I purchased. Relatively local, same sizes, and used the words "Varnique semi-gloss seal" in their product description, which the tops I bought through an industrial supplier used the their description.
In general a good product. But, ordering one, and not being happy is very possible. Of the two I purchased, only one was worthy of being a counter top. (my plan all along) Their stated "retail" prices are way on the high side IMO. If you buy from a local supplier, and are not happy with the grain pattern, at least you can exchange it for another.
Plan on a really good refinishing. I probably put 10 hours into the one I installed in my kitchen. Six coats of polyurethane sanded and scuffed to a sheen with Scotchbrite. Looks almost, but not quite like oil, but is completely waterproof. and BTW, it is NEVER used for cutting on.
Jon
"The purpose of the post was to get feedback on other ways to approach this such as sphere mentioned using a solid piece as opposed to laminating "
Fair enough Rick,
Getting late here now, but I'll see what thoughts pop into my head overnite. Sometimes we all try to read too much into posts, and all too often, rightfully so.
For the most of us, posting here is just a hobby.
Jon
For the most of us, posting here is just a hobby.
yeah, those of you that are in denial, for the rest, it's an addiction.
For the most of us, posting here is just a hobby.
yeah, those of you that are in denial, for the rest, it's an addiction.
Niel,..........
DEfine "denial", DEfine ""addiction".
Man, you set yourself up for that one.
Jon
Ricky
Forget the flooring-on-plywood option. It only sort-of works, and in a bathroom environment, it's not a good idea. Instead, I would recommend gluing up solid oak; use a nominal 2" thickness (1¾" planed). With planed oak 2x2's you will see the strip effect you are looking for when it's all done.
To do it without pipe clamps, bore each 2x2 in two or more places (depending on the width of the counter), so that you can insert threaded rod and crank it down on the glue with them. Avoid the area where the cutout for the sink will be when you're placing the rods. When you're all done, you trim the rods short enough to hide inside the end strips, plug the holes in the front 2x2 with oak plugs, and leave them there. Should you ever have trouble with the top delaminating, you can crank down on the nuts from the back edge of the counter. (Make sure you put double lock nuts on the front end of the rod, and crank them together as tightly as you can.)
Assuming you don't have a 25" planer, once you build this you might want to take it to your friendly local cabinet shop and pay them a few bucks to run it through theirs. Otherwise, you're in for a lot of hand work.
For finishing: Oil it with teak (not 'Tung') oil. Like this: Oil it once a day for a week. Then oil it once a week for a month. Then oil it once a month for a year. Then oil it once a year for life. If you treat it that way, it will outlast your house....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Skipj, Dinosaur thanks for the information, really appreciate it.
You can check countertops and butcherblock https://glumber.com/butcher-block-countertops-options/
Okay, I'll jump in here, too.
Basically…..don't do that.
Consider for a moment that the reason flooring is ripped to these narrower widths is to minimize the size of the cracks between each individual board on the floor and to minimize the potential for the cupping of each individual board. This presumes that the flooring was adequately acclimated to the ambient RH of the house before it was installed and then sanded flat. Failure to acclimate properly will result in either additional and excessive cupping and gapping or the potential for buckling from excessive expansion if the flooring was installed at a moisture content that was too dry to be in sync with the ambient RH. Even at the very best, there will be eventual movement resulting in gaps between the boards……even if the flooring is vertical grained/quarter sawn stock. When these gaps occur, they will not be your friend on a bathroom countertop housing a sink and being exposed to the inevitable water spills and splashes, not to mention the other soaps and chemicals that will also inevitably find their way into the cracks. Finish failure will follow.
And so, let's consider what will happen if you glue these pieces together into a single sheet of solid wood and then fasten that onto a piece of plywood. The total width of your solid wood is going to change dimension at a much faster rate than the underlying plywood. The result will be that the solid wood will crack open, buckle or cup severely. Bear in mind that the top of this solid wood layer will be exposed to drastically changing humidity conditions while the underside of it will be out of sync with that because the plywood will drastically buffer its exposure. One of the aforementioned results is virtually inevitable unless you encase it in a ½" thick layer of epoxy. Just a couple coats of spar varnish or the like isn't going to prevent this from happening; at best it can only stall and reduce the effect.
And also……..since the solid wood will change in dimension, how would you address the exposed edges for a finished look while still hiding the edges of the underlying plywood, which won't be moving at the same rate?
The only reliable way to get the look you desire is to take thicker solid stock, rip it into pieces of the desired width and glue it all back together again, but only after mixing up the pieces so that the grain doesn't match on neighboring pieces. You'd have then the look you indicate you desire.
I began building furniture and cabinetry back in the 70's and I can tell you from personal experience that I'm not a big fan of solid wood countertops in either bathrooms or kitchens…………unless they're just there for show or the inhabitants are truly anal. Finish failure is pretty much inevitable. Usually sooner than is expected or acceptable/agreeable to the owners of such. ( Oil finished cutting surfaces/boards would be the exception, but I wouldn't recommend that in a bathroom countertop,either) But if you decide to proceed with this, then I still recommend that you build by ripping and regluing from solid stock, making absolutely certain you seal the sink cutout and any other holes very well and that you put identical amounts of finish on the bottom of the countertop as on the top.
Since this countertop WILL change in dimensional width from season to season, make certain you fasten it down to the cabinets in a manner that will allow for that movement. While there are numerous high-tech and marine finishes that you could use, a commonly available finish that would serve you without breaking the bank and wouldn't be terribly difficult to strip when it's time to refinish, would be several coats of a quality oil-based poly.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 5/14/2004 12:04 am ET by GOLDHILLER
Hey Goldhiller,
Wow, very informative reply. I feel liked I've been spanked and sent to my room. I really appreciate all the replies I've recieved so far. Do have many more questions, will return to the board tonite. Thanks again guys you are all very helpful.
Rick
If you have your heart set on oak, I'd prefer to rip the tongues and grooves off then biscuit and glue them together. How do you plan on treating the edge, or wil this just be a 3/4" edge?
How about the sink? A drop-in?
Do you have a budget?
I did a set of teak kitchen countertops not to long ago. 8/4 thickness, epoxied up four boards to make about 28 running feet of 30" deep countertops. Also did a 5" thick end-grain butcher block island endcap, about 4' square.
8/4 teak will run you around $10 a board-foot, or $20 for each square foot of countertop. Easy to fabricate, it'll wear like iron, it handles water beautifully, looks gorgeous, no film finish is required, and the construction is quite simple.
Plus, you'll not be dickering around with edge treatments, spar varnish, etc, etc, as you would with the oak.
Not exactky sure what you mean by an artistic endeavor or the budget comment
Well, Jon was just too polite to say it's going to look like crap. :)
Think about the edge treatment, how do you make it look like it's not strip flooring. The easiest way to do it and probably the cheapest when you take you own time into account is to buy a butcher block top from a shop, have them cut to size and finish the edge. Then put on some kind of water resistent finish.
Don't let anybody scare you, sure you can use wood in bathroom. Just have to be the right kind of wood, properly fabricated and finished, and probably taken care of after installation.
Good luck.
Ricky1, whew! You have to admit all this input is entertaining! Let me entertain you. I built my first wood table out of a bridge timber that I salvaged and that is the only top I ever put together with threaded rod. Not needed here. I did my first wood bathroom counter out of oak plywood with oak selfedging. I used spar varnish, only 3 coats, sanded between coats, and it lasted 3 years before I had to sand lightly and add a new topcoat. The wood slpash was sealed to the deck with brown latex calk and was finished in with top. I have also edgeglued wood strips together for counters with powdered resin glue, the kind we used to join our mitres on full formed laminate tops. No failures. The key to finish is to finish both sides. Dito on the budget: unless you are mathcing oak to existing wood, there are some very beautiful woods out there. Have fun. I'll do it again someday.
Avon @ Witty Inventions.
there now, what'd I tell ya?
I'll give ya good deal on some Avodire and Padauk...
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Rick,
OK, if it were me doing it for someone, I'd just go out and buy a pre-made top, here's a link with prices, figure half of what they quote if you are connected:
http://www.hardwood-lumber.com/butcherblock-prices.html
and re-finish it with a finish that will withstand what you think it will be subjected to on all sides prior to installation. What to use? There are clear finishes out there for wooden boats, but you may be able to get by with several coats of oil. Only you know what it'll be subjected to.
It should weigh enough that you should not have to fasten it down, but for safety sake, I'd find a way to get two screws into it at longitudinal opposite ends. Given it's going to inevitably move, you don't want to anchor it on all four corners.
Now you could also make one up yourself, using epoxy and solid lumber....and DEPENDING on your skills and tools available, make one better than you can buy, but I personally would never consider doing that unless I was getting AT LEAST 4X the cost of a stock one, and that's the retail price.
Jon
Thanks for the info and link. Just yesterday a customer inquired about a butcher-block table.
MES
Have you used these guys from the link? How bad was shipping and is the quality good? I have a couple of built in desks that I need tops for and I was going to glue them up myself. The only problem I have is I don't have a wide enough sander to make it perfectly flat, and I am kind of short on time as well.
"Have you used these guys from the link? How bad was shipping and is the quality good?"
RJ,
See above to Billy, and I was refering to the
http://www.johnboos.com/
link, not what I posted.
Jon
Edited 5/14/2004 12:11 pm ET by WorkshopJon
I have bought several of the 10 " thick Boos block butcher block tables and they hold up great -- gave them to siblings for wedding presents because they last forever and get used every day. Look in pro and restauarant kitchens and you'll see the Boos blocks. But I've never used their countertops.
Billy
Edited 5/14/2004 12:22 pm ET by Billy
Guys thanks for all your posts. The "kids" bitrhday this weekend so haven't had a chance to follow up on these posts until know ( for a brief minute). One question for the moment that I'm curious about, If I was to look into purchasing say a butcher block countertop what kind of supplier would I begin my search? Lumberyards? This is unfamiliar ground for me. Also can I get these in different stained finishes? The wood on the walls is on the darker side. I have some more questions for you pros when I finish cleaning birthay cake off the ceiling and under the couch, think we'll go out next year :)
Thanks
Grizzly, the importers of power tools, has 1.75" tops in lengths from 3 to 10 feet and widths of 24", 30" and 36".
Here's the catalog page: http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2004/222.cfm?
K-
-
So many people preach equity in golf. Nothing is so foreign to the truth. Does any human being receive what he conceives as equity in his life? He has got to take the bitter with the sweet, and as he forges through all the intricacies and inequalities which life presents, he proves his metal. In golf the cardinal rules are arbitrary and not founded on eternal justice. Equity has nothing to do with the game itself. If founded on eternal justice the game would be deadly dull to watch and play. --Charles Blair Macdonald
I've seen this done before and after a few months it looked horrible!!
If anything, turn the oak on its edges and glue it together. Might be a better result but 4x the amt of flooring.
Be floored
andy
My life is my passion!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
And, another alternative not yet mentioned, would be to get a sheet of oak veneered plywood with a matching lumber band. Now you have a stable substrate, and a stable veneer on that.
For a nice tight band edge, use a table saw to cut a relieved rabbet in the band, then blind-pocket screw the band to the veneer ply from underneath. This will confound someone in the future, as the band will not just "pop off." But it does work.
The spar varnish will protect the lumber band and veneer, too. Not a bad idea to varnish the cut edge where the sink goes, while you are at it, either.
What are you doing for a backsplash?
First of all dont use veneered plywood. Its not meant for wet areas. Maybe someone else has so far been lucky.
I have built a lot of bar tops and not one has ever failed. If you plan for moisture and wood movement from the beginning you will have no problems. Start with 4/4 quarter sawn hardwoods. Using quarter sawn will reduce movement significantly.
I run my boards through the shaper with a matched profile jointing router bit. If you dont have access to such a setup you can use a jointer and biscuits. Dry fit all of your pieces together making sure you dont need to stress the boards to get a tight fit and that the surface will be flat.
Glue up with a water resistant glue and leave clamped for a couple of days. Scrape off the glue residue from top and bottom. Level the top with a sharp jack plane(or larger plane if you have it).
Add on your face edge trim. preferably 4/4 again. Biscuit and glue. Do not use nails as they will eventually stain the wood.
If you need to edge trim the ends, Miter your end trim to your face trim. Only glue at the mitre. biscuit, screw and plug the rest to allow for movement. It is important to not over screw or over tighten the screws. Also no glue in the biscuits here. Next route your corner edge profile.
Sand, sand, sand. Seal, seal, seal. Make sink cut-out now so you can seal the end grains. Seal both top and bottom surfaces equally. If you put six coats of tongue oil on the top put as many on the bottom. That will reduce cupping. I use tongue oil on bars because of its alchohol resistance. I'm not sure what to use on a bathroom vanity top. Maybe teak oil. Break timers?
I attach my bar tops to a 3/4" plywood base sheet by drilling oversize holes in the plywood(1/2" Dia. for a 2' wide top) and using 1 1/4" panhead screws with fender washers. This allows for wood movement without binding up at the screws and also keeps the wood top as flat as the plywood.
Now fasten only the plywood base sheet to the cabinet. Good luck.
Ricky, there's no reason it won't work if you take proper precautions. After glue up and sanding or scraping ,finish both sides with Varathane . I did a wood vanity top for my daughter ten years ago. I consulted a wood finisher , he told me to use Varathane. The top still looks in pristine condition. Varathane is a sort of plastic finish, very thick out of the can. I suggest thinning it and put on four or five coats on top. At least two coats underneath. Follow directions on can, I don't recall the solvents or whether you sand slightly between coats. I did scrape and sand the first coat quite a bit because I did not thin it. The first coat came out wavy because it was so thick.If I recall you should sand between coats as it is a type of varnish.
mike
Thanks for replies Mav and Mike
Rick
Wood countertops are not all doom and gloom.
If you know what you're doing, that is...
Take a look here:
http://www.brookswood.com/wood_countertops.htm
Thanks Mongo, will take a look
I did a top out of oak strip flooring on a kitchen remodel about 20 years ago. Screwed 3/4 ply slightly undersized base to cabinets. Glued (elmer's yellow) a T&G panel up and screwed through elongated holes in the ply up into the oak. Then added some oak edging and put on 5 coats of polyurethane.
A few years ago they did an expansion on the kitchen. We could have ripped out the top and put in granite, they have the money, but they liked that strip look, so we did it again. We did use polyurethane glue this time.
I've got yellow pine counter tops in my own house, they're distressing quite nicely<G>
If you like it, do it. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Pay no attention to my tagline<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Thanks for input Buck
great idea for https://www.glumber.com/wood-countertops/wood-bathroom-countertops/