I apologize in advance for any fits of laughter over this question, however, I still will ask it. Has anyone ever made their own wooden gutters. I own an old cape and was thinking of making my own gutters out of 3/4 pine then lining the inside with fiberglass. they would be glued/screwed together with lap joints. Back would be 90 degrees to bottom and front slightly angled forward/out.
Any merit to doing something like this. I have never liked the look of vinyl or aluminum. Thanks for any help or suggestions.
Kieran
Replies
May I suggest copper?
Expensive, yes. But not as expensive as replacing those wooden gutters and all the damage wrought by them.
IMESHO of course.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
That is exactly what I have been trying to convince my wife of!!
It's been discussed here a time or two, and consensus seems to be that it should work but nobody's tried it. Go for it! Homemade wooden gutters like that was how it used to be done by country folk.
You could just use PCV trim like Azek, and you wouldn't need to line it.
Azek gutters...interesting idea. I'm not sure the stuff is strong enough, but it's certainly priced right...around here, it's about the same price as wood...comes in 18-foot lengths, too, so it'd be good in that regard.
bI do wonder about its durability, however, what with being exposed to the sun all the time. You'd still have to paint Azek gutters, I'd think, for the UV shielding if nothing else.
Jason
We use it all the time for exterior trim, with paint, but supposedly it doesn't need to be painted.
Some brands, Koma I think, have pre-made corners that you could use to save having to glue them up yourself.
There is very little structural integrity, so you would need support blocks every 2' at the most.
You can also buy Azek gutters already milled in the traditional "K" profile.
Azek claims that no paint is needed. Do you have evidence that UV ruins it?I do paint it for appearance normally, but fasteners would be hidden in their milled gutter, so I might not paint it.
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There is actually an Azek ( or at least another brand of cellular PVC) milled to look just like the traditional wood gutters. That will probably be the way to go the next time I need it.
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There is actually an Azek ( or at least another brand of cellular PVC) milled to look just like the traditional wood gutters
I know, I've tried to sell a couple of clients on it. One decided on copper, and one on no gutters. I'll keep trying.
I haven't heard of any requirements to paint PVC trim, but vinyl siding gets brittle over the years, I wonder if PVC trim will do the same....
That would be not good for a gutter, especially given that the PVC is thermally active, growing and shrinking with temperatures. I might have to devise some sort of slotted hanging system for installing it to let it slide as it grows. Most wooden gutter needs a small fascia run for top of gutter to just under the drip edge at shingles, so that joint could be made dadoed like a shiplap and all fasteners in that piece. The wood gutters have a bevel on that edge that we need to meet now, but I am not sure what the detail is on the azek one
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If you have the garage space you could build it like they do wooden boats, just build your own form. It would look cool too. I bet you could do them in 8 foot lengths.-worth exactly 2 cents!
I have never liked the look of vinyl or aluminum.
Just out of curiosity, what do you want your gutters to look like? Are you going to mill a profile on the visible face?
I've built wooden gutters on two homes and it worked well. I made a box out of yellow pine with a bottom flush to bottom of the rafter tails and another bottom up inside the box to give pitch as needed to my rafter runs. I lined it with MuleHyde EPDM rubber roofing running up under the roofing shingles and stapled to the top of the box. I then bent up some little copper trim channel to cover the top of the gutter board nailed with copper roofing nails and went around with a razor blade and trimmed the rubber flush with the bottom of the copper on the outside of the box. For outlets I drilled two 2.5" holes about 18" apart with a hole saw and connected them to make a big "lozenge shaped" hole. I lined the hole with copper, seamed top and bottom, (a three inch by four foot strip folded back a half inch on itself up and down to make a two inch strip) then seamed that down to the gutter lining with a boot made of uncured EPDM seaming tape. This was the hardest part, getting the boot to not stick to itself as it went in, and then gooping it all up inside the gutter with lap sealer caulk made by MuleHyde for this purpose. Finally I hung gutter chains out of the outlets down to Lingum posts (phallic stone pillars set in a pebble bed in a buried trash can with a 4" drain to daylight, need to remember when working with gutter chains that they need to kiss the ground because when ice builds up on them it starts freezing at the bottom and gets heavy fast, if it freezes the chain to the ground the ground will support the weight of the ice and it will build up the chain like a stalagmite.) The lingum stones made great outdoor pissin locations and whenever a half empty bottle of wine went stale we would go out and "anoint the lingum." Alas, I lost that house in the divorce. I still have it on my website though! ("three waters house") and the new owners invite me over for garden parties from time to time. (And I like my new house and new wife way more than enough to compensate for a couple years of hell getting from there to here.)
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
That EPDM would handle the flexing OK!
Did you use 5/4" SYP? That would be about twice as strong as our 3/4 white pine up here.
high quality SYP is not easy to find up here. I bought $3000 worth of it several years ago to have on hand because of that
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Yes I did use 5/4 for the face and 3/4 c and better for the dbl bottom and the sub fascia. We have a local mill here in NC that supplies us with truck loads of clear SYP at an amazing price. Loverly stuff, I'm doing all my porch ceilings and many interior ceilings, bedroom floors, and most of our trim in it a few years ago somebody set up a mill in South Carolina making SYP veneer four panel doors. They must have not figured out the warping problem or maybe there just wasn't the market for them because I haven't been geting them recently. ------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
I was just figuring a bit in my head and what I paid for quality SYP 5/4 would cost me more in materials to build my own gutter than buying it already milled from fir!
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Thanks for all the replies. Gives me a lot of food for thought over the weekend. Wife did not like the look of the mock-up I did so far. Maybe I can still sell her on the copper or goo with the premilled wooden gutter.
Kieran
Take a look at galvanized half round gutters. We get them in the bigger size 5" with 3" round down spouts and "circle and Shank" hangers that screw into the fascia and support the gutters from below at about 32" OC max. Much tougher and classier looking than aluminum but much much cheaper than copper. I've always wanted to paint them green so they look like Bamboo but my clients like the silvery galvanized color.M------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
Kieran,
Where in the Great State of Maine are you.
I can send a Shutterfly album if you e-mail me your address showing an install of Boston pattern gutter and lined with copper for extra longevity.
Walter
A peek at a couple wood pre-milled attachedWhat sort of house? New or redo?Did I misunderstand or did you say earlier that she is the one who wants wood gutters?
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Piffin,
The addition of the gutters is part of a project where I am replacing corner boards, fascia boards and bed/crown mouldings. It is a 200+ year old cape that has not had a gutter on the "dooryard" side of the house since I have lived here (14 years).
Last year I "fixed" a cement window well by replacing the window and redid the cement work. Unfortunately the water that used to leak through the old broken cement, now pools in the window well and flows through the basement window. This has necessitated placing a temporary sump pump that I intermittently turn off/on during rainstorms. Needless to say, my wife has not been impressed with this house repair.
My wife doesn't't want to spend money on copper gutters (hopes to move to house with land in three years when youngest is out of high school) so I am looking at other fixes.
Kieran,
Yes the wooden gutter would be most appropriate for your aged home.
Shutterfly album coming along later today.
Walter
Those pics look kinda familiar.http://grantlogan.net/
That's right!
Those were new on an old house, but they were the best close photos I have of wood gutters. You'll recognize this house too, but the gutters don't really show, except to underline the point you made about how they are an integral part of the whole cornice trim work. I spent a couple weeks working around this one. The back side was about 28' up from the ground.
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I just returned from a week on Nantucket where it's town ordinance to use wooden gutters. I was all excited to post a pic of one and start and thread and then I see this thread was at the top of the list! Your pic is better than the one I took so we'll leave it at that.
90% of the buildings on Nantucket has this style wooden gutter. The rest either had no gutters or a home-grown version (perhaps hiding something inside). The owner of the Inn I stayed at used to own a roofing company in PA and he said he applied linseed oil to the inside of his wood gutters. In addition to the actual gutters, many houses boxed in the galvinized drain with 1x4 or 1x6. That was a nice touch.
I have made wooden gutters but only straight 16'ers, no corners or other complications. I made a V shaped gutter out of 6" cedar decking, finished the outside with Siccuns (sp?) and the inside with three layers of Deckcoat (sp?). I left one end open, so that it drains on a pile of beach rocks. A bit West Coasty for some houses I imagine.
Did the exact same as you 35 years ago, and they still look great, creosote the inside every once in a while, open both ends, I think they're supported about every 3 or 4 feet, and snow and ice (Ont, Canada) .. no problem ..
ALL:
Maybe I'm missing something here, but why would someone want to use wood gutters?
I'm not slamming the idea, I'm just curious. What are the benefits of wood gutters over aluminum ones?
>>>>>>>but why would someone want to use wood gutters? What are the benefits of wood gutters over aluminum ones?Wood gutters are an historic architectural feature that aluminum gutters attempt to copy. Take a look at Piffin's pics and see how the wood gutters appear to be an actual part of the cornice system rather than a tacked on rain gathering system.
http://grantlogan.net/
Seeyou answered it pretty well. I hate gutters to start with, but if you gotta have them, they ought look nice and be made to last. I have restored wood gutters on four or five houses here that are a good hundred years old. Had they been maintained, they would not have needed near as much work. The traditional was to clean and coat with linseed oil every year and check the joints and drops. But most people in this day and age will not do that even if you point it out, even the caretakers getting paid top do it! I installed a new wood gutter on a house and went over the maintainance schedule with the caretaker. Three years later, I went back for some other reason and looked up to see a couple of two year old trees growing in the gutter!Somebody like that needs a cheap AL gutter they can take to the dump every few years.But I have seen others that have been maintained and are 110 years old and only need a little lead and caulk here and there.Typically when I install new ones, when it is delivered, I oil the inside and prime the outside two coats each, then install. But given how much I see sorry caretaking, I have been thinking of using a resin epoxy coat for the interior first to seal the wood.
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I can definitely relate to the fact that people think the gutters look better when integrated into the cornice (as opposed to just hanging off a fascia, for example). But a lot of that has to do with the architectural style of the house. A Craftsman house, for example, is not going to have a fancy cornice -- just exposed rafters and beadboard. When it was fitted with wood gutters back in the 1910s, the gutters were just nailed to the rafter tails in the same spot an aluminum gutter would go today (with the likely addition of a fascia, too, of course).
Around where I live, it seems builders transitioned from wood gutters to metal gutters in the early 1930s. Most older houses I see have either their old "tin" (I guess maybe it's painted steel) gutters, or replacement aluminum (or even plastic) ones. In any event, it seems to me that even neglected metal gutters typically last at least 30 or 40 years.
Do you really think that a wood gutter system will outlast an aluminum gutter system if both are properly maintained? Maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but that's what I'm hearing right now.
Lastly, I don't really know what to call the gutter pictured by Slateman. Technically, the gutter itself is wood. But it is completely lined with copper. So is it wood, or is it metal? ;)
>>>>>>>>But a lot of that has to do with the architectural style of the house.You're right. But, as I said before: Wood gutters were first. Aluminum gutters are a (poor) replication. Houses with open cornice would not have had wooden gutters traditionally and should have half round gutters if any at all (IMHO). Slateman has improved the system by taking the regular maintenance of wooden gutters (coating the inside yearly and sealing the joints) by lining them with copper. The look is the same from the ground, but cleaning is the only maintenance.http://grantlogan.net/
You might find this detail of interest (published 1911). Look at the top center of the scan.
View Image
You're right. But, as I said before: Wood gutters were first. Aluminum gutters are a (poor) replication.
Yeah, wood gutters (probably) came before metal ones. But what did the Romans and Greeks use? Stone? Does that mean that wood is a poor replication, too?
I don't really understand why the material makes that big of a difference in terms of aesthetics. It's usually painted anyway. I'm just wondering why it wouldn't be a better solution to use an aluminum gutter but to have all the surrounding geometry be the same as an older wood design. Is this somehow impossible?
I'm kind of surprised that I'm not just going along with this -- normally I'm the one who's arguing in favor of the "old school" methods. ;) Maybe it's just because I haven't seen all that many wood gutters, so I haven't really experienced the true difference.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>But what did the Romans and Greeks use? Stone? Does that mean that wood is a poor replication, too? Jeezy pete. The Romans and Greeks used what ever they used in Rome or Greece at the time. That has nothing to do with houses built in the 18th or 19th century in New England. I live in KY. I've never seen a wooden gutter around here. We do have lots of metal lined built in gutters. Some people want to chop their whole cornice off and put up aluminum ogee gutters. Ruins the look of the house, but hey, if it was good enough for the Romans.................http://grantlogan.net/
The overall aesthetic design is critical, of course. There's no way that a house is going to look as good after someone tears off a huge cornice and replaces it with comparitively dinky gutter.
I was half joking about the Roman thing, of course. But keep in mind that all those cornices in New England are copies of Greek and Roman designs. That was kind of the point. The Greeks and Romans built with stone. We built with wood, and now we're using new materials that are available to us.
Sometimes the new materials are simply cheap crap, but sometimes they can be better than what they're replacing. The material choice has to be evaluated on its merits --- simple as that.
So back to my question: if the overall cornice geometry stays the same, why would an aluminum gutter be a "poor replication" of a wood one?
Edited 6/15/2007 10:56 pm ET by Ragnar17
>>>>>if the overall cornice geometry stays the same, why would an aluminum gutter be a "poor replication" of a wood one?If you can't tell the difference aesthetically, between a wooden gutter and an aluminum gutter then I can't really explain any further, but I'll try. It's a case of "if you gotta ask, you'll never know". Look at a cornice return on the average house with alum gutters. Usually, the gutter will stop at the edge of the eaves with a flat end cap rather than following the return back around to the side wall. The wooden gutter would be mitered around the return. We do a lot of aluminum gutter work - I'm not an anti-aluminum guy. I just think (know, actually) that a lot of alum gutter installers are hacks that don't have a clue what a good gutter job should look like or just don't give a crap. And it doesn't matter, because the customer doesn't know the difference and only cares what it costs.http://grantlogan.net/
If you can't tell the difference aesthetically, between a wooden gutter and an aluminum gutter then I can't really explain any further...
I guess I'm not communicating this very well.
An analogy might be in the use of trim around an exterior window. The old method is to use clear finish lumber. Today, you could also use Azek, for example. When the installation is done and painted, there's virtually no visible difference.
So, with respect to the gutters, if the the work is done nicely and there's no way to tell by looking whether the gutter is aluminum or wood, what would be the advantage to using wood?
You said you do a lot of aluminum gutter work --- when you're using aluminum gutters, don't you follow the cornice and return the gutter back into the house? I know there's a lot of hacks out there hanging aluminum gutters, but that doesn't mean the product is to blame for their shoddy workmanship.
I know that the "standard" aluminum gutter is larger and has a crown profile, so it doesn't match the old wood gutters exactly in terms of appearance. But other than that (and assuming it's not cost effective to make custom metal gutters), what are the limitations of working with metal gutters as opposed to wood ones?
Edited 6/16/2007 2:46 am ET by Ragnar17
>>>>>>>>The old method is to use clear finish lumber. Today, you could also use Azek, for example. When the installation is done and painted, there's virtually no visible difference. You just answered your own question. If there were virtually no visible difference, then you'd be staying true to the house.>>>>>So, with respect to the gutters, if the the work is done nicely and there's no way to tell by looking whether the gutter is aluminum or wood, what would be the advantage to using wood?There's your answer. It's not possible to fool me into thinking an aluminum gutter is wooden crown mould. I have done some gutters (copper usually) that sit on a shelf so that the only part of the gutter you see is the front ogee, but that's a whole different design feature. The aluminum gutter probably handles water better (not all situations are the same), but it doesn't look quite the same - no way, no how. Lined with copper like the pics Walter showed, the wood gutter will outlast an aluminum gutter, especiallly in heavy snow country. And as far as maintenance goes, we spend a lot of time resealing the miters and end caps in so-called seamless gutters.http://grantlogan.net/
"with respect to the gutters, if the the work is done nicely and there's no way to tell by looking whether the gutter is aluminum or wood, what would be the advantage to using wood?"No way of comparing. once the Azek is finished, it looks the same, but it is impossible to make AL look the same as wood built in up there
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You want to hold him and I'll hit him or vice versa? :+}http://grantlogan.net/
Did you happen to note the scan that I posted in 91089.40 ?
It was interesting to me the way the small cove acted as a ledger under the gutter section. It would hide the gap between the gutter and the fascia, and (the way it's drawn) would complete the geometry of a classical crown profile.
Yes, I saw that - it is the way we see the wood gutters installed, right down to the cove. It is also the way we install the new wood guters. I thought that drawing was a wood one at firstI am at the laptop now, but I do have some closer pictures from top side of wood gutters that can let you see the inner profile.
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As I understand it, wooden gutter are still used in New England. They can come as prefabbed sections that are joined with dowels, then sealed with soldered or molten lead. I know that in the pre-Dewalt era, craftsmen would make the gutter section from a 4x4 or bigger cedar, hand plane an ogee on the face as per crown mold and then hollow with, go figure, a gutter plane. This plane was just a wooden handplane with a convex sole and matching iron. Living near Lancaster Pa I've seen these planes in antique tool shops, many still serviceable. These gutters were made from a solid piece, alleviating sealing too many joints in a built up construction.
…and then hollow with, go figure, a gutter plane. This plane was just a wooden handplane with a convex sole and matching iron.
______________My cousin has a gutter adze in his shop -- neither of us knows how old it is.It's got a haft similar to that of a shortish axe and a very deep sweep to the adze itself, IIRC it's about three inches across.Here's Highland's gutter adzes:http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1080http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1073Leon
I may well be wrong on this one, but I don't think the Greeks or Romans used gutters. The wood gutters we use now are shaped to replicate the cornice edge detail on their entablatures and freizes, but the detail drawings I real from them do not show rain diversion capability as I recall.As far as AL being built in like wood, I think the dents, dings, and ice stretcching it would ake it obvious after ten years that it was only AL.One nice thing abut the wood is that you can throw a ladder up agaist it to clean or climb on the roof or even walk on one. Try that with tin or AL;)
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You can't miter the alum profile to the rake trim on an older home- and typically were talking older home when wooden gutters are called for.
I agree in principle with you about incorporating new materials into our work when feasible- but this just isn't one of them from where I sit.
95% of my work is restoring older homes and wooden gutters are integral to a lot of them.
Walter
95% of my work is restoring older homes and wooden gutters are integral to a lot of them.
Walter,
Related to the photos you posted, how much does that sort of job run?
And since I really know NOTHING about maintaining a copper-lined gutter system, what is the maintenance schedule? Finally, (looking into your crystal ball), how many years would you expect that copper-lined system to last before it required total replacement?
The 4"x6" fir gutter is now around $16-$18 a foot.
20 oz. copper around $150 a 3'x8' sheet.
That job required a complete rebuild of the wood work as well as copper and slating- probably $6 to $7 K.
I'm fairly sure it will last 50 to 75 years or more- much longer than unlined wood would last.
Walter
Thanks for the info, Walter.
Is there any sort of period maintenance required, like checking and/or resoldering seams, etc.?
As with any guttering , it should be checked annually for leaf and crud build up so it will continue to function properly.
If any problems develop then they will be discovered during that cleaning.
Older houses with rock wall foundations benefit greatly from having a functioning gutter system in our cold Northeast climate- maybe warmer areas it might not be so crucial
Walter
There is no doubt in my mind that a wood gutter will out last an AL gutter if both are given reasonable care and cleaning. On reason is that ice will tear uf the AL and the hangers will loosen.
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One reason is that ice will tear uf the AL and the hangers will loosen.
Thanks for that observation, Piffin. I don't live in ice country, so I've never had to deal with the impact of it on gutter systems. I'm assuming that the cross-sectional shape of the trough in the wood gutter has to be such that expanding ice won't get constrained and thus break the gutter apart (kind of like building in a draft angle in form work). Is that correct? (Maybe that's why the old metal gutters where shaped like a half-circle, too, huh?)
There is no doubt in my mind that a wood gutter will outlast an AL gutter if both are given reasonable care and cleaning.
Thanks for that, too. This discussion has really challenged some of the preconceived notions I had about wood gutters. I just thought that the wood systems were from a time when wood was cheap and plentiful, and that there wasn't much advantage to them aside from aesthetic considerations.
Not that I've necessarily been converted. :) As you previous mentioned, most people can't be bothered with maintenance at all these days. That's why our society is filled with so many disposable items. For all those people, aluminum gutters seem to be a "better" choice because it fits their lifestyle.
Out where I work, Victorian-era houses (or older) are pretty few and far between. So I've never had to deal with hidden gutter systems or integrated gutters like the one Walter posted.
But if I ever do come across one, I'll have a lot more respect for it and will be able to advise the homeowner regarding the merits of rebuilding the old system the way it was designed.
Ragnar
Edited 6/16/2007 3:41 pm ET by Ragnar17
It is definately a wooden gutter, built into the fascia system so that it's an architectural element.
Lining it with copper and extending an apron helps eliminate snow back up issues, plus extends the useful life of the fir gutter.
There is no way an alum. gutter system can compare for looks or longevity to the system I showed in that album.
Although others have covered it well, I thought some folks might like seeing this album I sent to Kieran.
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhq0Io
Thanks for the link to the picture album, slateman. That's some very nice work.
Walter, you the man!
That was a nice tutorial.
Doug
Thank you Doug, sometimes a picture or 40 is worth more than words can convey.
Walter
Walter,Thanx for sharing. Once again, you are an artisan with few equals. Years ago we built a pair of porches on a Brick Victorian with a copper standing seam 3/12 hip roof. We notched the ends of the doug fir rafters 3" X 7" starting in the front center. each notch was 3/8" deeper as we returned to the house. We lined it with 5/4 VG redwood. The fronts was 5/4 X 8 and served as th facia. The tinner did a good job lining the trough and broke all of the 20 oz on the job. The 3" cu downspouts were concealed in half colums at the house. We did this back in the late 70's The first pic is the front of the house. The second is the rear. Sorry no roof pics that I could find. Some of the older homes in Georgtown, DC have wood gutters that are lined like you showed.Once again keep up the great work.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Those porch pictures are gorgeous. I wish I were capable of that high a quality craftmanship way back then.
Did you have a mentor or person you learned from- or are you self taught like I am? The best teacher I've found is taking apart the old stuff and seeing how it stood the test of time- improving for the rebuild if possible.
As always you're way to kind! Thank you.
Walter
Walter,Thanx for the kind words. In the early 70's I worked at a 100 year old hardware store that had a small lumber yard in a different building. I eventually became assistant manager. We built radiator covers, screen and storm doors, etc. One of five brothers that ran the lumber shop retired and the other brothers shut it down to expand their small engine/lawn mower repair shop. So my brother and I started with $500.00 and a beat up F-150. When Harold retired, he gave me a stack of about 300 3X5 cards with customer contact info. So, I had a jump start on the millwork end, and like you, self taught for everything else.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
ktkamm,
Have you checked into the availablity of wooden gutters? I would think they'd be available in your neck of the woods. I know of a yard that carried them (at least up until a few years ago) down in Ma.
Where in Me. are you? IIRC they were running about $6./ft.
Geoff
I'll second the notion for " Boston Pattern" wooden gutter made from Western fir, and available here in Maine.
The price is a lot more than Geoffrey last paid- more like double. They are a proven entity,look good,relatively easy to work with, and will look infinately better than plastic.
Walter
Yeah, I think about eleven bucks now for the 4x5. It has been a long time since I used the 3x4 so I don't know for it.
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Regarding the size of wooden gutters: Piffin says he hasn't used the smaller 3x5 size (of the 2 sizes readily available here in Maine). Why not? Snow loads?Let's say you're not trying to match an existing gutter but starting new--would you still go with the 4x6?I ask because I am thinking about ordering some 3x5 from Viking for my own house. Straight 40' runs along each eave.
View Image
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I didn't mean to say I don't use it - I have, just not recently enough to know what the price might be.For sizing, you pick to fit the house.
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OK, thanks.Viking sells 3x4 for $5.82 (4x5 is $11.76).I'm thinking the 3x4 will do fine for my situation.Creative Communications | Logos | Business Cards | Websites | http://www.hwaters.com
Edited 6/21/2007 12:13 pm ET by Megunticook
Normally 3" x 4" is used for porches and other roofs with lower amounts of water being captured.
4" x 5" is the more common one used for most house roofs with 4" x 6" used for larger roofs or to match up with larger rake trim.
A 40' run of 3" x 4" will require more than drops on either end or risk overflowing in a decent rain.
Walter
"For sizing, you pick to fit the house."So you've seen the smaller stuff on homes and it looked/functioned just fine?
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If you have a sizeable roof area ,4" x 5" is a better choice. Probably aesthetically too.
It is a function most directly related to the sie of the roof it drains - amount of water it would collect. The smaller might be fine for a ranch size that has maybe a 14' run of roof. Larger and I start looking at the bigger gutter. Style overall has a minor part in it al too.
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It is extremely easy to buy good fir wood gutters with a nice profile here in Maine.
If for some reason you were making your own, the plan you have is a poor one. 3/4" is not strong enough to resist the forces of the ice you would have in it, so it would flex out and break cracks in the FG within a couple of years. Further, pine is a poor choice for exterior trim of any kind here, it rots too fast
Try the advanced search. It may have been a couple of years back, but there were some threads discussing wood gutters. I had one where I posted several photos how to joint corners etc.
If you can't find it, hail me again.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I see you've gotten some good responses, and with no laughter. I, too, have made wood gutters. Pine, epoxied and screwed together. I coated the inside with epoxy, lightly sanded, then painted with high-gloss oil-based enamel.
West System epoxy and Pratt & Lambert paint.
After five years, there is zero paint failure, and no other problems that I'm aware of. But if I were to do it over again, I would consider a purchased product of wood or PVC.
Allen
Probably thirty years ago, I took a church youth group to the hills of southern Ohio on a home-repair mission trip. One of the houses we worked on had wooden gutters.
From below, the walls looked as if they had a fairly normal cornice at the top, with no gutters. The roof edge did not overhang the visible edge of that cornice -- made it look just a bit weird, but only if you stared.
From the roof, I could see that the sloped shingles ended in the troughs. The troughs were lined with rolled roofing - and the owner told me that they also had been hot mopped originally. The slope of the roof ended at the inside edge of the trough bottom -- the gutters did not have two sides of their own, just the slope on one side, and the outer side on the other. The trough bottom was probably 8 inches wide. The outside vertical was probably 5" tall, and was metal flashed over its top edge.
Its been too long to remember how the downspouts tie in.
If you think about how these might have been framed, you'll understand that they sat on top of the rafters, at the outer end of the rafters.
The owner (91 year old, named Lou Gorantz) was quite proud of his structural gutters -- told me that I could walk in them if needed, they were strong enough. He was corrrect.
Support our Troops. Bring them home. Now. And pray that at least some of the buildings in the green zone have flat roofs, with a stairway.
Have you seen this?
http://www.azek.com/insp/third%20page_04_mihm.pdf
Best to you and yours, Chris.
Building as thou art paranoid never harmed anyone.
I looked at the picture, but I can't figure out how they used Azek in the gutter system -- it all looks like copper in the (grainy) picture.
>>>>>>>>I can't figure out how they used Azek in the gutter systemI think there must be a built in gutter (trimmed in Azek - lined with copper) in that radiused balcony.http://grantlogan.net/
I was origionally looking for a PVC gutter at the Azek site. One lunber yard that I use had a sample on their front desk a while ago that was the same size and shape as the old cedar gutters. Maybe it was another brand name? Before you start inventing your own gutter, Call Azek Monday.Best to you and yours, Chris.
Building as thou art paranoid never harmed anyone.
I couldn't find Azek gutter either but found Brosco "ATW" PVC gutters. I've been trying to remember the price - it was either $241/10 ft section or $214/section. Sorry - lousy memory. That was at a local lumber yard in eastern mass.
The pvc gutters are fabricated by Advanced TrimWright Inc' located somewhere in Mass. They sent me a sample and it is identical to my 80 year old woodies. Check their website for dealers.
Thanks. They seem to have a pretty extensive product line.
Anybody got a postable photo of a "Gutter Plane" ?"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Pretty sure I do, gotta check the other computer. Or take a new pic.
Gutter plane:http://www.crownplane.com/catalog.htmlLeon
Glad ya beat me to it, mine are not near as elegant. Or as new.
I'd never heard of a gutter plane until it was mentioned. Makes sense, tho.
Leon
Can't seem to open that link.
Thanks,
Kieran
The link's still working for me this morning.
Maybe your pop-up blocker is preventing you from opening the link. Try cutting and pasting the address into your browser instead.