Or at least I think it is polyurethane…
Got a case of “GE Special Projects Siding-Seal”. The stuff is sticky as heck, cures like rubber, is white and paintable. Seems like really good stuff but is very hard to work with: ie, hard to apply and/or smooth out.
Suggestions?
I searched the web and could not find a description of the product and all that fine print on the tube doesn’t really say exactly what it is. Tube says it can be applied between 10 – 120 degrees F. Only clue to it’s actual content might be that the caution warning says that it releases methanol during application and cure.
TIA,
Matt
Replies
wet yur finger or tooling with paint thinner...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Yeah, if its that sticky, its probably poly. Paint thinner, or any solvent that is oily - but hey, mineral spirits is cheap. The tube needs to be kinda warm if you don't want to get a Popeye arm squishin it out of the tube. At 100 in the summer it will just run, at 40, good luck. In cooler weather, I let it heat up on the dash on the defroster, or sometimes I've even put it in the HO's microwave for 15 sec.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
did just that....
had to get a new nuker...
webt the 10 minet button and not the 10 seacond...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Hmm , cauking creme on anything . Kinda sounds good.
What happens in 10 minutes , huh? Yer killin me here.
Edited 3/5/2005 9:09 am ET by TIMMOONEY52
the tube of caulk got 10 minutes and not 10 seconds...
the rest is history...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
You too huh?
I turned a carving mallet outta dogwood once..read in FWW that you can dry wood in a micro. I wound up buying all new curtains and almost killed the cats ..white , acrid smoke..filled the house as the inside of the mallet glowed cherry red...
New nuker, and since then a new wife too..it was a bad day.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Sell your cleverness, Purchase Bewilderment"...Rumi
I used some GE that the label said was a co-polymer. Forgot what the name was.
Tried the GE site and did not find much.
Tried again on yours. Still not much,, but here are a few links.
It showed up in an TOH resources page.
Adhesives & Sealants
Products:
GE400 Plus
GE XST eXtreme Silicone
GE Kitchen & Bath Silicone II
GE Kitchen & Bath Max 5000
GE Siding-Seal
Manufacturer:
GE
Stephen Peace
tel. 704-655-2060
fax. 704-655-2000
[email protected]
http://www.AskGESA.com
Then looking on the ge site 3/4's of it does not work.
Found this page for Special Project caulks. But it is very generic.
http://www.gesealants.com/sealants/diy/portfolio/acrylics/mdproject.shtml
And this one is the PR for siding-seal, but again it doesn't say anything.
http://www.gesealants.com/sealants/diy/whatsnew/pressreleases/siding.shtml
And I started at the Home and then tried the link for contractors and got here
http://www.gesilicones.com/NASApp/siliconeselector/SSiliconeSelectorHome
Now none of those link get me anywhere. And a search on the Keyword gave me an error.
But I see that they have an a Ask Button and Feedback Button so you might try those.
But I tried siding-seal in the MDS search.
That got me GE61110 12C-Singe SEal-CGE (0.63 lb) Download the MDS for that show that it has
"RESIN
68132-00-3 10-30 NE NE NE NE NE
STYRENE-ETHYLENE/BUTYLENE-STYRENE-
BLOCK COPOLYMER
66070-58-4 10-30 NE NE NE NE NE
STYRENE-ETHYLENE/PROPYLENE COPOLYMR
68648-89-5 5-10 NE NE NE NE NE"
So it is some kind of co-polymer sealant.
A google on copolymer sealant leads to this site.
http://www.geocelusa.com/php/oic/product.php?prdb_product_id=15
Which *MIGHT* be similar.
And they do have tecnical data.
Thanks Bill - I found most of those links when I first started searching. None is what I have except that one "sales crap" description that doesn't actually tell what the product is. Typical... The product must be new. I also wondered if what I have is a polymer but to tell you the truth, I have no idea what a polymer is, much less a copolymer... Some kind of plastic derivitive I'm guessing. I'll try the paint thinner on the finger... Yes it's hard as heck to get out of the tube when it's cold. I've been keeping it in the house to keep it warm. Matt
I haven't used that one, but I'm thinking that winter temps are probably you biggest problem. As soon as you squeeze out a bead long enough to tool dopwn, the surface has been exposed to the cold long enoughto stiffen up whilethe inside of said bead is still more fluid. That makes for a cottage cheese texture when you try to tool.
Right?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
What about the part number for the MSDS? Does that match what you have."The product must be new."No, that PR was dated 2002. And I went through the samething last summer.No GE just has there broswer up ther a$$ on this buiness line. Along with the fact that they bought out MD (Mackelberg -Ducan sp?) line of caulk so you see both names on the site to make things even more confusings.You might want to try the phone numbers or the feedback/email links. If you do let me know what you find." I have no idea what a polymer "Well a polymer is a linked monomer. Now aren't you glad you ask <G>?I am sure that there are more technical definitions, I think based on the number of carbon hydrogen bonds. But basically simple chemical compound that undergoes a reaction (trigger by a catalylist, air, heat, etc) where the simple individual bits cross link and form big compounds.Happens many places. Two verry common ones is the curving of "boiled" linseed oil and the curing of varnish.And copolymers just means that there are two polymers.But I think that in the caulk and sealant world that is a code word for a particular group of polymers. A google will find a number of coplymer sealants. And there are also tripolymer sealants.
Did you end up contacting GE?Did you find out anything.
No - I did not contact GE. We had a 70 degree day and the stuff went on much easier - about like silicone - so it was still a mess to work with, but flowed much better. I came to the conclusion that the stuff is good for situations where an absolute weatherproof seal is required, but appearance is a little less important.
BTW - I'm still not convinced the stuff is actually polyurethane. When it dries, it is very rubbery. The polyurethane I worked with before was kinda hard when it dried.
Matt
Edited 3/15/2005 6:58 pm ET by DIRISHINME
I bought a couple of tooling blades. A little practice, both with the size of the bead and the tool, gets a pretty good finish. You can go over the bead a number of times, even as it sets and the blade forces the bead smooth. No messy fingers.
Albion, yeah, they make the best caulk guns... Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Your wife is gonna have your hide when she finds out that you are using her butter knives for caulking... ;-)
butter knives.... hey, wait a minute... ;-)
Matt
"BTW - I'm still not convinced the stuff is actually polyurethane. When it dries, it is very rubbery. The polyurethane I worked with before was kinda hard when it dried."BTW, I always said that most likely was no polyurethane, but a co-oplymer.
It sounds like it is the same caulking that you use for hardie siding butt joints. You get use to it but its a pain when your use to latex based caulking. Dap makes a hardie caulking called weather flex (sidewinder at some places). Same type of stuff, temp range of -30 to 120, paintable, waterproof, etc.
http://www.dap.com/retail/retail_detail.cfm?catid=1&subcatid=3&prodhdrid=386
I had a problem with GE's Silcone 2 sealant. Two days later, it could still be manipulated as thought it was just applied. After some major research on the site, I found out that GE said it if didn't cure in 24 hours, it would never cure. a chemical in the sealant loses potency over time- the part of it which makes this sealant cure. This was before they started stamping expiration dates on their tubes.I wanted to know more. Anyhow, I used all the apropriate routes to contact GE, ask about this problem, etc. NO RESPONSE. NOTHING. Another inquiry sent to GE, still NOTHING. Meanwhile, I have a customer on the ropes and I don't know what to say now except "OK, I'll reinstall the sink". Told GE this, still no response. I even registered at their site and all, but no response came. IMO, GE is a bad manufacturer of silicone. I will never use their product if I have a choise. Bad form, GE. Or did I miss something? I'm a newbie, but GE shouldn't care who's buying their products, right?
A good caulk gun makes all the difference in the world.
Try the "Cox" brand, made in England. They run about $35 at the local tool emporium here. It will squeeze out any caulk that isn't frozen and the bead is easy to control because the trigger works nicely. No ratchet mechanisim, let off the trigger and pop the thumb release, caulk stops flowing. Plenty of leverage, no need to squeeze hard.
There is no comparison to the $5 Chinese junk sold at the local Big Box Store.
>>> Try the "Cox" brand, made in England.
I'll second that, I have a couple of the small ones and one of the magnums, as well as 1/2 dozen of the cheapies. Those last ones don't see any use since I discovered the better ones. You get what you pay for . You'll find tehm at the Depot.
Back on the poly subject, I used the PL brand on a dozen windows this past summer, by the same folks that make the PL premium glue. Great stuff, tools like butter and sticks to anythin, but I also didn't have the cold temp issue. Comes in a couple different colors too...
Don'y know if this will work, but you might try it on a test stip you makeup.
For butyl caulks, I mix dish washing liquid in a coffee can of water. Use a generous squirt in about a 1/4 to 1/3 of a 1 lb can of water. Then use a small nylon paint brush dipped in the soapy water to tool the bead. With a little practice you can slick up a bead in one pass. Butyl won't stick to the soapy mix on the brush, and you keep your fingers out of the sticky stuff.
If you are going to paint over it, be sure to rinse the joint after it has cured.
I use this a lot on the brick to metal intersection of alum. store fronts and windows.
Dave
PL makes white polyurethane caulk for windows, doors etc. and it is paintable. I think you need to let it cure for something like 3-7 days before painting. It is great stuff, and as you said, very sticky and thick.
Warm it up on your dash or on a heating duct and use a quality caulk gun.
I tool it with my fingers using latex or stronger gloves and mineral spirits. Use lots of paper towels to wipe off the caulk buildup from the gloves. Use foam backer rods on thick cracks.
This caulk is fantastic and I would spec it on the exterior for any windows and doors, but only if the installer knows how to work with the caulk. In addition to being flexible and paintable, it has high abrasion resistance (thresholds) and it is an adhesive.
Billy
I've mentioned/suggested this before here a couple of times and will do so again.
If it's the stiffness of the caulk that's contributing to your problems..........make yourself a little heated box for your caulk. Mine is plywood with carpet lining, but you could make up a temporary deal with just some rigid foam and some duct or foil tape. Make a hinged lid or just weight a loose lid down with a brick or something) Place a thermostat and a hair dryer (safer maybe than)...... or heat gun inside (type of thermostat for a space heater...... you just plug the cord into the thermostat) Set the thermo for around 100F or so. Cut the toes out of a couple old socks (if they have any toe area left <G>.......and slide those over the tube in the gun to extend working time. Swap tubes in and out of the box as needs be.
Make the box big enough so that you can avoid having the tip of the dryer too close to the tubes. Build it once and you're ready to rock whenever you have to caulk in cold weather. Mine rides in the truck at all times because it does double duty as a storage box for handsaws, halogen light stand and such.
You might be able to forego the thermostat if you don't have one or don't wish to purchase by cracking the lid of the box just enough to control the temp level inside. Too much dinkin' around for me though. Thermostat is reliable and handy.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 3/5/2005 11:08 am ET by GOLDHILLER