Built this garage several years ago-then got injured and never finished it up.
Had my buddies install the trim. Now I’ve got 20 oz. standing seam panels on,and the roof redone with Grace and Titanium. Will start putting on salvage Monson slates tonight.
Going to peck away over the Summer when I have time.
Natural light, taller ceilings, and more functional spaces transform this midcentuary-modern home.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Looks like it should last a good long time. Never seen a roof done this way, will the slate go all the away to roof edge over (and between) the copper?
PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
The standing seam panels will be left exposed 24" to the weather- then the slates will be laid from that line to the ridge.
More pictures later tonite to show it with pictures.
Walter
Looking good Walter!
It is nice that you do the same quality of work for youself that you provide your customers.
Chuck S
Thank you Chuck!
I'm just as worthy of my talents as some folks I work for.
The walls will be patterned slate as well. Maybe before the snow flies.
Walter
Starting the slating.
Notice the countersunk holes in this Monson savaged slate.
Dumb question,
Due to the weight of the slate, do the rafters need to be bigger than normal (or sistered if a slate rood is replacing an asphalt roof)??
http://www.grosshillrentals.com
Not dumb at all- most everyone thinks the roof structure needs to be oversized to handle slate.
The reality is is that it only weighs 5 or 6 pounds per sq. foot more than asphalt shingles- so if a roof is properly framed for a live and dead load of 50 to 60 than slate would not be an issue.
This building has 16' 2x10's at 16" centers so there will be no problems.
Walter
Nice looking roof! What is the cost of slate per square, roughly?
(by the way, don't forget to reapply that housewrap before siding - a new layer can go right over the old one, but that existing wrap is too old to be left functioning on it's own).Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
This slate is salvage I took off a Pawn Shop building 9 years ago or so. There were always snow slide issues since this building sat right at sidewalk depth.
Instead of having me remedy the causes of the cascading snow and ice- they wanted an architectural roof put on. I wound up with some superlative recycled Monson slate- some of the best stone ever quarried for roofing. The best part is that I was paid well to do the work- so the slate was a freebie.
New slate like I used and showed in the thread " Greek Revival roof restoration" costs me close to $500 a square here in Maine. The salvage Monson even though 80 years young is still better slate than that from the Glendylyn quarry in Quebec.
One mans poor roof is another mans goldmine!!
Walter
OK. Another dumb question. This one regarding countersunk holes.
The only slate work I ever did, I punched the holes with a slater's hammer from the underside, thus automatically producing countersinks. It's the only way I ever knew. Is there another way that does not countersink?
BTW, I loved working with slate -- just hated to carry it 20' up the ladder. ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
These slates were drilled at the quarry with round coutersunk holes.
If you look closly at an up close picture you can see the perfect hole.
When extra holes are needed I add them exactly as you describe.
You can see my ladder- vator in one picture. I don't like carrying up any more than you did.
Walter
Here are a couple more pictures.
The first shows the slate siding waiting patiently to be installed on the sidewalls.
The second is of 4 solid porch columns in need of some Abatron- then to be erected.
Walter,
This is truly 'green' construction. I hate these neophytes that talk about all of these modern materials that are 'green' You are using top of the line recycled slate that you got paid to remove. Rather than ripping it off you carefully finessed it off and probally recovered 85% or so
To me, the original 'green' builders from our Colonial days used the clay or rock they excavated by hand for foundations and brick. The trees they cleared for timbers. Grass for roofs, etc.
Keep up the good work. What exactly is "Monson" slate? Hand split?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Thanks for the ego boost!
The porch columns in that one picture were from a house just being demo-ed,and you can also see my salvage boards diagonally sheathed in the backround.
Monson is a town about 80 miles from where I am in Maine- which had some wonderful veins of slate that were quarried from the 1880's into the 30's or 40's.
The nail holes were drilled and countersunk to receive the nails.
Thanks again for the kind words.
Walter
What exactly is "Monson" slate? Hand split?
l'll add to the Monson Information with this....
Slate was discovered in 1870. The Monson Maine Slate Company was the first quarry to open, and continued to operate until 1943. The Portland-Monson Slate Company was organized later and today, under the name Sheldon Slate Company, continues to produce some of the finest black slate in the world. The grave markers of both John F. Kennedy and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis in Arlington Cemetery are made of black slate from Monson, Maine, and were also engraved here.
The good folks of Monson are very proud of thier Slate.
http://www.kynd.net/monson/facts.html
Hey Slateman, that looks like it will be a good looking roof detail. Is it based on local precedent? I've never seen anything like it here in the Cincinnati area (or Midwest for that matter). BTW, did you use a bond break at all between the copper and the Grace? Red rosin paper maybe?
The grace is from the slate exposure up the width of the roll- so no I wanted adhesion to the copper directly to stop backup from happening.
There is just 30 lb. felt underneath the standing seam panels.
Yes - part local custom, part to show my roofing talents to people who visit.
Thanks for the response.
Walter
Thanks, slateman. I hope you'll post pictures upon completion!
I'm actually going to post more along the way.
Today I'm putting in two Velux skylights which I'll put up later today. These need to go in before I can slate up any further.
Thanks for the feedback.
Walter
Worked today on putting in two Velux 304 VS skylights in my garage roof.
Needed these in so I could continus slating this side.
Some pictures of the install and getting set up for slating tomorrow.
Looking great Walter.
Not to be a stupid azz, but...we use a lot of Titanium UDL...can't miss that warning about staples. My question is, I use a cap stapler at times, instead of button cap nails ( now trust me, I am only askingthis for the benefit of readers who may mis-interpret the warnings on Ti UDL), so how would you define the warnings? No Arrow T-50 slapppers? or NO cap staples?
I did my roof with the 1" narrow crown galvy staples ( 5/16th) and the Bostitch caps...being a 3/12 or so. Walking a 12/12 stapled a few yrs ago, on 30 lb felt, i nailed ( by hand) after the initial slap it on...took a long time.
Your thoughts?Parolee # 40835
>>>>>>>>>>or NO cap staples?Cap staples won't hold up for the six months that the Titanium will. 2-3 months in the sun and the caps degrade enough to pop off the staples. Can't see any problem if it's gonna be covered up soon unless there's potential for the stapled caps to tear thru and let the Titanium move while you're trying to walk on it. I found no value to a cap stapler and have several reasons I don't want one used on my jobs.http://grantlogan.net/
I don't pay much attention to labels on products, although I've seen no staples written on the UDL.
I framed up this building quite some time ago and 30 lb. felted the roof. I had to patch and add to it over time as sun and wind worked on it. Once the trim was on and the copper panels, we stripped all the old crap off to get back to the recycled board deck- tand g- then added the Titanium.
I use a Hitahi button gun-it's got the banjo for the button feed in addition to the regular nail feed. I like those a lot. You can cover in a large area on one coil of each. Some of the old buttons I recently bought from an ex- roofer recently don't feed quite as well, but it was a hell of a buy.
Have a great Weekend. I'll be slating in an hour or so. Going to add some scallops slate in between the skylights.
Best, Walter
I agree with Grant that the staple variety ( Bostitch) do degrade somewhat quicker than the green or orange "TRUE" , hand driven caps ...heck I have some up on my house from last summer, and they show more failure than the hand drives.
I ran short of money and shingles and help last summer, so a sacantling of UDL got us through the winter..LOL
Soon as I can get my act together,I'll knock out the last few sqaures of shingles.Parolee # 40835
It's hard to work all day for others- then come home all tired and worn out and try to jump back into home projects.
Luckily I hired out the trim install so I could do the roof a little at a time.
I'll look on Tues. for the two man log hauler- it's at my shop in Bangor if I still have it.
Walter
That is preachin to the chior my friend, even my days off, I need to re-group my energy to get anything done...my wife always says, you work hard all week, take a break...then two minutes later...hey, ya ever gonna do something with ( fill in the blank) LOLParolee # 40835
Getting my scalloped butt slates ready to install.
Edited 5/27/2007 11:02 am ET by theslateman
Edited 5/27/2007 11:04 am ET by theslateman
Didn't get this second picture in properly
Walter,That is going to be one nice looking roof.
Are those scallopped slates recycled as well. Are they cut or can they be ordered like that?Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Those were cut several years ago from the same slates as the rectangular ones.
I've got to go back out now and cut some more. I'll use the patterned slates between the skylights and maybe a few rows above.
Kind of playing by the seat of my pants.
Thanks for looking.
Walter
How do you cut them?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
A simple guillotine cutter makes the curved cuts. Mark them on the backside and cut the same - leaves the champhered edge on the face side.
Looks kinda fishy to me..... sorry, I couldn't help it. Looks good Walter. I think the scales between the s/l is a nice touch.http://grantlogan.net/
Thats the only fishin' I've done all year!
Thanks for the thumbs up.
I'll be working more on it tonite and tomorrow too.
Have a good Holiday
Walter
Let me see if I understand this. You put standing seam copper over the entire roof, then overlaid all but the lower 24" with slate. Why the copper all the way up?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
The copper panels are 30" tall- leaving 24" exposed.
They act as an "ice belt" protecting the lowest portion of the roof from ice and snow backup.
A fewb more pictures showing the slating around the skylights and how I'll taper in the "fishscale" slates from both ends.
In 007 one tile has three nails, and the other has four holes but only 2 nails. Can you explainhow you detrmine the nailing requirements."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
FastEddie,
The slate on the left with 4 holes had them when I got them as salvage. In most cases they were added to nail that slate where there was a void in the sheathing boards.
Where my narrower slate is butting to the skylight I usually double nail the side away from the flashing to help hold it in alignment.
sometimes if you feel the board isn't quite firm enough, you might add another nail to help hold the slate.
Notice the T+G sheathing is recycled as well.
Walter
Walter,
Nice Transition in Pic 001. Does that carry to the ridge?
Chuck S.
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 5/29/2007 7:01 pm ET by stevent1
It will carry to near the ridge. I didn't calculate the exact number of vertical and horizontal courses when laying it out , so I'll play it by ear when I get closer.
Going to Vinalhaven for a few days for paying work- so my stuff will be on hold.
Walter
I thought that I had the only DW that thought that way! :)
Some more shots of the skylight/slating work- showing the scalloped pattern.
Walter,
As a 30 year Cabinetmaker I am really impressed with the quality of your work. I have a couple of vented "Velux" sky lights on my shop roof and was concerned when they were installed with the provided flashing, no cricket was installed. Jesse, my roofer, said he has never seen a "Velux" leak using the flashing kit. We are in Georgia about 150 miles from Florida, so we have no ice concerns. How do you divert the water above the skylights?
Chuck S live, work, build, ...better with wood
It just looks soo.....old<G>Beautiful.How do you cut the notches?At how low a pitch can slate handle water?It's gotta be great to look out at that. I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
No, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
Well, she talks to all the servants
About man and God and law.
Everybody says
She's the brains behind pa.
She's sixty-eight, but she says she's twenty-four.
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
Thank you. The notches are cut with my manual cutter mostly- cleaned up with a cordless grinder.
This roof is an 8/12, but slate can be installed on a 6 with no problems.
Many mansard roofs in our area had upper pitches of 4/12 and lasted a long time.
Walter
Thanks for responding. I can see using a grinder, but I can't quite picture cutting that notch with a cutter, could you post a tutorial, or at least a pic of the cutter<G>How'd they cut them before grinders?As always, your work fascinates me. I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
No, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
Well, she talks to all the servants
About man and God and law.
Everybody says
She's the brains behind pa.
She's sixty-eight, but she says she's twenty-four.
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
I'm in West Hartford today- but tomorrow I'll put up some pictures for you.
Chuck,
I've put in quite a number of Velux units and I've never had a call back.
I used IWS all around the frame- then flashed it and IWS over the top flashing.
Even though it's not a cricket above I've never had problems.
Thank you for the nice compliments.
Walter
Slateman, can I ask you where you found the copper snow panels? I've been looking for some but can only find aluminum. Nice looking building. Thanks
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
These panels were made on site with my 4' box and pan brake. This stock is 20 oz. The lock is a true double lock 1" standing seam.
I don't know if Berger makes panels commercially or not. A local metal shop could whip some out for you.
Mocking up a pattern for 3 diamonds to go above each skylight and in the center of the roof to add a little extra slaters art to my project.
Raining today so no installation.
5 Velux skylights in an existing slate roof on Tues. and Wed.
Heres one diamond almost laid up. Goinjg to have 3 of these on this side of the roof.
A few more pictures of the slating in progress - with the diamond pattern shingled in with the fish scales.
The last 5 courses on this side will be sq. butt, 2 diamonds, then back to sq. butt to finish at the peak.
20 oz. copper will cap the ridge once the back side is slated.
Walter,
looks great.
on a different note i was having a discussion the other day with someone and the topic was the minimal pitch on a slate roof. i maintained that anything less than 5/12 is suspect. was i erroneous in defending that?
another thing. i just spent several weeks in greenwich, ct. there is some truly beautiful slatework that i was priveleged (yeah right) enough to see. one thing that caught my eye were the slate roofs that started with say an 8 or 10" course and gradually got smaller so that at the ridge the courses may have only been 4".
is there another reason to do this other than asthetics.
You were quite correct on your first query- slate on 6/12 or less is asking for problems.
Secondly, graduated slate roofs are quite common in New York,Penn, and Southern Conn. We have very few here in Northern NE.
I think you're right they are a design feature, and on a steep roof they function just fine. I've only repaired a couple of them and have never installed one.
Walter
thanks walter.
what about 6/12 slate valleys, or does it matter?
Arne
Arne,
If properly executed -valleys on a 6/12 slate roof are fine.
I prefer open valley consruction using 20 oz. copper sheet.
I taper from top to bottom an inch or so on the exposure.
Walter
walter,
that is what i am most familiar with as well, which is why i'm intrigued by slate valleys. i was looking at a great slate roof book that had some sweet looking slate valleys.
i can see why you use copper from a practical standpoint. seems like much more of a chance for error in a slate valley, but man i think it looks great.
arne
I always thought that graduated slate courses were a way to use up broken pieces. I think I read somewhere that was the case in Europe where it supposedly is more common. The ones we have around here are multi-colored multi-sized slate.http://grantlogan.net/
Great thread !
Thanks
On a hill by the harbour
Wow marvelous man!reading through this thinkin Sman needs some skylights for that thing for natural light then post 20 or so Velux - Yes! then fishscales to arrows ( those look so hot ) then copper cappinggilding the lily but you think of an oversized cupola w/ leather chair & hassock?
John,
That cupola sounds supreme, but I'm robbing time from paying work to putter on my stuff.
I can't afford to keep me on much longer.
Truck breakdown means I'll finish that side tomorrow, take roof staging down, then stand back and see if I like it.
Walter
Thank you for the kind response.
I wasn't sure many were tuning in.
Walter
I'm tuning in!
Astonished at the quality of work, like always.
Forrest - three-tab guy, maybe occasionally archy type - sigh . . .
Forrest,
Compliments from guys like you ,who I respect greatly for your craftsmanship, really make my day!!
Much appreciated- thanks, Walter6
Wow, I grew up in upstate NY w/ lots of slate roofs, but yours is one of the best. And it is yours.
Have you seen the roof on St Stephens cathedral in Vienna Austria? It was distroyed (sp) during WW2 and they rebuilt it.
Will
Thank you muchly. No I haven't seen the building you speak of. I'll google it when I have just a bit more time.
Walter
Last two pictures for awhile ( I promise) taken at 6 A.M. with a little dew on the roof .
I liked the way the patterns show up with a little wetness on the slates.
Walter
Great thread!
I love to see work by someone who's obviously knows what they're doing and is enthusiastic about it.You're surely doing something there to be proud of.Plus.........you're from Maine which is a good thing.Me too! (born in Lincoln), now live in CT.Keep up the good work, I'm going to continue to tune in.
Rod
Rod,
I took the slate roof off the old School in Lincoln quite a few years ago.
The one right downtown near the lake.
I think condos or old age housing took it's place.
I used a lot of it on the caretakers building at Leonards Mills in Bradley, the living History Museum.
Thank you , Walter
Perfection.
Not quite, but close enough for my place!
Many thanks, Walter
Grant,
A graduated roof takes much more calculation, planning and strategic use of the ordered materials.
Slate of the same length and width is much easier to install.
I made my job a little more complex by having to cut all the shapes, but I used all the same size slates 9x14 instead of 8 rows 20", 8 rows 18", 8 rows 16" etc.
Not saying it didn't start out differently, but R/W graduated roofs are now more laborious.
Walter
slate roofs are quite common in New York,Penn, and Southern Conn. We have very few here in Northern NE.
By the way that is some fine work you have done slateman!
Just curious, why don't they utilize slate roofs in other areas? Like here in south Alabama I have never seen one. Does too much rain affect a slate roof? Maybe it is expertise in installing one, or lack of. Costs? Material availability? Man, they do look good.
I think my original quote was Graduated slate roofs- length of slates get shorter as they go up the roof.
I'm not sure why slate isn't more prevalent down South. There must be numerous Public Buildings where it is used, but maybe not on residential work.
There are quarries in Virginia so it doesn't seem that material would be an issue. Perhaps style, customs, and lack of good slaters did play a role.
Thanks for the feedback.
Walter
Edited 6/17/2007 10:09 am ET by theslateman
A lot of slate is quarried in NY. Thought you might like this.
http://www.slatevalleymuseum.org/
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Jarhead's question got me thinking..and your answer was also a point to ponder.
Lack of skilled slaters? I dunno. it seems metal roofs are prevalant in the deep south. And surely, transportation must play a role, cuz we know slate is damm heavy, and not available to quarrie in say, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida.
My thinking leads to Birmingham, Al. The Pittsburgh of the south, where the Confederacy, steeled thier toes for the war effort.
Ahhh,, I am just thinking, ought not be typeing, till it festers into a realization of fact.
Got one more day finishing up the roof on the Benson Frame house -- then returning back here for slating the other side of my garage.
Project was put on hold last Fall when my hip went South.
Just one skylight on the back and a different pattern too. Don't even know what I'll design yet !!
Walter,
Looking forward to seeing it.
I don't mean to pry, but why a different pattern?
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Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
There will be only one skylight so I think I'll vary the pattern somewhat.
I'll use the same two patterned slates -- just vary how many of each i use and what overall gesign is implemented.
Walter
Walter,
Thanx for the explanation. After rereading your post #102 I went back and looked at the front again.
You do some great work. This is what I like about BT. Accomplished tradesmen that share their knowledge and efforts.
Chusk Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Just getting going on the back side of my garage after 10 months of no action.
I had most of the copper standing seam panels on , but hadn't finished the soldering. I put my cant strip for the slate under the copper -- no it's not PT !
I cut the locks off the panels at the slate line so that I've got flatter terrain to lay my starters over -- rivet and solder them.
This coppers been on a long time and has already patinated - so I use a wheel in a drill to get a bright surface to take solder.
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A few more of the last seams being soldered prior to Grace and starter course of slates.
First step is too sweat the two pieces together -- then weave a " zipper " like bead to strengthen the joint -- and lastly dress the sides of the seam so water can't work it's way under the weave.
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A few of the task ahead -- we'll strip all the old 30 lb. and buttons and prep with Titanium UDL.
Velux 304 VS will be centered in that side.
Slate's been sitting there for quite some time , but will soon be back on the roof. We've cut quite a few patterned slates , but will still need plenty more.
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Well we're watching, keep 'em coming.
jt8
So what was that like?It was like coming THIS close to your dreams. And then watch them brush past you like a stranger in a crowd. At the time you don’t think much of it. You know we just don’t recognize the most significant moments of our lives while they’re happening. Back then I thought, “well, there’ll be other days.†I didn’t realize that that was the only day. --FoD
Just started back today to get this side watertight for the next 100 years.
I've patched that 30 lb. too many times already.
The walls will also be done with slate -- after I make some money ! I have the material but I've got lots of folks wishing i'd help them too.
Walter
Walter,
Glad you are able to get back at it. From the looks of that solder it will never leak.
Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
Walter,
You post the best of the best!
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=90129.67
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Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
After a couple days out lining up work I'm back here prepping the recycled T/G sheathing boards to accept the slate.
Tearing off all the old decrepit 30 lb. felt and old buttons and checking the deck for loose nails - then putting on a synthetic underlayment fastened with the Hitachi button nailer.
Skylight goes in in the morning -- then can lay out our patterns and start nailing on those great Monson slates.
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Skylight frame being installed and getting ready for slate
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Finally getting some slates cut and put on the roof.
Patterns for our diamonds, scallops , and the slates to blend out of each.
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Some more of the diamond pattern being started to encompass the skylight.
We'll use many scallops to the edges after we get up 4 courses -- blending from the diamonds.
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Walter,
Your work is great and such attention to details.
What is the breakage rate when you are doing the cuts? I guess they can be used in other ways.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
Usually we "sound " the slate prior to cutting it. Hold it in one hand and hit it lightly with the other. You can tell then if it's cracked or "dead " sounding and not use it for cutting or field laying.
If they pass the first test , then cutting is usually sucessful 95% of the time.
Going to work on a bunch this afternoon and tomorrow for a big laying session on Monday.
Walter
Yeah, I was just thinking I wonder how you cut
slate across the grain with out too many failures?
This slate is salvage , but it cuts nicely -- it's better stone than some newly quarried stuff.
The grain is straight and consistant , not wavy and knotty like some other slate.
Hey Walter - great work as always.
I've tried to teach drying in from the top down on steep slopes for years and I've had very few grasp the concept. It seems so intuitive to me.
Keep the pix coming.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Grant,
Good to hear from you .
We're finally getting some Spring like weather here. Looking forward to finishing the slates on this side before I begin my other paying work.
Trying to be more selective so I can work on finishing up some of my own projects here. Saying no to paying jobs is not an easy thing to do though.
Best regards, Walter
Some more pictures of the cutting process and the pattern around the skylight.
A diamond pattern with the diamond shaped slates will encompass the Velux -- then blend into fish scales -- then-- we'll see how it progresses.
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A few more for tonite.
I decided to use wider on every other course to butt to the skylight , instead of a 2.75" piece. So as not to leave exposed step flashings I thought I'd rather see square butts just in this area.
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You're having way too much fun roofing your garage. Party on, dood.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
My, My,
An artisen at work!
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
The jury's still out on that one. This is another seat of the pants design -- but I've convinced myself it will look O K no matter the patterns.
It's kinda crazy really -- taking all this time away from those who pay me.
But after the hip kept acting up I thought I better get it completed just in case.
It's fun being both the client and the contractor - makes me realize what it's like from the other end.
Walter
It's fun being both the client and the contractor
If it wasn't for that annoying money thing, that would be the best way to go. :)jt8
Most married couples, even though they love each other very much in theory, tend to view each other in practice as large teeming flaw colonies, the result being that they get on each other's nerves and regularly erupt into vicious emotional shouting matches over such issues as toaster settings. -- Dave Barry
Money -- I don't need no stinking money !! I've transcended the need for money !!
I do still wear my pants though.
Slight plagerism from the inimitable Mister T
Just came back in -- ran out of diamonds for tonite. Marked up a bunch to cut for morning.
I'll finish the big diamond around the Velux then lay out one on either side of smaller stature and blend in the scales -- and then I'll see what I've got.
A few more in the weak light. I love the shadows and patterns in the lower light.
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Walter,
Looks great, as always.
Have you ever considered varying the angle of the 'diamond' cuts?
Say a row of alternate 45' and 22-1'2' or throwing in some 30' or 15' courses? I think 60' would be too steep, but I have seen different bevels done as well as a course of clipped corners.
Keep up this great instructive, informative, innovative, inspirational...(I give up at 4) thread.
BTW: Glad you had some qulaified help today.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
Yes I have, but thought with all the patterns we have going now --- sq. to diamond L and R, Diamond to scales L and R, scales to sq. L and R and then just the shapes themselves -- I talked myself out of it.
I've got a different design for the walls. Hexagons as it were. Bought some unfading reds and greens that arrived at the trucking terminal a half hour away. Going to pick them up tomorrow evening. I'll use color to make the designs on the wall slates.
Walter
Walter,
Makes sense to me. Thanx for the explanation.
Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
if it pleases you kind sir could you find it in your heart to show pics of how you cut the slate???
Bobby,
I've got a lot of shapes to cut out in the morning and I'll gladly post some of the process.
Walter
thank you i will be looking forward to it
Bobby,
Heres the process from marking out from the pattern and using the elbow grease powered cutter to make the shapes.
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Hmm, didn't realize you used a cutter. Thought you were scoring it and wacking it with a hammer.
jt8
Most married couples, even though they love each other very much in theory, tend to view each other in practice as large teeming flaw colonies, the result being that they get on each other's nerves and regularly erupt into vicious emotional shouting matches over such issues as toaster settings. -- Dave Barry
The only thing wacked with a hammer is my finger !!!
How are the fishscale cuts done?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Dove,
I'll take some pictures of that after lunch.
Walter
thanks do you do it with a hammer and stake to??? i see your slate for marking has holes for the nails that look like they were drilled, Do you drill the nail holes or punch them with your hammer???
Bobby,
Yes I sometimes use the old stake and hammer method -- but far prefer these simple guilotine slate cutters.
These are all salvaged Monson slates with drilled countersunk holes.
They were quarried about 80 miles from my house -- about 90 + years ago.
When we need to add more holes we simply use the slate hammers.
You remember my arsenal of those I'm sure -- just like I remember your 50 hatchets.
Walter
Just a few to show our progress today.
main diamond that encompasses the skylight is done. Two more started - one on each side.
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Just got back from the trucking depot with these new slates to be used for sidewall siding -- to go with lots of Me. black.
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Walter,
Beautiful work! Really appreciate the pics.
Simple question: How many square on a typical slate pallet shown in the photo of your truck?
lek
Lek,
Those were a special order -- 200 pieces each of unfading reds and greens to add some color as patterns for my sidewalls.
Thats for a little later on.
We're going to finish the roof over today and tomorrow -- then take the roof stagings down and see what we've got for desirability !!
Walter
We will finish slating this side tomorrow with luck.
We've got a small diamond above the center diamond and a couple courses of diamond shaped slates just below the ridge.
Once the roof stagings are down we'll be able to get the full monty.
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What weight do you calculate a slate roof to be per square?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Standard thickness such as this 1/4" to 5/16" runs roughly 700 to 800 lbs.
We've lightened these some with our cut off pieces.
Do you like the designs with the patterned slates ?
Indeed I do ! And thanks for the weights. House I grew up in in Ohio originally had a slate roof, lost it to a tornado when I was 4 or 5 (1952-3), replaced with 3-tab.
I remember seeing quite a few slate roofs in the Cleveland area scattered among the older homes and commercial buildings, often with designs worked into the roofing . I remember several that used the red slate for design elements against the black roof. Slate roofing is rare out here in Ore. Older clay tile is more common. There were quite a few Ludiwiece (sp) tile roofs not far from where I live, all dated back to the early 1900's. Most were the trademark "green" of that manufacturer.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Been gone for some of the day so didn't quite finish this side.
A couple shots of the reds and greens for the walls cut into the hexagon pattern. Going to do a layout over the weekend to get a color design worked in . Any one got some good suggestions??
One picture of the top of the center diamond.
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Great work Walt, really first rate! I particularly like the way the diamond cuts blend into the scallops. As for the sides, don't make it too busy, it'll take away the beauty of the roof. Maybe just a band of color 2/3's up from the ground running around the building.
Andrew,
Thanks for checking in with what we're doing.
Check out the "waiting for a crane " thread in photo gallery folder.
Walter See you Tues Morning
Dovetail,
Cuts are done with this simple hand cutter the blade is concave slightly and curved so that you're only removing a small bit at a time.
Once marked out you leverage the cutter arm as you move the slate forward -- turning slightly as you go. Really rather simple once you get the knack of it.
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Ahh, indeed. Thank You .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
the slateman,
Wow do I love your work.. it's nice that you can spend that sort of time doing the differant patterns.. How much would you figure that sort of creativety adds to the costs?
If I were to figure that extra cost it would discourage the creativity !!
theslateman,
actually not!
Not to some of the high end cats around here.. The more exclusive the more rare the better!
If doing handsplit wood shakes is $100 a sq. and slate is $400 a sq. it would tickle their toes if it was another $100 or $200 more per sq.. (I'm guessing completely since I don't have a clue)
I know of one home owner who paid a fortune to have one of the clay roofs put on.. He flew a whole crew up from LA to do his house. Trucked tiles etc. from LA rented a telehandler etc..
Then not far from me is the house that the owner tore off a brand new archectual shingled roof and spent more than a million dollars having slate put on.. expensive is meat and potatoes to these guys..
Frenchy,
This project is my own barn/ garage. The material is salvaged from a job over 10 years ago. I was paid to take it off and install a new archy roof on that building , so basically I got all the slate for hauling it home.
My labor is not billable on my own work. If I were doing it for a client then I would figure the cost , but for now I'm content to wallow in the fun of the project.
Using a different cutter to cut the new, but more fragile greens and red slates.
I've screwed to the bench one of my Parsons Bros. cutters , just like Mike Smith owns, so that it's more stable while cutting these.
A few of the cutter, the reds marked out and the end product.
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Do you have to cut from the back to get the bevel???
Bobby,
Thats correct -- mark the pattern on the backside and cut, that leaves the bevel or chamfer on the front side.
Walter
Walter,
Glad to see you cutting other than 45'. Looks great.
Looking forward to the progress you make.
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 4/26/2008 7:27 pm ET by stevent1
Chuck,
Going to set up our larger cutting table later Monday , after we've cut all the upper courses for both sides of the roof. Then I can lay out a design with colors instead of shapes for the sidewalls.
Thanks for the encouragement !!
Walter
Kudos!
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
A few from this morning before the rain showers showing the patterns and mock ups for the final two ridge slates. They will be 11" and 7 tall respectively.
The longer one will be laid onto a piece of ripped stock a strong 1/8" thick since it's 3" short of full length.
The 7" slate will be laid onto a full thickness lath.
The rafters meet on a 2" x 10" but we'll extend the ridge up because were capping this one with 20 oz. copper cap and "saddles" holding it down.
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A couple more of the salvaged copper bar stock "saddles" and the recycled 20 oz cap that I originally installed on a barn -- then the owner decided a couple years later to take it down to make more room on the lot.
Last shot is some of our patterned slate waiting patiently till morning to be laid.
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Just finishing up on the wings up to the ridge.
Here is a patterned slate marked out and then cut for installation.
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Wonderful work Walter! I'm very impressed with the artistry that you've put into this.The pattern with the fish scale and the diamond... is this a traditional pattern to mix the two? Or are you just having fun there?Keep up the great work. And thanks for sharing.Best,
Steve'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
Steve,
Thank you very much for the kind words.
We're just having fun here -- kinda the seat of the pants design. We'll have the stagings down later today and a hard rain coming tomorrow to wash some of the mud off. Then we can stand back and decide if it has curb appeal !!
Thanks again, Walter
We've opened and cleaned the ridge board off to accept a chamfered 2.5" piece of spruce. We pre drilled and then used long insulation screws and the 18v impact driver to attach each piece.
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A few more for lunchtime.
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Slateman-
Forgive me if this seems like a dumb question, but do you need to account for the weight of the slate (hey....there's a song with that rhyme there somewhere...:) ) when you decide on a slate roof???
Does the roof need to be "beefed up" because of the slate???
http://www.grosshillrentals.com
Recko,
No, you do not need to frame any beefier than you would for a heavy architectural shingle.
Walter
A few last ones for this evening.
Copper ridge cap and copper bar stock saddles salvaged from 2 different structures being used to cap my garage.
A couple with stagings almost down.
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Are those homemade roof brackets???
Bobby,
Yes they are.
Beautiful, Walter!
Any way I could get you to come down to NJ to do a small slate job this summer? ;o)Jeff
Jeff,
Thank you. What type of project have you got? Send me some pics.
Walter
c. 1905 residence
Can you get me your email address?Jeff
Jeff,
[email protected]
I love your ridge, never seen anything like that before.
Thats the way most roofs here were done from 1850 onward.
hey Walter,
I'm no longer lurking. I've spent a little time on the computer this afternoon and have finally learned to navigate this site a little.
To everybody out there, I'm the guy who helped Walt on this project. Boy, do I have stories!
Alfred
Well loosen up those lips then -- don't just sit there !!
Thanks for the 'view' shot (016).
Are you going to paint it yellow now? ;^)
The walls will be done with slate too -- over the course of the Summer.
Gotta tackle the Labrea tar pits on Wed.
The rhyme..from a Peter Himmelman song..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
That's a lot of drills for a roof that gets nailed on!
My arm gets tired just looking at those 18V batteries.
~Splinter, not the man i usta be
Splinter,
One drill to pilot the holes in the ridge extension, impact driver to secure 4" #3 philips roof insulation screws, sawzall for cutting to length and minor sheathing board adjustments at ridge, and 3/16 " carbide for making holes in the 7" upper course.
Besides Dewalt asked me for some pictures of using their stuff.
Walter
Besides Dewalt asked me for some pictures of using their stuff.
Well, now i'm miffed if you get the modeling contract before i do. I suppose my 14.4V stuff just doesn't cut the mustard. *sniff*
I have to shop for tools that fit my smaller hand. I've always appreciated that i could hold onto the Dewalt (and Milwaukee) drills and still reach the trigger.
Yes they've decided to hire me as their cordless model !!
Too bad about that puny 14.4 stuff <g>
Got a few extra diamonds and scallops I thought I'd ship out to you to mix in with the Hardie roof shingles .
Walter
We po' folk make do with what we have. <shuffles feet>This is the first roof i did by myself. I had to replace rotted rafter tails, eave sheathing, and fascia it turned out. The four-day job turned into two weeks and i learned a lot, but it ended up being a nice canvas to paint my 'birds' on and...it didn't leak! <G> I bought the shingles for a couple hundred dollars at a going-out-of-business sale, all the white and black stock, then had to figure a pattern that would use it all up. I laid out every shingle on graph paper and counted them. I had less than a bundle left over!
You're no stranger to putting designs into roofs then.
Looks really good.
Walter,Now that I've seen the far shot, it's gorgeous. I love the subtle diagonals I see in there. It certainly has curb appeal!I'm curious to hear more about your ridge extension. Looks like a chamfered 2x4 to support the cap, yes? And how do you attach the bar stock holding the cap down? Can't imagine that it's the case, but is the weight alone enough to keep it in place?Best,
Steve'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
Steve,
Those saddles are secured into the ridge with 16d galv. nails.
Those were both salvage from 2 different jobs.
I also like the subtle diamond shapes. After the rains today I'll finish taking down the stagings tomorrow and get a good look.
Thanks again, WAlter
Looks fantastic.. am I missing something, where do the coloured slate shingles go? are they on the the roof?
Thanks. Those will be siding later in the Summer. They will all be the same pattern , and designs done with colors.
Walter
OK, you got all the stuff out of the way now? Where are our final roof shots?
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Will have the rest of the stagings down this weekend -- then some final pics.
Walter thank you for maybe my all time fav thread, lookin forward to your siding thread, I saved slates and was thinking about using them as siding. Not sure of all the how to and details yet though
Bobby,
Thank you very much.
I'll be starting the siding using cut slates soon. Going out now to work on cutting more of my green ones.
Walter
Since you asked about the colored slates -- heres a few pictures of an idea for the walls. My pile of cut red slates too.
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Just started laying up some of my sidewall slates.
Using lead coated copper to flash against all door and window trim and corner boards.
One small red pattern between the garage doors -- then more involved once we're over the openings.
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I think that this will be the worlds heaviest wood framed building. ;)
Maybe it will.
Awesome
Is that good or bad ??!!
Walter,
The hexagonal pattern is great looking.
You are creating a 100 year, (life time) maintenance free siding and roof. What are you using for the trim elements? (i.e. window and door trim.)
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
Thats the weak link -- pine , back primed, primed and soon to be top coated.
Figured I'd never get to practice my stone art for anyone else , so I'll practice on my own projects.
Walter
Busy as a bee making honeycomb... <G>
Will the old lines fade away or clean up with a pressure washer, or do you like the witness marks of the slates' earlier incarnation?
I think he hands an old toothbrush to uppity questioners of his craft and has them start cleaning. He is very Zen like that way .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Crest OK? ;^)
I don't find the weathering lines gained over the last 95 years objectionable. In fact I tried to buy the reds and greens as salvage too , but with no luck.
It shows that they've been salvaged which as you've seen from some house pictures has great meaning to me.
Walter
Thanks. I guess i was asking if that was only dirt showing on the lower half of them or if it was a 'feature'.
Yup, old is good. <G>
Who you calling old !!<G>
Thats a subtle sub texture to the patterns and colors that will fade somewhat over time --- like another 95 years !!
Looks like you might get older, but i can't see that you've got time to die anytime this millennium. I'm looking forward to many more of your projects, Walter, and many bionic improvements to your rough frame as time goes by. <snork>I think tonight or tomorrow i might get a little photo thread going for Rez about my hoophouse, which finally put its clothes on a couple days ago. Notchman got inspired to put up one, too, so we've talked of a collaboration on the idea for us back-to-the-landers. Coming soon to a gallery near you!
We're looking forward to your projects too.
Glad someone else is willing to resize , and embed lots of photos.
I'll make some popcorn later and sit back and relax.
Walter
Here are a few of the lead coated copper drip cap -- used on the sides too. Corners ground to brighten the metal so I can solder the corners and the lap in the middle of the doors.
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A few more of starting the slate over the door trim.
Just like on the roof - the starter slate must be kicked up on the bottom to make the starter and first slate lay properly. I'm using slate off cuts instead of wood 'cause it's going on top of the drip cap.
First course of slates over doors to be sq. butts -- then the hexagons above that.
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Just starting the colored pattern over one of the garage doors.
Paying duty calls though and I'm catching the 7 A. M. boat to Vinalhaven on Mon. to work on their Library building.
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Walter,
I know you are recycling some Monson(spelling?) slates and you brought in the red and greens. Did you have to punch some new holes in those?
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Thanx for sharing this most awe worthy thread.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
The sheathing boards are -- you guessed it -- salvaged boards that are nailed on diagonally. Therefore some nail holes line up with boards and some hit a gap making a new hole necessary.
My salvage for the walls came from the a little further East in Brownville, Me. Still really good stone ,but a little easier to punch than the Monson on the roof.
Any extra holes in the reds I will drill to avoid beakage --at 2 bucks a pop.
I've ordered more from another quarry - this batch was less than stellar.
Millwork shop is making a frame for me for sash I removed from a nice home many moons ago - that will be centered in that gable wall.
I might get some more done next weekend - I'm over on Island all week. There may be lobster in my future !!
Best regards, Walter
One of the parts i'm most enjoying is how you transition from one pattern to another.
On that library...are those granite 'bricks'????? Holy cow....
Colleen,
Yes the Vinalhaven Library is all granite blocks with a slate roof.
Other than the wooden trim there is very little maintenance.
We're putting on standing seam panels at the eaves on this building.
As you might suspect I'll post some pictures upon my return next weekend.
I wished I had your talents in the gardening world. Thats a great thread you've got going there. I wished I knew more so I could ask knowledgeable questions.
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I always figure the worst thing that can happen from asking dumb questions is someone asks you to leave so i've never let ignorance be a deterrent to making a pest of myself. Don't you neither. <G>
I love those kicked rafters. If i ever build fresh the place is going to have a swoopy roofline.
Is that a veneer block wall, or how deep do they go? I don't see any bond courses....
You're doing a photo thread of this, surely.... ;^)
I'm not sure if it's veneer or not -- will check on that this week.
Yes I'll have a thread on this project as well.
With Forrest heading for greener pastures we'll all have to pick up the digital slack.
Well hey, don't stop now!
I save up these posts so I can read them all at one time.
Whadda you think yer doing waiting 10days before you revisit the thread anyhoo?
Look at the Vlnalhaven Library thread ! I've got others who actually pay money for me to work for them !!!
Lest anybody think I've done nothing towards my garage project.
I had some nicely shaped sash that came from a house I took down many years ago , but the frame went South on me. I'd planned on using it on the front gable end facing my house.
Took some of my earnings and had a local shop make the frame. I've got to reglaze the sash -- only one broken glass , but the putty's all fried.
Once thats installed I can get back on the slate sidewalling again.
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Walter,
Nice sash!
What kind of wood did they use for the frame? Looks like NE White Pine to me.
I am always glad to see recycled millwork. I could not imagine what that sash would cost in todays dollars.
I am due for a Small Addition update as well.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
Yes they used pine for the frame. I could probably have bought some new unit for what I'll have in this one , but salvage means a lot to me though.
Looking forward to your update on your addition thread.
Walter
Will the old lines fade away or clean up with a pressure washer, or do you like the witness marks of the slates' earlier incarnation?
You asking him to remove the character lines?
Can't see him out there with the Oil of Olay.
:)jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Steve,I aggree. Walter's work is great. His designs are in perfect proportion and scale.I think Walter's work approaches "Museum" quality. ie. The Smthsonian Castle.Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,Both of you do splendid work and belong in the museum.
The work, not you ;)The Smithsonian Castle would indeed be a great place to show off Walter's art.Best,
Steve'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
Chuck,
Thanks , but I'm not in that league -- but the slate is !!
My garage roof is of the same fine rock as the Smithsonian -- from Monson, Maine.
Best regards, Walter
Walter
I never thought I say it but I think I could actually have fun working on a roof like that.
It's cool to see you progress
Doug
My buddy is coming today to help cut and lay - should be more to see tonite.
Some more pictures working on slating the "diamond" around the Velux and adding the fish scales too.
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Some more of our work today.
We're cutting the shapes too so progress is not rapid.
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One last batch before I go out and snap some more lines and do some more lay outs.
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Just finished laying up the front side with slate.
Walter,Excellent work! Thanx for sharing. The diamonds are fantastic. I like the transition to the ridge.Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
It would be great if all my customers were as appreciative.
Thank you very much!!
It's fun to do your own stuff,but duty calls- on to several large projects.
Walter
Man, that oughta put a smile on yer puss every time you come home! Don't you love it when a plan comes together?
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
My puss is grinning from ear to ear.
Only downside is still so much to do to finish.
No rest for the semi- wicked I guess.
Walter
Walter that is SOOOO cool. I see I still have a LOT to learn after seeing how you approach such a job. AWESOME.
BTW, I got the goods today...this'll be fun. I am sending you a check, shut up and cash it!
Glad you got it!
Thanks for the kudos- who knows, we may get to do a job together one of these years. I think we'd both enjoy the work and shared experiences.
Lets see some box gutter action! My big " Project for Spring" starts real soon, and it has a slug of big, wide and deep gutter we'll be doing out of 20 oz. copper.
I have a few pics on my other computer, I was slamming too fast to get much picture action..Ithink Grant has some that he can post...I'll give him a shout.
I'd love to hang some slate along with you, but I doubt I could keep up...you got the groove goin on!
We did 200' of 2' wide box gutter since friday...including all scaffold set up and demo...5 tiers high...ughhh.
Duane,
Slate is a methodical operation. You'd keep up no sweat.
Maybe in the Fall or Winter you guys could use me on some project.
Walter
That would be cool...I even have the job in mind. A conical turret near where we did a big box job in Lex.
That one I do have pics of...tomorrow night I can post em here.
This turret is way high, and I got a feeling we'll get a call from them to Grant..and it would be grand to have ya come down where it's warm in the winter...LOL
You have pics of Boonesborough? Walt was looking for them. I only have two, and they are not so good.
"Only downside is still so much to do to finish."
Bwaah ha ha ha ha! You actually think you'll EVER finish your own house?
Bwaaah ha ha ha ha!
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike,
I hear ya- but a guy can dream can't he???
Walter
Gorgeous work, lovely slate. Getting paid to get it was great, I'll venture.Leon
Thank you. Yes getting all the stone for hauling it makes the labor now to cut all the shapes quite bearable.
Thank you very much.
Walter
well, If ya wanna come to KY ( geeze I hope this the right thread) here is a challange we can do........
and after that pic, is our latest Box Gutter reline...carpentry was minimal, so we made good time. But it always is something. and on this one, the fast, patches by some other roofers, had us tarred in and tearout was a pain. I killed my 20 YO Milwaukee saw, cutting through the shingles and past 3 liners..oh well.
Here ya go I hope.
Yowzaa..big file size...
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Yes, i re trimmed the shingles...LOL
Dale , getting jiggy with the Tapco we hang on the trailer. I own half of the brake..told him. I want the top part. (G).
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Other side looking south...we had to re slope over a major boo-boo, by others, and we made the seams happen at the HIGH point, less chance of standing freezeing leaks, normally we'd not have 3 seams in a short run, but we had to add a transition strip to go up under the shingles, or else we'd have to dig into 36" sheets..and have too much waste, and with the re-slope, and 10' long pans, we felt this was best.
We did bring up the cooker and propane tank, and use fat irons, so soldering went pretty fast, my torch is running bad, and I just can't get it hot enough to sweat the locks as I would like. So the 2lb irons, can really get the solder flowing..I bet we used 30 lbs, on this job.
Check out that turret..see where there was a window?...It needs help. C'mon down!
Holy Moley! Tell us about pic 002sm
Forrest
Duane,
Take pity on us poor dial- uppers next time!!
That turret is extremely similar to the one I did in Bangor a few years ago.
Next Winter would be fine if you guys want it. A LOT of work on that unit.
Walter
Sorry Walter, somethings are goofy with my new internet, besides my self..I dunno what happened.
MAn is that cool or what?
I ask, how would you stage it?
I mean,If you are in,I'll knock on the door.
Crazy Duane.
Well, it needs Grant, me , Dale and Walter. About 40' up..our boom can't quite get to it..we tried one day.
Historical district of Lex, KY. So, all must be as was. I see failing slate and tight quarters, and nose bleeds LOL.
Nah, its a good un for us, that is what we need to keep us from going crazy, hanging Kgutter week after week, or half round, or a box rebuild....If I am goingto keep doingthis work for the next 10 yrs. or so, I want THESE jobs.
I moved here for a reason that I still don't comprehend, I had a taste of the "fun stuff" and now I am hooked..like an addict on your attic, I want more.
Dang if that don't sound like a slogan, "addict on your attic"...nah, connotation rules, and some bee bop, would think my high, came from the wrong place.
Um, I saw that turddet from where I first landed in KY, I lived across the alley...another job was going on nearby, all copper..wayyyyycool. It was Grant, I knew NO one around here..I was on BT and found that Grant was nearby, I called him, or whatever, and bought lead and copper from him..then he offered me a gig doinga wood roof..next thing I knew, I am doing this, 3 yrs later..still.
Now I got the bug..I am gonna be 47 in two mos., I really, really want these types of jobs, while I can. It is as additctive as a tattoo..once ya get high, ground gutter sucks.
Call me crazy, call me a cab, it don't matter, I shelved a career in wood working for this, and by gadfly, I am taking it all the way.
Life ain't so short, but consternation is forever.
Oh, that turret...It speakes loud to me, it wants me, to help it..and I will.
Hey Duane, where is that house? I'm not familiar with it?http://grantlogan.net/
Two doors towards Broadway from Hussy. Get on it, it needs us. LOL
I think it was for sale, or just sold...??????
I'll chase it, if you don't wanna..looks like a shoe-in.
I know you don't "sell" jobs, you got enough going on..with repeats, but Grant, I want this one...call me crazy, but I got a feeling.
Grant,
My copper talents pale by comparison to yours !!
Every body has a niche to fill. I don't get stoned any more , but I'm one with stone all day.
Thank you very much . it's always great to get compliments from those whose work you admire so much !!
Walter -- feeling a little tuckered but quite contented.