So after the holidays I should be up to the roof of the garage area first…..(I hope). 32×32.
I’d love to skip sheath it but that means I need to immediatly wood shingle it and its not the best time of year for that and I have soo much to do for just me and a helper.
Been watching a whole lot of builders around here just bangin’ wood on tar papered roofs with no cedar breather.
Looked on the Bureu of cedar or whatever its called and apparently they have treated shingles for that but doubt thats what any of these guys are using and I dont like that idea anyway….
Then theres Cedar Breather…..not sure that that stuff works all that well either.I’ve used it before and theres such a little amount of air that gets under the shingles I feel skeptical.
Skip sheath and tarps till spring or nice days? ugh….so much to do and so little time for it all at once.
seems I always get the worst weather to work in and always outside in the winter due to town hall permit holdups no matter when I apply.my karma I reckon…..not complaining…just venting as my roof will need to…lol
So what would you do?
BE warm
andy
My life is my practice!
Replies
Normally, I'd fight through the weather when possible and just get it done, but with the way storms have been chasing each other and competing for attention, and that you are short-handed, I would sheathe and tarp.
Excellence is its own reward!
Andy, I have some Roofguard II ordered. Sounds like it might do for your project too if it's as tough as they say. It's cheaper than a tarp.
Joe H
Joe I have mega tarps left form my previous house so.....
I know I should sheathe but feel its immoral.....lol
BE warm
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
i think i'd use RTGII and Cedar Breather.. make sure you have good copper flashings and your flashing details allow for air to move in from the eaves and rakes.. and exit at the ridge..
since you only put cedar breather on in 3' rolls you can shingle what you can cover in a day.. and you can use ice & water to strip in the tops at the end of the day...
in the meantime , the RTGII will keep your building dry for the whole winterMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That sounds like a good idea, Mike. Why didn't I ask this question when I was redoing my own roof?? ;)Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
i'll see if i can dig up some pics of a 1670 gambrel roof we did with thick butt RC over cedar breatherMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Andy,
I hate Cedar-breather. I have used several times, and yet I hate it. I always strongly urge my clients to go the lath route. You could sheath now and then lath over in the spring. You can close up the rake to keep things dry either way. I have joined the ice dam crowd for the first 3 feet, but then not a lick of paper. EVER! I never allow copper with cedar, period. The cedar on lath will breath all by itself without need for vents. Do you know about taper sawn instead of Royals?
Karl
Restoring the past for the future.
curly... natcherly .. u got a reason u don't like copper with cedar...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Isn't there some sort of chemical reaction between copper and cedar? Or was that some other metal?If I were kind and adoring, how would that be?...very boring ?
Mike,
I don't like to look in the gutter and see the shine left from the cedar oils. As I am sure you know, cedar corrodes copper. I would rather not take the chance that the roof may last longer than expected and eat the copper through. I have taken apart to many houses where the copper failed and the roof framing was damaged severly because the copper flashing had failed. I have seen many copper gutters eaten through from the cedar as well.
If you must use cedar then I would suggest lead coated copper.
KarlHand Hewn Restorations Inc.
Restoring the past for the future.
curly... i don't have much problem with 16 oz. copper for drip edge..
in the valleys i'd be looking for lead coat.. but drip edge and step flash.... i like copper..
another thing about copper.. it will leach ( read "corrode" ) and the solution that drips down the cedar is a superior fungicide... superior to zinc..
so yes, i agree... in high erosion areas... be careful with copper...
now as to taper sawn... that's all we use on our roofs.. another name for taper sawn is "thick butt" because one of the great things about taper sawn is the butt is 5/8 thick instead of the normal 1/2"
you can also get Royals in taper sawn ( thick butt ).. so you could change your exposure from 5.5 to 7.5..
but... my normal spec will be taper sawn @ 5.5 " with copper flashings over cedar breather over RTGII with ice and water at the eaves...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
regional variations. Here in SE PA we shoot for 7.5" exposure.
KarlHand Hewn Restorations Inc.
Restoring the past for the future.
ooooh... oooh.... another thing with 5.5 " exposure.... we always buy a bunch of FJ primed pine 1x6 (5.5" ) after we get our 1st course on we use the 1x6 as our coursing board... perfect ... and great straight lines without a snap every course....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Curly
So no felt? Just lath over the ply? I like that idea. A whole lot cheaper too.
You think the felt does damage to the shingles? If I go your route It'd be nice to paper the ply till spring. And why no copper? Reactions? What do you use? Aluminum?
Be well
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I've used the solid sheathing/felt/lath method with good success, especially in situations such as yours. I'd go with the RTGII if I were starting one today. I'm not a big fan of Cedar Breather either. The run off from the cedar is slightly corrosive to copper, but it should last the life of the roof. Lead coated copper would be the best choice or use 20 oz. rather than 16 oz. copper if you want the copper look.
green
whats RTGII....Is that the stuff instead of felt paper?My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
yup - rooftopguardII
Andy,
Felt in the roof sheathing for now. Apply 1x3 or 1x4 lath strips to the roof sheathing. Use ice dam for the first three feet (assuming your overhang is not huge). You apply the first of the double starter course of shingles, then the ice dam, then continue up the roof. I never ever ever use felt paper between the courses of shingles. Doing so will trap water between the shingles and dramatically reduce the life of the shingles.
I also overlap the top courses at the ridge. In other words I weave the courses from one side to the other, We call it a turkey tail here. No need for paper or flashing at the ridge then.
Oh and one more thing, butt your shingles together when you apply them. Don't leave the gap that the label tells you to leave. The shingles can't and don't expand that much.
Do you know about taper sawn shingles?
Karl
Hand Hewn Restorations Inc.
Restoring the past for the future.
I've heard about taper sawn shingles but don't know much about them
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
For some reason I have it in mind that you were going to be using Cedar shakes on this roof. Then I see everybody here talking shingles instead so I went to re-read and see where it got off track. I see that you used the shingle word so I guess it was my mistake and my memory is wrong, or you misspoke - which is it buddy? I know the old was shakes so maybe that is where I got it from, but the advice can vary for one material over another.
Excellence is its own reward!
cedar shingles...perfections
I guess I dont call them shakes because to me shakes refer to the heavy stuff like barn splits.My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I had shakes on my mind too Piffin - then began to wonder why the exposure was so small. My first question would be what kind of pitch are you dealing w/ on this 32' X 32' ( ? ) garage? Glad you're sticking w/ wood
pitch is approx 7/12.
I like the wood sheath idea now and "lath" for the shingle/shakes in the spring.My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Mr Andy I know from the little time I've been on this board you're talkin w/ some boys who know their cedar & roofs. What I'm seeing here is the perfect scenario for age olde cedar shingle application - solid sheathing the length of the shingle ( maybe 4 1X4s ) then step or space it up the rest of the way. you have the tarps and you've provided the safest ladder around to hike up to the ridge and unroll that tarp for cover till the next time you shingle. If you are looking to heat this space and have dormers etc then you should be looking at other options but if cold hearted garage there ain't no better way for shingles to be installed / and you get to look up to one of the most beautiful ceilings one can muster in modern bldg
if you'll excuse me I'll note a few more things as previously stated apply edge to edge - they don't get any greener than out of the bundle
depending on surrounding architectural influences I sometimes use 2X4 material for sheathing w/ rafters on 28 - 30" centers - can have a nice look coming proud over your barge boards ups breathing quotient too
again dependant on surroundings but for ridge most of the time I go w/ resawn shakes bigger bolder material than the shingle and crowns it off nicely
if it has been a while or you have not shingled ( can't help but think you have cuz I remember beautiful windows and many shingles on your web site eh? ) biggest reminder I can give is tack some material the width of your chosen reveal / overlap on your rake / barge boards so you get that straight line up to the ridge!
Andy I'm following along a bit w/ your building renovation as I'm undertaking a similar project at my own abode the cobblers kids are getting their shoes after dad doing everyone else's home carry on John
John
Very good advice. Thanks. I appreciate it!
Good point about the skip sheathing being a ladder...cept that you start at the bottom so....at least theres something to grab if anyone starts to slip...lol
Good point about how it looks from the inside except I may need to rock/plaster the interior cause I want the shop area up there warm in the winter, but it "is" still something for me to consider. The shingles alone may be enough insul. I'll just wait and see when it gets cold again next winter.
After new years I'll post some pix of what I'm up to.
Been doing some interior work here and at a customers house the past cpl of weeks so its slowed down outside.
I've got a huge lumber delivary coming this Friday to be boomed to the second floor so after NewYears we should be back poundin' nails again
Hope the weather cooperates....gets kinda cold and slippery up there.
Thanks again and
Be well
andy
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I just had to say...
Tomorrow!!! Tomorrow we'll finally be done with an 82 square tear-off and reroof!
The tear-off? 82 square of partially rotten cedar shakes about 25 years old.
Why were they rotten? Apparently someone forgot to let the installer know that shakes should be installed over nailers or on skip sheathing! At least they managed to place enough staples in each shake to hold them together!
I know it's off-topic, but I just had say we empathize with you! We're on a 12/12 pitch on top of a hill - today the snow was hitting so hard we could barely see!
Good luck on your cedar roof! And yep... we've been rolling the tarps up and down every day :)
pet
Be safe!
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Must be why you are up on the roof. PET MONKEY Get it? huh? huh?
Karl <g>Hand Hewn Restorations Inc.
Restoring the past for the future.