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Workers Comp

| Posted in Business on June 24, 2003 06:03am

Does anyone have any advice on workers comp ins.  My father and I run a framing business together.  Most of our work is in the upper middle to middle high end houses for the market(250,000-650,000).  From what we see and hear we are in the same ballpark on pricing as our competitors $3.50 to $5.00 depending on type of house, roofs, arches, stairs, etc.  We pay our help well, probably a little above market but we are efficient, we don’t make a lot of mistakes,  and we seldom if ever have down time.  The problem in our profit seems to be workers comp, we are paying 17.9%.  I have asked a dozen or more people in the insurance industry how they arrived at this number and I can’t seem to find anyone with a decent answer.  Now I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer butt lets say the insurance companies are making double their investment, so for every 1,000,000 worth of framing it is costing them 90,000 in claims.  I doubt it!  Even if this was the case does it make sense that you pay the same % on an inexperienced person you are paying $10.00 per hr as on an experienced person with years of experience you are paying $20.00 per rhr.  I don’t thank soooooo!  I just don’t understand, If anyone has any advice I would love to here.  Sorry if all of this doesn’t  make any sense but I just got my workers comp bill for last month and it isn’t far from what I brought home last month.   What am I doing WRONG?!?!?!?

 

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  1. User avater
    james | Jun 24, 2003 07:09am | #1

    some companies ( work comp providers ) in California have a wage separator, in other words it is this much for people paid up to 20.00 and this much for those paid over 20.00, call around.

    James

  2. xMikeSmith | Jun 24, 2003 07:36pm | #2

    capn... as far as i no... comp rates are set after hearings before your state insurance board.. the statewide or geographical  rates for each const. category are the same..

     then they are  modified by your insurance company.. a discount mod.... your company's experience mod.  losses, etc...

     but all rates for the  classification should be the same in your state... or.. for your specific location.. ie:  NYC will have different rates than Westchester.. or something like that..

     get a hold of your agent .. if he can't help you make sense of your Comp... get another agent... or another agency... or a different comp . insurer

     and

    Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

  3. JerraldHayes | Jun 25, 2003 03:40am | #3

    Captainjp doesn't sound "that bad" for framing. I had figured or heard that framers were paying 20 to 23% and just looking it up right now the national average for framers (3 stories or less) last year was 19% with high of 32.22% (ouch!) and a low of 8.79 but like James and Mike have said it all depends on and is set by the state.

    I have heard that what James said about California is true that there are different rate levels depending on the pay rate (which generally corresponds to the experience) of the personnel. In some cases out there it's sometimes cheaper to give an apprentice a wage increase to a journey level because you'll save by getting a lower comp rate.

    As for NYC being a different comp rate than Westchester I'm not to sure about that since I was never bumped for that in any audits. I'm westchester based although we will travel into Manhattan (although I am sure liability is higher for NY work).

    At any rate as Mike says talk to you agent and work with them. If you are doing work other than framing carpentry such as finish carpentry too you should be able to get a better rate for that work when you do it based on the relative proportions of the respective work. You just have to keep meticulous timecard records where the employees work can be broken out into different categories at the time of audit.


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  4. mikewest | Jul 22, 2003 06:04am | #4

    3.50 to 5.00? Where are you at. That seems really cheap. I don't know what your market is like there, but here in Kansas City, Missouri, the going rate for starters is around 6.00 per sf. If its cut up or steeper pitches it can get up into the teens. Just curious where you are from.

                                Mike

    1. captainjp | Jul 29, 2003 05:24am | #5

      I am from Nashville TN and I don't think we are below market here.  We do loose jobs to lower bidders from time to time.  We do get more than that homes over 500K.  What price range of homes are you building?

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