I am working on an older home and there are wooden gutters around the house. The gutters are probably 75 to 100 years old and in good shape, however the back gutter comes off a relatively flat roof. There is just enough pitch for water to roll off, but snow does not and of course, in the winter, ice damns build up. Every once in awhile – bad snow storm followed by warming weather or really hard rain – water finds its way into the house. My guess is that it is coming in through the connection between the gutter and the house.
Any suggestions on how to approach this would be greatly appreciated. It is pretty difficult to work where the gutter and house connect since the space is minimal and the drip edge is in the way. The flat roof has a reflective tar coating – many coatings and the drip edge is embedded in the coating.
I included an image for reference as well. Thanks in advance for any help.
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It looks to me as though the gutter maybe too low from the roof edge, allowing water to drip back and rot the fasia. This would be compounded in the winter as water freezes and dams up in the gutter, pushing up under the drip edge. Wood gutters are rare and I wouldn't want to toss them if I didn't have to. Can they be removed for accessibility? The joints were usually tarred lead so with care you can pull them off to access the fasia. Once off you can work the fasia, is there a soffit overhang? Replace rotted wood(back primed), cap with aluminum if desired.
To eliminate snow melt infiltrating the home an ice and water shield maybe called for. What is the flat roof covered with? Can you cut and splice modern materials? Would it require a reroof? If so I'd recommend a tearoff to sheathing and redo. When rehanging the gutter insure that the edge of the roofing extends to a 1/2" shy of the center of the gutter on the plumb. Use "F" metal along the eave plus an overhang as needed.
How is the gutter wrapped around this roof? Is it a simple straight run or is it tyed into another run with a miter (inside or ouside)? Is it prone to clogging from surrounding flora? Often a good cleaning after the autumn leaf-fall prevents winter problems.
An ice dam will cause water to weep uphill underneath shingles and wick down along nails, no matter what kind of gutters you have. Even with no gutters. The dam of ice creates a sort of 'pond' behind it, and shingled roofs are made to shed water, not to hold it like a basin. Especially in your case with a very flat roof, it would be surprising if you didn't get some leakage under the conditions you describe.
There are several remedies, the simplest of which is to shovel off the roof and chop out the ice dams when they form. However, this is labour intensive, a PITA, and can be dangerous depending on the configuration of your roof.
Second on the list is to install a heating cable on the eaves which is thermostat-activated when the air temp rises above a certain point, usually somewhere around -9C. The cable is installed in a V pattern along the eaves, covering the entire eave and going a bit up past the building wall onto the 'hot' part of the roof. What it does is melt a series of channels in the ice dam to allow accumulated water trapped behind it to run off over the eaves.
The best way to deal with this involves a tear-off and re-roof using a self-healing, pressure-sensitive ice-and-snow membrane under the shingles. For a flatish roof, I would recommend using the best material you can buy and covering the entire roof with the membrane. If the roof is 4 in 12 or over, you should be okay with a standard eave-guard membrane doing just the eaves and extending one or two feet up onto the part of the roof over the heated living space.
The stuff is simple to apply if you get the type with a split backing paper on it. Bakkor is one brand I use frequently and it works well. Blueskin is one of the top grades, and is priced accordingly.
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I believe ice damming is going behind the drip edge. Is there some space between the fascia and drip edge? Any copper gutters guys in you neck of the woods? I would try to locate someone and bend custom piece/pieces of copper or use some lead and form to the shape.
Meyers,
I had a summer home in coastal New England and a great carpenter/friend to take care of it. We had wood gutters. When they were installed there was a small cedar block (about 2"x2"x1/2" thick) between the gutter and the facia wherever a spike was driven through the facia into the joist end. I got the idea that any overflow would go between the gutter and facia. Had a couple of shed roofs but no flat ones. Didn't get any ice damming but the house didn't get much winter use and there wasn't a lot of snow either, but just a suggestion.
Don
Hey, you are right their suppose have 3/4 spacer between the fascia and gutter. I have not seen proper install wood gutter but one!Frank Lloyd Wright:
My parents' Cape Cod has wood gutters, and my dad solved the problem by installing spacers under the nails, also. Hasn't had that type of problem since he did it on all gutters, 30+ years ago. New gutters of the same profile as his were still available the last time he re-roofed a few years ago.Be seeing you...
I really doubnt that ice damming is causing a problem at the gutter itself. Even if the ice is damned up in the gutter, the leak should appear immediatly behind the gutter instead of rfinding its way back into the house.
I can't see from the photo what condition the roof is in, but given the info that it ihas been neccessary to recoat it numberous times, I lack much faith in it.
but if the problem is at the gutter -
and since gutters do tend to need occasional maint -
I restore many of these with epoxy. you need a wire brush to fit on you drill or a grinder to get in theere and claen all the surface wood fibre that is discolored and weak. Then a boat yard will have a selection of epoxies meant for similar wood rot that you can use. Work it all the way up on the superior piece over the gutter, using re-inforcing fabric if necessary
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Thanks for the great information. You have all given me something to think about. I plan to post a bit more information as well as attach more photos. Thanks again to each of you.