Would you remove old 30# roofing felt?
BilljustBill
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Would you have the roofing company remove the old 30# roofing felt before laying new 30# felt?
In valleys, I’ve asked for all new flashing, plus adding ice and water shield to the same zones. Should the roofing company tear off the old metal and felt so the 1×6 decking shows?
Which goes first 20″ valley metal or the ice and water shield?
Thank you for your help, truly!!
Bill
Replies
Will there be open or closed valleys?
Best to remove everything to the sheathing before the new install.
You can renail any missed rafters , inspect for rot, and ensure a quality job.
It's their choice according to conditions they find when they do the tear-off. all sorts of variable apply for whether to tear all the way to decking or to leave the old underlay.
"Which goes first 20" valley metal or the ice and water shield?"
Do you want exposed metal valley or is the metal for re-inforcing a woven valley?
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 7/27/2008 4:18 pm ET by Piffin
Will there be open or closed valleys?
Theslateman & Piffin,
All valleys will be closed.
Once, when the house was reroofed, the old felt looked really good, so when they asked me that and I went up for a look, I said leave it and put the new felt over it....
From the sorry work of decking and shingling done in January on my 16'x32' shed, I'm going to have done correctly this time... "No money until I'M HAPPY and I'M going to VIDEO the tear-off and the new company's workman ship....
What should 5/8" decking be nailed down with?
Thank you both,
Bill
I use eight penny nails - 2-1/4" from the gunIn Texas, you have real man sized wind, so I don't know if you can use D-clip nails or if it has to be full round heads or not.I hope nobody comes along and says 2"x1/2" staples are fine.
I'd have to shoot him then and I'm too tired to be burying any bodies tonight.( 'course Tom could send his weird buzzards up to take care of that problem.)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Are you adding a layer of sheeting to whats already there?
8d nails if one layer 10d if you're going through old boards with another sheet.
Others may think leaving the felt on is o. k. but I can't think of one reason to do it.
Are you adding a layer of sheeting to whats already there?
No, the shed's decking is new, but was almost a hack job from the sorry roofing company from Mineral Wells, Texas. I saw a box of 8d brights and later thought that they used them on every place on the roof decking.
Which brings me to another question about the house decking. Built in 1958, the 1x6 decking has had about 5 or 6 new roofs. Would adding 1/2" CDX to this older decking help the roof or would the weight be a problem. Rafters are on 24" centers.
Thanks,
Bill
I like to add sheat goods over that kind of decking to smooth out the surface and cover all the old splits and knotholes. Plus, I can shingle faster over a good smooth solid surface than an old board one that is bouncing and splintering under the impact of my hammer.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
And you don't have to worry about the nails missing the sheathing, and going into the gaps between the boards.
One old roofer I knew would only use guns on roofs he was positive was sheathed with plywood; on board sheathing, he hand nailed so he could feel if the nails hit something solid.
That right there is why it is faster to shingle a sheathed roof than a boarded one.. You might end up using nearly twice as many roof nails on a boarded roof
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks fellows,
The one thing that hasn't been talked about is the added weight of the 1/2" CDX and a 40yr shingle to boot... Would 3/8" do the same thing, but be lighter and some less costs?
No problems here in North Central Texas with ice damning in my 30 years of winters here.
I'm going back with GAF/Elk 40 year impact resistant shingles. It shows that they come 4 bundles to the square. The sales rep. says there's a shortage of 20 year shingles, plus I need an Impact resistant ridge shingle to match the quality of the upgraded 40yr shingle. He says the roofing Mfg. know of the 20yr shortage and they are selling the ridge shingle at a discount of $3 a foot for a ridge shingle called "Seal-a-Ridge". Is this added expense fair or should the bid of $201.00 a square cover this ridge shingle cost?
"LON Smith" roofing has given the current estimate, and they take Master Card....which gives me the reward points and another avenue to help get something corrected should there be a problem...
Your insight is so helpful,
Bill
Edited 7/27/2008 9:47 pm ET by BilljustBill
Edited 7/27/2008 9:57 pm ET by BilljustBill
I can't answer the cost questions. Not sure that I understand. Ridge is unlikely to ever leak even if it wears out first. Partly because if faces up and water is running away from it, and partly because the shingles lap over the ridge anyways ( well, unless you are using a ridge vent material. caught myself in a senior moment there.)The added weight would only be something like one pound per sq ft. I don't know what your roof engineering is, but given little or no snow load, I doubt there is any problem, with that. For comparison, you probably have a good 25-40 live load capacity already, but that is a lot of assumption.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I can't answer the cost questions. Not sure that I understand. Ridge is unlikely to ever leak even if it wears out first.
Should I have to pay for a ridge shingle? Does an Impact resistant shingle need an upgraded or upcharged ridge shingle?
Is $3 a foot for "Seal-a-Ridge" ridge shingles a charge that should be covered when buying a 40 yr shingle? Each year, I'll get $400 a year off my homeowners insurance to have the impact resistant shingles on the house and shed, and payback for their added cost is 6 years...
Should I have to pay for a ridge shingle?
Of course you have to pay for it. But I guess you're asking if you have to pay extra. What does your contract or proposal say? You need to ask your contractor this.
Does an Impact resistant shingle need an upgraded or upcharged ridge shingle?
There is a hip & ridge accessory made for dimensional/premium shingles. For warranty purposes, it is to be used per manufacturer's instructions. Go to your shingle manufacturer's website and read the installation instructions.http://grantlogan.net
.......nature abhors a vacuum cleaner.....
It looks like CU understood the question better - and answered it for you
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"I can't think of one reason to do it."I can.Old sheathing can be very rough with splinters, checking, and old nails. I have torn off a double ply of 30# and found that lots of nail heads and bent nails from old 4D for cedar shingles were under it that needed to be cleaned up or cushioned by that double 30# to prevent the stuff from wearing out the new shingles from the back side.
Other times, it was very heavily nailed with the old roof nails with that head that was about 3/4" diameter that would have made it as hard to remove as a full layer of shingles. So if fairly intact it smooths the sheathing, and if no water sign shows, and no other sign of rot or under structured, it can be left.But then most of the time, the underlay sheet is only 15# and tears up easier than it can be left.That is why I started out saying there is plenty reasons both sides and the roofers should have the option either or according to actual conditions. There is no one hard and fast rule.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Paul,
I was speaking about this house in particular - built in 1958. I'm sure it was never roofed with cedars and 4d nails.
You may have different ideas for different roofs , but I always like to get down to the boards so that renailing as needed can be done or replacement where required.
So yes I do have a hard and fast set of rules I follow.
In your case of the 4d nails I'd add a second layer of 30 lb. if needed. I can't imagine that in your case it was whole after stripping anyway.
Walter
I don't feel that strongly about taking the felt off of the field area, but the "old" valley flashing should definitely be removed to the sheathing, ice membrane installed THEN the new metal valley flashing. The only down side to the old felt might be protruding nails, and come to think of it it's tough to see how the old felt stayed in place with shingle removal.
I have seen just as many situations where I would rather see the old valley metal left in place to smooth over bad carpentry there, Sometimes the vally cuts in the sheathing is so bad it would tear the Ice and Water there. If the metal is clean, it smooths things.ever read the wrapper on shingles where it explains that ANY gaps in the sheathing more than 3/8" should be patched with metal before anything else?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I went into that post with the closed mind set of OPEN Valley maybe even with a standing seam, copper of course. Personally can't stand shingled valleys, too much of the same material, and they HOLD onto what ever gets into them; but then Ma'm everything is personal taste. That last line is for my client base, not towards you.
Edited 7/27/2008 7:41 pm ET by Pelipeth
When I mentioned leaving th eold metal for support it was for supporting the new ice and water, nothing else, before all the new valley and whatever material he will be roofing with.The point being that it often has value if left in place.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Point well taken.
Hmm.
I guess you dont need to ice and water shield the lower 3' of roof down in texas for ice damming?
I like Piffins idear re. leaving it if it helps smooth out the rough 1x6. That is a pain in the butt sweeping, banging nails, and then finding more nails when rolling out the new felt.
Better to have 2 layers of felt than none (which I have seen more than I care to mention)
I'd encourage you to talk to the contractor and tell him your concerns over the last job. I believe I do nice work and my clients refer me and trust me, but I dont think I would want the owner down on the ground with a video camera. It would just bother me. I would be concerned about the distraction for my crew (and no one needs distraction when they are on a roof)
Now if you want to climb up the ladder every once in a while and talk to us and ask how things are goin and ask what we see good and bad, then I would take the time to explain what we are doing and what I am seeing. My guys would take a 5 minute break so there would not be banging goin on while you and I were talking, etc.
It's just a different and less intimidating style of making sure you get what you want.
If you see something you dont care for, point it out and explain your position.
I hope you got referrals etc. And I am guessing that the crew might be of different ethnic backround so make sure someone on the job speaks clear english.
Good luck