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Wooden Decking over Cement Patio

| Posted in Construction Techniques on May 27, 2003 07:39am

We are attempting to install wooden decking planks over an existing cement patio, which is about 40 years old.   In a past project we have successfuly used a nail gun to drive the nail through the plank into the cement.  However, in this instance the community licensing authority refuses to approve this method.  What is the industry standard on this?  The existing patio is approx. 18 inches off the ground, and cement footers have been properly placed to support the decking which will extend 1 foot beyond the existing patio.  Thanks for any help you can provide!  –  Leslie

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  1. ahneedhelp | May 27, 2003 09:13pm | #1

    Geez, you have to get approval from a "community licensing authority" for something like this ?

    Can you set sleepers onto the concrete using anchors and then attach the planks to them with screws ?

    This would raise the planks off the concrete and off the water during rainy days.

  2. fredsmart48 | May 27, 2003 10:05pm | #2

    Ask the community licensing authority any thing some one tells you here is just going to be guess work what licensing authority will except.  It does not matter what is the standard is it is what they will except.

  3. andybuildz | May 27, 2003 10:58pm | #3

    Leslie

          Doesnt seem like a biggie to me. USe PT 2x4's as your joists and nail your planking to that>

    Personally I've "never" seen decking planks nailed directly to concrete. Seems like a horrible way to do a deck considering debris and bugs.

    I'd absolutly never do it that way. Might be interesting to find out what their reason for this code is. Just might make some sense.

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  4. Edgar76b | May 28, 2003 02:24am | #4

     Not really sure I under stand the question completely. But ask them Who they would want to do the job. just kidding. i'd be wooried about saftey and the nail gun. unless your using a hilti.

    If your using sleepers and the concrete is good, what can be the issue except anchoring. Maybe you could run a few holes and set some 1/2" mollies in the slab to anchor it better and shoot the rest. Maybe there is an issue with wind . Can't tell you. Maybe the concrete is old. I'm not much of a concrete guy.

    It sounds like they are turning you down point blank. Did they come out to look at the slab?

    Where are you? I'm going to check my Architectural standards book see what they show.

    Where there's A wheel there's a way, got any wheels?



    Edited 5/27/2003 7:27:26 PM ET by MuleSkinner

    1. BobDaBuilder | May 28, 2003 03:58am | #6

      Last year I did a similar job. I simply fastened sleepers (on 16" centers) to the concrete with tapcons. I ripped 2x's for the sleepers of various thicknesses to level out the slight slope of the patio. Finally put decking down on top, just like a typical deck. Worked great for me, was just back there to price out more decks for the customer over the weekend.

  5. User avater
    Dinosaur | May 28, 2003 03:27am | #5

    I don't know of any nail gun except the old Senco SN-IV that's got enough punch to really whonk into a 40-year-old cement slab. Even my new Paslode doesn't like that. And it's hard on the gun if you do a lot of it.

    I'd use Ramsets or Remingtons. Lay 2x3 (minimum) sleepers on the flat onto your slab, 16" or 24" centers depending on the thickness of the deck boards you're going to top them with, and pin them to the concrete every 24". Then just lay your decking and either nail or screw it to the sleepers as if they were floor joists.

    I wouldn't use PT (pressure-treated) lumber for the sleepers (or anything; that stuff is POISON!), but it's important to protect the sleepers from rot. And old, tried-and-true product works well: Creosote. It's made of coal-tar oil, and if you grew up anywhere a railroad line, you'll remember the smell from when you were a kid because that's what they use to preserve railroad ties. I happen to like the smell; if you don't, don't worry--it fades in a couple of weeks unless you've soaked the wood for a month or so. Roll on a couple of coats with a thin-nap paint roller; clean up the roller and tools with kerosene or turps.

    Dinosaur
  6. Ronbaby | May 28, 2003 06:35am | #7

    bobs post is exactly what I was going to post as I was reading all of the previous posters. Tapcon sleepers down. I wouldn't feel comfortable nailing or using a Hilti on them. All the walking and bouncing they are going to receive would loosen the nails up over time IMO. Nail on planking over the sleepers. Will tapcons rust over time outside? Haven't a clue. Does anyone else know?

    1. BobDaBuilder | May 28, 2003 02:04pm | #8

      I don't know if they will never rust, but I believe that they are better than galvanized decking screws just because of their intended use.

    2. User avater
      Dinosaur | May 28, 2003 05:00pm | #9

      You raise a good point about the pins loosening over time. I'd think they'd probably be okay in this case, because the concrete is 40 years old and probably has a much higher cement content and finer aggregate than what we use today.

      But Hilti makes expansion anchors, which would probably be the ultimate answer. Put 3 anchors into each 8' of sleeper and call it a done deal. It'll never move again, plus, if you need to replace a sleeper for rot or whatever, you just unbolt it, and drop a new one in place. You could use cedar shims to level the sleepers instead of having to rip 2x to size. Lots faster, and cedar doesn't rot.

       TapCons won't rust, I don't think--but they break fairly easily because they're hardened and brittle as heck. I've got one customer that called me ever spring like clockwork to haul his sun-deck back out of the lake. He'd had the thing built as an inset into the vertical sides of an old concrete boat slip, and the builder had Tapconn-ed 2x8s to the concrete to hold the whole thing up. Each winter, the ice got ahold of it, pushed up on the frame until the Tapcons broke, and then dropped it into the drink. First time I fixed it, I used lead anchors and 5/16" lag screws. Two of them busted the following winter. I went back and put in 3/8" lags. One of those busted the next year. Then I put in 1/2" Hilti expansion anchors. Now the wood fractures, but the anchors hold.

      You can't beat ice. Fixed-docks are the only work I refuse to guarantee against Mother-nature induced damage.

      The dock in this shot is not the one I'm talking about, but I don't have a shot of that one. Senco bought this shot for their dealer newsletter because it showed how tough their gun was. Yes, I use it underwater. It works. But keep your face away from the exhaust vent next time you fire it, or you'll get a 120psi shower.

      Dinosaur

      1. User avater
        Qtrmeg | May 29, 2003 12:55am | #10

        Ha, I knew it, those old Sencos are boat anchors.

        1. User avater
          Dinosaur | May 29, 2003 03:56am | #11

          The one in the picture is my old SN III, and, if pure weight were the only operative quality for an anchor, I have to admit it'd probably work.

          But I've had that gun for a while and I like it. It's got more punch than my Paslode, and it's tough as nails, if you'll pardon the pun. Plus, it didn't cost me much--my brother in law in Ohio traded it to me for a copy of the Canadian Building Code so he could brag to customers that his houses were really built.

          Dinosaur

          'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

          1. User avater
            Qtrmeg | May 29, 2003 05:04am | #12

            I think my anchor is the IV, I went to the Senco site to check and I think I am out of tech support, lol.

            I could get a big boat, I have their old finish nailer too. I have to hand it to them, they used to know how to make some great tools.

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