Hi, <!—-><!—-> <!—->
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I am french although have lived ten years in the <!—-> <!—-><!—->Chicago<!—-> <!—-> area and maried an american.<!—-> <!—->
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I have an emergency question : a very good friend of mine has purchased an old sheperd home in the <!—->Alps<!—->. He is currently remodeling it and has to decide for the roof before the winteris here. He would like to install a wooden roof but is puzelled about the option of treated wood with Arsenic. Safety and ecology are his major concern.<!—-><!—->
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Knowing the americans are expert in building wooden house, what would be a good alternative for a wooden roof easy to maintain and Green ? <!—-><!—->
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If you have any advice or person to contact, i’ll be greatfull<!—-> <!—->
By the way, i am delighted i have signed up for discussions. I am a cabinet maker
Take care,
Beny<!—-> <!—->
Replies
We use Cedar here for shakes and shingles. it is naturally rot resistant and can last 20 - 40 years.
if the only product available to him there is treated, that is possibly better , posssibly not so good.
Reason is that t5he only woods I know of here in America that are so treated are woods that are not a good choice for roofing to begin with, because they are the kinds that rot more easily.
I would not worry about the treatment chemical having arsenic. CCA treated wood was recently removed from the market here because of treat of lawsuit by idiotic environmentalists, in spite of the fact that no studies showed any harm coming from it. The arsenic was in a form that was inert and could only be release by heat or acid, such as burning it or placing it in a manure pile, or eating it and exposing it to stomach acids.
Presuming that your friend would be using the same treated, and presuming further that he will not be eating his roof, pileing manure on it, or burning it to release the arsenic, he will be safe to use that sort of treated wood.
See if you can find out what species of wood and the specific treatment chemical compound he is considering. If there is a website from the distibutor or manufacturer, it would be interesting to review it.
Installation of wood shakes or shingles should consider ventilation so the wood does not stay wet. The Cedar shingle institute has some good information. You could also try the advanced search function here to find previous threads discussing these details.
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Beny, Hi and welcome to the discussions. There's much information and I'm confident you will find your answer here. As to the roof in the Alps.. what is the style/design of the roof( Shingle/shake ; Plank- horizontal/vertical or maybe some type of a German side lap shingle) ?. I assume being in the Alps it would have to support a heavy snow load? As to being green how about natural rot resistant types of wood... Locust ; White Oak ; Old Growth Cypress.What types of wood are available there? Just my 2 cents . I'm sure someone else will have more to say . Bill D. Quality Wood Chips
As Piffen said, the old pressure treated lumber was phased out 3 or 4 years ago. The new stuff is much improved and will have zero effect on the environment.
Just be sure if he goes with what we (Americans) call "pressure treated lumber" he uses the latest generation of corrosive resistant metal hangers, clips, etc. The old ones will react with the new lumber and lose strength over time.
Runnerguy
"The new stuff is much improved and will have zero effect on the environment."That is debateable - but it did do away with arsenic but since he is specifically asking about the arsenic, i presume he has reason to believe that the product being considered is treated with a CCA compound instead of ACQ without arsenic.We can find out when he checks back in
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FWIW, Dale recently returned from Switzerland and was astonished how well wood holds up there. NO TERMITES, Almost no rot..extremely dry average relative Humidity.
He said he saw "wood stuff" that we could never do here..and it all was lasting / holding up just fine after many, many years.
With that said, being Alpine and all that, maybe treated pine is not quite the best available over there..maybe just riven SPF would be ok..I dunno, just throwing it out there.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Alpine climates at high elevations do tend to see less rot. The lower oxygen and the longer cold season and drier air combine to make it harder for the micro-organisms to grow and feed on the wood.
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Beny,
Thanks for joining us.. glad to have you interest..
There are a couple of questions that need to be discussed.. first a wooden roof is reasonably common here but I'm not sure we agree on how to define wooden roof.. If you mean the timbers and frame work are made of wood, then yes we have those here as well but they are less common. Here such roofs are called timberframed.. There are some details which Americans differ greatly from European codes so it becomes critical to discuss those details in depth..
Second.. If you mean the shingles are wood then that is far more common here.. Follow Piffins advice.
Thank you verry much for your answer. I was talking about what you guys call shingles. If i understand what it is, these are flat square or rectangle pieces of wood that make the final cover of the roof....right ?
Which wood and is it chemically treated or just natural.?
Thanks,
Beny
Again - here we use Cedar and it is not normally treated.Did you read the other responses before frenchie's?Here is all the info you would normally need for roofing with cedar.
http://www.cedarbureau.org/http://www.maibec.com/eng/pages/shingles/shingles_products.htm
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thank you so much,
I forwarded your mail to my friend who is going to his Alp's house this week.
We start to use wood for houses in France but our old culture has a hard time to trust wood as much as stone. What a mistake!
Anyway thank you again and take care,
Beny
If your friend uses the new (ACQ) pressure treated wood for the shingles, make sure he uses good nails to put them on. ACQ will eat (corrode) most nails, so he should probably use stainless steel nails. I suppose that copper nails would also work.
Good point. When in doubt use stainless.It's worth it. Bill D
yes, copper nails should be fine with copper wood;)
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Beny
I live where wood is extremely cheap.
I buy extremely high quality wood for as little as 10 cents per board foot. a board foot is one foot, by one foot ,by one inch thick.
It makes economic sense to build with wood at those prices..
However, IN France the price of Wood is a real premium, what cost me less than $25,000.00 would most likely cost over a million dollars (US) in France..
While stone is far more permanent and affordable..
Thank you frenchy,
I was actually telling my friend that since the exchange rate is good, It might be interresting to purchasse wood in the States. What you say confirms it.
Take care,
Beny
Beny,
if you do buy here in the midwest where price pressure is significantly lower, your shipping costs will be higher but the price differance is note worthy..
That's right,
I take note of it.
Thanks,
Beny
Beny, It's just red cedar normally although it could be white cedar (Common on the east coast of America) or yellow cedar.
Normally it's left to weather to a soft grey although on rare occasions It's treated
what?!Treated shingles weather to grey too.
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Piffin,
You are correct, I misspoke. I should have said wood normally weathers to a soft grey and sometimes it's treated.
In your case I could have said that you paint your roof as well. <G>
That would likewise be incorrect. But I have seen them painted plenty of times.How is it going with your bending the shingles?
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Piffin,
9 minutes per shingle as long as they aren't too thick and not wider than 4 inches.. I lose less than one shingle in 20 which seems to be pretty good.. I have less than 10 feet left to cover on the lake side. This winter I'm giving my steam box a rest and next summer I'll tackle the tower. The East wing will be tackled the summer of 09 and the four dormers will probably be tackled 2010. Unless I get a good paying job and can afford some help in nwhich case the roof will be done as soon as the check clears.. <G>