Excavator I’ve used periodically since 98 without any problem is brought on site again to fix hurricane damage and given money for move-in, fuel, material to be hauled in (retaining wall block). Does work. Gets money for the next batch of material ($7,500). Never shows up again except to remove equipment from site. No material delivery, no further work. Says he used money to pay other bills…doctor, hospital, etc. Ex-wife says he bought a big-screen tv. All is in writing, he agrees he owes it, but skips meetings to arrange payment. Ducks phone calls.
Lawyer looks into it. Finds that he had filed for bankruptcy 6 months prior. This wouldn’t be covered by the bankruptcy proceedings, but he doesn’t have any assets to use for repayment, it seems.
Cop I know says this sounds like either fraud or theft by deception.
Lawyer says suit will likely be pointless, that he won’t threaten criminal action, and to just drop it. NC small claims is 4k limit and the state has a bad record of follow-up and collection.
What would you do?
Replies
I remember when this first came up a month or so ago.
If he did in fact buy a big screen tv and other stuff with your money after the bankruptcy, then that would pi$$ me off and I would go for his throat. Whatever you can do to make his life miserable. Can you take possession of any of the equipment?
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
I'd have him pinched... not that I am the vindictive type as much as I believe that if that's how he conducts himself he's going to just keep doing so until someone has him nailed.
If he bought the big screen TV after filing bankruptcy, take the TV.
It's a gamble, but what if you sue him for the money plus attorney fees, win a judgement, and then ask the court to award you his assets and any future income he has? Since he was recently bankrupt, he can't do it again soon (right? wrong?) and as far as I know you can have a judgement enforced to the point that they will levy his bank accounts and garnish any wages that employers pay him. Does he have a house? car? truck? excavator? anything?
If you go after it aggressively he may end up paying you to get you to stop. Or not.
I agree with the lawyer that a civil suit is a waste of time and money. It's not that you won't win, or that you can't attach assets and garnish wages into the future, but that you're throwing good money after bad.
Make a criminal complaint with your local DA. They'll decide whether they'll take the case and what they'll charge. And restitution can be part of the sentence. What the guy did, taking money with no intention of using it for the purpose intended and converting it to his own use, is a crime. Stop him, and make it work for you.
SHG
Thank you.
Whats with the big screen TV's?
I went with a bud of mine to his tenants apartment............she's 3 months back, and she's got a TV I wouldn't buy IF I could afford it !!
Huh?
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
My excavator guy here has the winter town snowplowing contract, which keeps him on rthe road at all hours of the night. He says that he can see the blue glow of theTV screen showing through the windows of everyone who is unemployed all night long
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I got a good laf outta that!
He shut her heat and hot water off...........he told me; "she can wash her ----- with cold water!!
She can afford to go out drinkin, but can't make the rent.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
it's just the allocation of scarce resources. some people can live that way. some people can't.
What does she now have to wash in cold water? I can't get my work clothes clean unless I use hot...poor girl.
I got the biggest damn TV they make and I go to sleep in front of it almost every night. If half time doesn't get me, the first long time out after half time does. My wife usually wakes me up about 4AM and asks me if I'm still watching TV. My usual reply is "No, it's watching me."I see dumb people.
That's about what I was thinking, from a practical POV, but in the meantime, Cloud best get used to not having that moola in his own account. it's gone on a loooong trip...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>> ... taking money with no intention of using it for the purpose intended ...I'd enjoy watching a prosecutor try to demonstrate to a jury what the contractor's intentions were at the time he took the money.
maybe you can get him under one of the hurricane laws against shady contractor. state DA. if not remember knee caps.
Good point. Even if the guy doesn't have any assets that are reachable by the bankruptcy court or by a civil judgement, he might still have things he's willing to sell to avoid grievous bodily injury.Or take the loan shark approach. Carry the principal forever as long as he pays 1% a week on the unpaid balance.
Intent, or mens rea, is an element of many crimes. Intent is proven through conduct, not by trying to peak into people's minds. Not really as hard to prove as one might think.
Just a thought or 2 -
You say small claims are limited to $4,000.
Does that mean you can't CLAIM anything over $4,000, or you just can't get a JUDGEMENT over that amount?
Could you maybe say he did PART of the work, but owes you $4,000 now?
with small claims, the most you can claim and/or get in a judgment is the jurisdictional limit. But by doing so, you are precluded from trying to get the balance any other way. Also, it would probably impact on any criminal restitution award, which is better because it's usually collected for you by the probation department upon pain of being violated.
And once you get a small claims judgment, it's up to you to collect if the judgment debtor doesn't pay. You can garnish wages, or a bank account, or any debt owed the judgment debtor you're aware of. But most people like this are judgment proof, and you can't get blood from a stone. If matters don't work with the DA, then small claims is a viable alternative and you get as much of a judgment as you can. But it's usually more of a moral victory unless there's something to go after.
My reason for bringing that up was that the amount of the claim wasn't a whole lot more than the $4,000 limit. I figured he might save more than the difference in attorney's fees. But I understand what you're saying - You can't get blood out of a turnip. But maybe he could get the turnip.(-:
If a motorist cuts you off, just turn the other cheek. Nothing gets the message across like a good mooning.
it wasn't a bad idea. he'll waste a day or two (or evening, as the case may be) going to small claims, but at least it won't cost attorney's fees. but the most effective way is to make the system work for you. when you're the victim of a crime, and have a viable alternative, go for it. and more importantly, the guy's a crook and that's something that shouldn't be ignored.
Glad to hea my idea was at least HALF right. That's more than I generally get from DW.(-:
Dinner is ready when the smoke alarm goes off.
I've never met a quadriplegic who could operate heavy equipment.
My atty said the DA wouldn't give a damn about this, that it happens all the time, and they're only interested in crack and other drug crimes. Said my best bet to prevent it in the future for other people is reporting it to the BBB.
So I called the DA and asked their interest. They said a police report had to be filed first. I asked if it was the kind of thing they ever paid attention to or if they only cared about the drug arrests. She said, "If there's a crime, then we care about it."
Called the police and filed a report. They said an investigator would follow up within a few days.
That's where it stands.
One thing to keep in mind about the police and prosecutor is, the more you care, the more they care.
It helps a lot if it's a good slam dunk case but if you show the proper interest, and follow up in a professional way, you may be surprised at their interest.
Good luck.
"Affairs on the border cannot be judged by standards that hold elsewhere."
One thing to keep in mind about the police and prosecutor is, the more you care, the more they care.
Absolutely true. Make friends with the cop who takes the complaint. Tell him clearly and unemotionally why this is worth his time. Convince the cop and he'll be your advocate. Same with the assistant who catches the case. There are a million crimes in the big city, but you can make yours count.
I've been hired numerous times by people who have been the victim of an economic crime and couldn't get the time of day from police or prosecutors. It's not that they don't care about crime, but that they focus on the body gushing the most blood.
The police and prosecutors are results oriented just like everyone else. If a solid slam dunk case walks in and they can get an arrest/conviction out of it they'll take it.
The cases they pass on are those where it's hard to tell who the 'good guy' really is.
"Affairs on the border cannot be judged by standards that hold elsewhere."
Thanks for the suggestion. I shall do my best to heed it.