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Discussion Forum

wood edges on laminate countertops

| Posted in General Discussion on March 29, 2005 04:59am

I’m making the laminate countertop for our new home, and I need some help. I want to put a wood edge on the countertop, but I’m not sure which technique I should use to apply the wood edge. I’ve read some people who say that the edge should be applied simply with glue, some who say that it should be applied with biscuits.

Also, should I apply the wood edge first or the laminate first? (I would imagine the wood edge should come first.)

And are there substrates I could use that make for an interesting edge all on their own?

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Replies

  1. gregb | Mar 29, 2005 05:06am | #1

    Scott, we used to biscuit the edge on, but now use pocket screws on the underside (buildup) of the top.

    No matter which way we do it, the edge goes on first, with the laminate applied over it. We then route a decoratve edge on the nosing, usually a chamfer or ogee.

    Some of the laminate manufactures like wilsonart make different styles of nosings that you apply after the laminate. Nice thing about these is that they tend to hide that black edge of the laminate better.

    1. DaveRicheson | Mar 29, 2005 01:19pm | #4

      I use the WilsonArt system. It is called Perm-A-Edge, and give you a whole pallet of design options. For most skilled craftsmen the system has a short learning curve, if they have a normal compliment of toys, ah tools.

      Both the laminated and wood edge versions use a tongue and grove edge. You oder the edging from Wilso Art, and rout the grove in the edge of the slab after laminating it. Tolerances for the grove must be exacting to achieve the no seam look, but easily achieved with a little care. The beauty of this system with a wood edge is it is a glue and clamp only. The edge can then be routed to any profile without fear of nail placement, or unsightly fillers to hide them. WA also makes the wood edgeing in a couple of different outside corner radi to add another demension to your design options.

      Sorry if I sound like a WA salesman. There are a few other edgeing systems that are equal to WA, but I haven't used them yet. If done well the systems are a laminated top upgrade that are miles above post form tops, but well below the cost of solid surface.

       

      Dave

  2. Junkman001 | Mar 29, 2005 07:07am | #2

    Ditto . If we're just exposing a facet of the wood sometimes we'll attach with screws and bondo over.  Then cover with edge banding.

  3. nikkiwood | Mar 29, 2005 07:09am | #3

    I am responding to second the counsel from "gregb".

    I like to use biscuits, not so much for the strength, but because if you glue/nail, you have the nail holes to contend with. Takes a lot of clamps though.

    I hadn't thought of pocket screws, and if you have the jig/bit, I would try out this technique on a sample.

    Finally, once the wood edge is glued to the substrate, I take either a RO or belt sander to make sure the wood edge and the substrate are dead even.

    Alfter all that, I apply the laminate, and then machine the wood edge -- usually with a chamfer bit.

  4. User avater
    hammer1 | Mar 29, 2005 01:32pm | #5

    I used to build commercial counter tops as well as tables for restaurants that had wood edging. The top or table would be covered with the laminate and a 3/8" x 3/8" rabbet would be cut on the edge with a straight bit and fence guide on the router. The wood edge receives a groove that will fit the rabbet and come out flush with the laminate. If the wood edge is a bit proud of the laminate, we would use a card scraper with a little fence clamped on it. This was set to the thickness of the wood edging. The wood edge did not need any additional fasteners, just glue. The edge could be shaped afterwards.

    Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

    1. scarlson72 | Mar 29, 2005 06:50pm | #6

      Awesome! Thanks for all the help. I've got a few more questions:1.) About the base material, would you use MDF or plywood? This is a galley kitchen, with about a 9-foot counter. The counter I tore out was a postform installed in 1986, and over time it had sagged where the dishwasher was installed. I'm not sure if that was because the installation was faulty. In any case, I'm looking to avoid sag like that by picking a relatively stiff material. 2.) And to get a top that is more than 9 feet, do you think I should use a single board that is more than 9 feet long, cut to size? Or should glue (PLP?) or screw together various 4x8 sheets? To get that stiffness, I was thinking of doubling up a couple of boards anyway. 3.) I read Dwell Magazine from time to time, and in there I see laminate countertops that almost look as if the laminate has been laid over plywood, with the striped edge of the plywood left exposed. I kind of like that look for this kitchen. Is that what I'm seeing -- the edge of the plywood? Or am I seeing an edging that mimics that look? I wish I could find a picture for you....

      1. davidmeiland | Mar 29, 2005 07:46pm | #7

        A good shop birch/maple plywood will be stiffer than MDF, and I've always used shop ply for laminate counters and panels. You can get either material in 10 foot sheets if you have access to a decent sheet goods dealer. If not, you can add on a foot to an 8 footer, and make sure your build-up on the underside is strong enough to support the splice. I use 3/4 x 4" rips of ply around the perimeter of the top for the build-up, and glue and staple them on (medium crown 1-1/4 staples).

        I would not span more than about 36" with a typical laminate/ply countertop unless I could put a steel tube under it for stiffness. Maybe a little more if the entire counter was 2 layers of 3/4" shop.

        I've always applied the laminate first, then the nosing. There used to be a neat no-drip maple edge, a big heavy profile, but I don't think it's available these days. It takes plenty of clamps and some careful sanding/scraping to get the wood flush with the laminate, without hitting the laminate.

        If you want the edge of the plywood exposed, use Finn birch, Russian birch, or another panel that's 13-ply.

      2. woodguy99 | Mar 29, 2005 11:23pm | #9

        Scott, I've read articles that say the best substrate is lightweight MDF.  Supposedly the laminate, which is really several layers of Kraft paper with a resin binder and a decorative top, expands and contracts at about the same rate at particleboard or mdf.  Plywood doesn't expand and contract enough to accomodate the movement in the laminate.

        I'm with David on the other points though.  I like that look of a built-up edge of Baltic Birch and a dark laminate top.  Make sure you seal the plywood edge really well or it will get rough over time.

         

        Mike

      3. RoyS | Mar 30, 2005 12:22am | #10

        Scott- that edge as others alluded to is exposed plywood. Our local sheetgoods dealer- Tacoma Ply- said that they carry a brand "Apple" plywood that is supposed to be made for that. Supposively no voids in the ply so it doesn't show up in your edge, although I would take that promise with a grain of salt. Typically a doubled edge glued up at the edge. I like the look as well- a bit of a different approach. Good luck- R

        1. woodguy99 | Mar 30, 2005 12:40am | #11

          Apple ply is as you say nearly, but not completely, void-free.  It has a maple face veneer which makes a nice finished surface.  It is easier to get in standard 4x8 sheets.

          Baltic birch/Russian birch/Finnish birch is also nearly void-free, has a birch face veneer that tends to get a bit rough unless very well sealed, and is easiest to get in Euro sizes--30" x 30", or most commonly, 5' x 5' which is an awkward size to carry around.  Cheaper, in my experience, than Apple ply, per square foot.  Despite all the nice-looking extra plies, both types are prone to warping, though that wouldn't matter as a countertop edge.

          FWIW.

           

          Mike

          1. scarlson72 | Mar 30, 2005 01:45am | #12

            Mike (and others):Since that post on Russian/Finn/Baltic birch, I've been looking into it a bit. A local supplier said that I can get birch in a 10' sheet, but would you recommend that I glue together a few 4x8s? The 10' sheet is 3/4 inch. I realize that this is a standard thickness, but should I be trying for thicker? Maybe 1 1/2? Maybe I should glue together two 3/4s, then saw them to size?I just want a stiff top, and I like the look of a thick countertop. The folks at the sheet supplier warned me about sealing that edge. Any recommendations for sealers would be appreciated, too.This chat site is the best!

          2. woodguy99 | Mar 30, 2005 02:34am | #14

            Scott, I would use 3/4" lightweight mdf as the substrate, and laminate some strips of the plywood to make the edge look fat.  Probably 1 1/2" wide strips.  I would pocket screw them to the substrate, but biscuits, dowels or splines would work too.  I wouldn't bother with epoxy but it wouldn't hurt either.

            I'm jealous--that is what I wanted for my new desktop, but instead I cheaped out and got a solid core door instead. 

             

            Mike

    2. BruceM16 | Mar 29, 2005 09:19pm | #8

      Hammer

      Sounds interesting. How do you cut the routed grove into an inside corner using a fence guide?

      BruceM

      1. User avater
        hammer1 | Mar 30, 2005 02:56am | #15

        At the time we would miter even small returns. In the case of an inside corner you could either use a top guide straight edge or a rabetting bit. The little arch left in the corner would have to be nibbled out with a sharp chisel. I'd probably use two depth bearings with a rabetting bit rather than cut all at one setting. The edge of the counter has to be dead straight. I replace the circular base plates on my router with square edged ones when I use a straight edge as a guide. This eliminates any discrepancy with the round plates. I did my own counter this way, mitered corners, 25yrs. ago. Water gets in between the wood and after many years the substrate swells. That's one problem with wood edges and a good reason to run the laminate over the wood edge. After that many years of hard use the laminate is in need of replacing anyway. The wife wants granite and I'm crying poverty.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

  5. WorkshopJon | Mar 30, 2005 02:22am | #13

    Scott,

    Running through this post, I see no bad advice, BUT not the way I'd do it, but I'm not a pro so.....

    One thing to remember is "pro's" have developed shortcuts so they can make money and stay competitive.

    Then again, you did ask a very legitimate question so if it were me, I'd epoxy an oversize piece of wood on after laminating, then trim it, but it depends on what tools you have at your disposal.

    WSJ

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