Quick question. I’ve done a few roofs before. All of them architectural shingles (have never done a whole roof with three-tabs). My old boss stopped by last night and wants me to help him on a wood shingle roof. I’m all for it, I’ve never done wood shingles either.
My question is, is my button-cap stapler OK to use on the underlayment below the shingles? We are shingling on OSB, and weaving in felt between each coarse. I’m not sure how big the roof is yet, or what type of shingles we will be using. Just bought a stapler and am itching to use it.
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I would worry less about the cap stapler and more about your approach to the shingling. What your are proposing is not how it should be done. Wood shingles need to breath and nailing tight to OSB is a recipe for failure.
There is alot written about wood shingle roofing. Do a search and read up.
Bruce
Whoa, slow down fellas. Let me clarify: I haven't seen the job yet. I believe that I was told the sheathing was OSB, but it could be skip. The original covering is cedar shingles, but I couldn't tell you which kind.
I thought you could install cedar over OSB decking, as long as you weave in felt between coarses? I read somewhere that it could be done.
Also, I am just hired guns on this project. Whichever installation practices are used on this job are between the customer and my boss. He has told me very little about how we are going about it. I'm just planning ahead a little because I've never done cedar before and I'm a wee bit excited about it (no snickering, please).
Thanks for the advice.
Edited 5/2/2009 2:49 pm ET by excaliber32
Edited 5/2/2009 2:56 pm ET by excaliber32
I think all of us saw a train wreck coming and want to prevent it before it happens. As you indicated, you have never done wood shingles before and the process you described was incorrect.
I believe every craftsman has an obligation to understand the project they are about to embark on. There is lots of literature on install wood shingle and you can learn a bunch about it.
I personally love wood shingle roofs, very few done here in Texas though.
Bruce
Its not the thread I'm worried about, its the job. I must confess, I know there is a difference between shakes and shingles, but I cant remember what it is. One is sawn and one is split? This roof will definately be a learning experiance for me.
Shakes can have sawn backs, or split backs. Shingles are sawn both sides. The majority of shakes are sawn backs.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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So why felt between coarses for one, but not the other?
Due to the irregular faces, they can and will often get wind driven precipitation up under the shakes, and the layer of felt between courses helps prevent that from seeping into the structure.
Shingles lay tighter, and the issue is reduced greatly.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Much appreciated, that clears up a few more questions I had!
CU shows how to lay the felt with shakes.They are typically 24" long laid with 10" to th e weather.Shingles are more often 16" long and laid 5" exposed. you end up with a triple ply of shingles plus headlap but only a double ply of shakes. The irregularities of the shakes can mean a 3/8" gap or so between them for water to be driven in. Shingles are much smoother, often sanded and re-squared, lay with only about 1/8" between them, just to account for swelling when wet.
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What Hiker said. The felt between courses is done with shakes as a snow baffle, but not with shingles.
OTOH, anything that holds the underlayment on until you get it covered is OK. But I would not install any cedar roof directly on solid sheathing. Split sheathing, furring strips, cedar breather would be my choices in that order.
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What Hiker said. You need Cedar Breather if going over solid sheathing. And you don't need to weave felt with cedar SHINGLES, but it is often done with cedar SHAKES.
If you don't know the difference, best study up on exposure and grades.
As to your query on the cap stapler, yes, for the underlayment (felt or synthetic) AND the cedar breather. Some Syn. underlayments ask for nailed caps, but I've not had an issue with stapled caps, unless exsposed for a long, long time. They degrade from UV faster than the nailed type. If you are rocking along, it should not be an issue.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"
Jed Clampitt
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I'm on dial up, the sat died.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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If this guy is from out west, it can go on solid with no problem because of the drier climate. Seen 'm 30-40 YO out there.
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It sounds to me like its shakes not shingles as shakes are normally put on with 30lb felt . I never "weaved"wood shingles with felt.
I'd say 3/4ths of the threads here about cedar roofs start out with that mistake - not knowing the difference between shakes and shingles, or the fact that they each have different install procedure.
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I've got a builder I've worked for for 30+ years ( He used to buy woodstoves from me when I was in that business) that has always called them "shake shingles" if they're a roofing product made from cedar. "Which are they, Mac - shakes or shingles"?http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Speaking of...
Got an ETA on Midway?
( jeep deal fizzled)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Materials are in - They decided to add decorative barge boards. Waiting on that. I've got lots of stuff 'til then if you want it.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Great, the damm rain has to leave sooner or later.
I'm open after tomorrow.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Sometimes when people call me and say they have Shakes or Shingles i just ask if there big ones or little ones;]
Your cap nailer is fine, but you don't weave felt with wood shingles, only with wood shakes.
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let me add that stainless is the correct nail/staple to use with cedar. Galavanized will often be damaged knocking off some of the protection that galavnized nails offer and then the tannins in cedar will attack the nail causing premature failure.
Not so true anymore. The Bostitch coated nails are OK for PT, so they will outlast the cedar. I won't ever use staples, so that is moot. And if I was to , monel is better than stainless.
back when cedar was better, I'da mighta agreed on the stainless nails, and even began a job 5 yrs ago using them, the heads were rusting overnight , MAX nails, yes they were stainless, but not so much. The Hitachi and Bostitch nails, non stainless, are better.
I'll be doing a cedar roof myself shortly, and can show the nails at that time.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Sphere, it depends on where the shingles, shakes came from.. The ones on my house must be old growth because the the grain is so tight and close together. Honestly you need to use a magnafing glass.
I've used hot galvies for cedars all my life and never seen them fail before the cedars are worn out, not any staining from them
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I believe you've been lucky with your nails or maybe it's that you have a better nailing technique etc.. I can drive around and show you several houses with cedar roofs that have stains and obvious signs of pending failure.. none are more than a decade old.. I'm sure they used galvanized nails since I remember calling on the builders..
I suppose it's a little more than a decade I first noticed some galvanized nails source in China and maybe they are the culprits.. That's Why I spent the extra for stainless steel.
Likely electroplate galvies, not hot dipped.Stainless nails were not generally available when I started roofing, and I know cedars have been in use for a lot longer than I have been around. Some of the first roofs I ever tore off had cedars 30-50 years old.
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Be sure to be paid by the hour. If you've never doen a wood shingle job, you're in for a suprise on how long it takes.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv