Took some pix today – client (in my CPA’s office) wants her house –
To have the same porch roof
as this house –
Except with a conical hipped roof.
Forrest – thinking over the holidays, while some other clients get their financing in order
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Replies
I don't think it would work well
What, is it snowing there?!
I agree - gotta' tone it down a bit and lose the balustrade.
Forrest
It's not snowing right now, expecting some soon. Everything's ice right now
Except with a conical hipped roof.
Maybe she means a comical hipped roof.
<a comical hipped roof >
LOL! Kinda' Disney-esque?
Forrest
I'm thinking that she didn't mean exactly the same porch.
Lose the cheese and fluff. Standard posts.
Roof...
Imagine a short ice cream cone. Very short. No, even shorter than that. Yeah... veeeeeery short.
Upside down. Cut it in half, vertically.
Now put that on top of the flat half circle porch roof.
Slide that up against the existing roof.
Now put a beam straight across from the top of this upside down, half cone, to the existing roof.
Now, raise the house side of that beam until you have a pleasing angle, once you hip roof from that point. Maybe matching the pitch of the rest of the roof.
Do that to the other porch, and it would look comical.
On her house, though, I think it could be pulled off.
Is of his own opinion, still.
Yep, that's kinda what I'm thinking - main roof is about 9/12, so maybe I'll go that pitch. Ridge back to the main roof
Forrest
My personal opinion is the her front porch is to small for something that "heavy"
I could see two half columns against the house, two additional columns to bear the weight and frame the front door and a conical roof.
anyway, good luck, looks like a tough one.
<I could see two half columns against the house, two additional columns to bear the weight and frame the front door>
Good plan - likely the direction I'll take.
Forrest
Hey - anybody out there know if guttering can go around that curve? looks like 20-30' radius. It's a seamless, stock color now
Anyone?
Bueler?
Forrest
anybody out there know if guttering can go around that curve?
I've got my hand up.
Oooh, oooh, call on me.
Look, look, over here.http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
You can get it radiused for mucho bucks (IIRC, it was something like $75/ft and it had to be soldered down the center - it comes in a front and back piece in 7' lengths - the place I last priced it was in or around Atlanta) or do like we normally do and segment it. It's probably just as cheap to do it with copper (so the many joints can be soldered rather than caulked) and paint it than with aluminum. If done right, it looks pretty darn good.http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
Wonder if it's worth putting in a recessed guttering system in the roof? Could run the downspouts inside the columns.
Forrest
Wonder if it's worth putting in a recessed guttering system in the roof? Could run the downspouts inside the columns.
Done that, too. Probably cheaper, but you've still got curved molding to deal with at the roof edge. Also, more than likely, you're going to have to deal with the water runoff from the roof plane above the new porch with the porch gutter system. With a built-in gutter you can build the grade into it. With a radiused hanging gutter, it needs to be flat or nearly flat for cosmetics which reduces it's effective size.http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
I have done the down spout in the column with good and bad results. The snow melts because the roof is loosing heat. The columns are cold and the water then refreezes as it comes down the down spout. I would insulate the down spout in the column. Make sure the water is directed away from the house below the frost line. This will allow heat to radiate back up the down spout. and finally install a heat tape that turns on below a certain temp and feed it down the pipe for safety. I have had columns freeze and break apart. Jay
yes ... seeyou can do that gutteringMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Wonder if he'll mail it?
Forrest
Why not segment the cone instead of making it round? (can't think of the geometric term for that type of a cone) Say five segments, last ones on each side blend into the roofs going back to the house. Gutters are a breeze then .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Like this http://ah.bfn.org/a/DCTNRY/h/hex.html
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
(can't think of the geometric term for that type of a cone)
cone
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Sounds like a Queen Anne Victorian.
The pick is bad but the link is good.
View Image
http://architecture.about.com/cs/housestyles/a/queenanne.htm
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Well, you could always get some inspiration from this building when you're in town.
http://www.whitehousemuseum.org/special/renovation-1948.htm
Some fun construction photos there, as well as architectural drawings. I'm pretty sure the 'fenced' off elevator shaft wouldn't pass muster today, eh?
I can visualize that working.
While waitiong for the second photo to load, I was thinking, "Yeah, OK there is definitely a dormer roof section missing that somebody forgot, then I see the half round steps and thing why not mimic that shape above and make it blend somehow..."
So the second hous ep ops up and it has a hint of what I was thinking.
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Excellence is its own reward!
She's got a French chatteau and wants a Federal porch? Yuck.
She needs a squat tower entry. Square posts, solid wood corbels, curved lintel.
<She's got a French chatteau and wants a Federal porch?>Yep, that's the issue!Told her she had a French-Style house - "Huh?"Forrest
Mini-hijack: I keep forgetting to send you pics I took of a place in Portland, OR that looks like your Munsters house--do you know the house I'm talking about? Are you still working on that project?
Back to your thread: It's fun working with style-challenged people. Have you tried telling her that her house is sort of "business casual" and the porch she likes is "black tie formal?" Women think of things in terms of clothes...kind of like we see things in terms of cars...
Mike, I think sometimes too much knowledge causes problems.As I was pondering McDesigns design, I was envisioning the various round conical roofs and thinking about what size would be a good fit. I never gave it a thought that she had a french style because I don't know the different versions. Your knowldege seems to prohibit you from exploring the possibility. My style would be trial and error until I had something up there that she liked. It doesn't matter if I like it or not.French Scmench. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I would counter that by saying that knowing the basics of different traditional styles makes it easier for me to go through my mental library of images until I "see" one or several that are appropriate for the house.
I can frame by trial and error too, but it's faster when you have systems.
;-)
Edit to add: if you noticed the picture of the porch the client wanted, it has a balustrade around the flat roof and classical columns. Even if you don't know that her house is "French" style, you know that the porch she wants doesn't fit on the house she has.
Knowing her house is French style is just a shorthand way of summing up a bunch of design elements. I could have said, "she has a low-eave, high-pitch hip roof with small pane windows, fake stone blocks on the corner, and relatively simple details, and wants a gaudy fake ornated porch much grander than the rest of the house?"
Edited 12/27/2007 6:42 am ET by Mike_Maines
"I could have said, "she has a low-eave, high-pitch hip roof with small pane windows, fake stone blocks on the corner, and relatively simple details, and wants a gaudy fake ornated porch much grander than the rest of the house?""And I would say: Okay....what's the problem? She wants something to add a little pizzazz. I don't see how it is wrong unless it's done to the wrong scale. You're imagining something grand and I'm imagining something along the lines of the picture but subdued enough to fit in. Wouldn't the "fake stone blocks" on the corners give her carte blanch to do anything? I think I just don't understand how the millions of different homeowners can satisfy the "educated" stylists that could certainly find fault with every design. Design is personal. There are people who rave over Frank Loyyd Wright designs and I'd bulldoze every one that I've ever seen. I don't dispute his skill, I just hate his style. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You mean Frank Loyyd Always Wright. His skill wasn't all that either.
I couldn't agree more. No student of architecture here, but did ya ever see anything of his that was still standing proud on its own original merits.
I'm sure such structures exist, I've just not read about them yet.Live in the solution, not the problem.
yeah, and most of his roofs leaked, but his ideas where good
i like it! just don't forget the gargoyles...
Now we're getting somewhere. Add another layer on the cake and make it a tower and i think we're done. ~Splintie, shutting up now before Forrest deletes all his attachments
Man, that's just freakin' great! I really needed that about now.
Thanks.
Forrest
When I delivered all my "talking sketches" Friday, I made sure your gargoyle photoshop was in there!
They wanted to explore more columns, so here was another version with four slimmer columns, and some rescaling of the roof -
View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/9/2008 2:49 pm by McDesign
LOL- i hope they had a sense of humor!
Geeze, if i'd known you were going to do that, i'd have tarted it up a bit more (yes, it could have gone WAY farther over the top). You are being a good sport to entertain all their ideas. that porch is too small for 4 columns, and the door is to pretty to hide. Keep us posted.
What is the spacing between the two middle columns?
I'd want that to be as large as possible to allow for ease of movement.
I'm not a huge fan of the colonnade across the top and prefered the shorter conical roof. My personal thoughts are if there is no access or ability to stand on the surface above the colonnade looks to "fake". That's just my opinion though.
<Are you still working on that project?>
Yes, but the client's in the mortgage crises lending time - hard to get what they want - that's why they had wanted me to carry it! I have hope, though.
Forrest - springing eternal
Ok, i've never heard of a "conical hip" roof. Is that a conical roof made up of triangles, i.e. segmented? It seems like it would look a little 'busy' for such a small entry.
I meant that the front half of the roof would be a smooth cone, with the sides going back straight, perpendicular into the main roof. looking at it from the top, it would be a "U" in cross-section.
Forrest
Just for giggles...draw her a turret with a conical roof. I'm guessing she jumps at the idea. <G>
View Image
Lemme guess, 5000 sq. ft first floor house on a 6000 sq. ft lot .
;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
yabbut...
The house has a circular drive and when the 6' vinyl fence goes up you won't be able to see the next McMansion over unless you look out the second-floor windows. Now stop kibbitzing and look at the nice granite countertops!
Looks like a blatant mis-match to me, but it seems likely she just wants to dress up the front with a picturesque porch, and doesn't have the design vocabulary or sensitivity to know what's appropriate. I would ask her if you could submit a few design sketches that would be apropos for her particular building, see if she'll work with you on selecting something that would be a better fit. After all, your name will be on it when its done.
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Edited 12/31/2007 11:31 pm by Huck
<I would ask her if you could submit a few design sketches>
Yep; I'll be working on that this week - will post some sketches here, I'm sure.
Forrest
Okay - real time here. Just got this "as-built" sketched. Working on some possibilities now.
View Imagex
Forrest
Edited 1/3/2008 11:40 am by McDesign
A bit of noodling - not really happy with these goofy two. It's being awfully tough to integrate the roof, without having to reroof all the front. 10' column base is 21-1/2" square, and darned little room for it -
Flat roofView Image
Conical roofView Image
Silly roofView Image
Forrest - staring into the air
Edited 1/3/2008 2:13 pm by McDesign
Refresher view -
View Image
Anyone? I could sure use some free inspiration on this one!
Forrest
Edited 1/3/2008 2:12 pm by McDesign
Any room in the budget for a dormer (fake or real) above the entry? The Norman-style houses I've seen normally had one and they'd blend the porck overhang into it.
<dormer (fake or real) above the entry? >
Interesting!
Forrest
I think a hip roof instead of conical might integrate more easily.
You're limited on depth though- the entrance is not very deep.
<hip roof >
The entry is shallow - but they really want a curved fascia to match their curved steps. The center of the peak, or the intersection of the hip planes, is ~7' back from the front wall of the house, keeping everything 9/12 to match..
Here it is with that colonnade from the brick house that they like - mix-and-match styles! Kinda' pointless with no access up there.View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/3/2008 2:47 pm by McDesign
Forrest
That would look elegant on a 2 story home, but it looks too out of character to me.
Walter
how do you access the "balcony"? 16 foot stepladder?
The balcony to nowhere. Oh Romeo where art thou?
Okay - we've arrived at this - hipped to match the other two, twin 10' X 22" columns.
View Image
Might happen in July.
Or August.
Or maybe not.
Forrest
Edited 4/3/2008 2:32 pm ET by McDesign
How many different projects are you working on right now?
jt8
"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles." -- Doug Larson
Hey! Excellent question - allow me to retort.
1) The RS pine poolhouse/cypress pergola thing 2) Designing and quoting a 1000 sq.ft. attic finish-out (new thread tonight)3) D&Q a master bath renovation, with a big shower and all4) D&Q that big arched footbridge - found a mill that can make the lumber I want5) Hoping the client will sign on the line for this thread's front porch roof addition6) Designing a WHOLE HOUSE for a client in Lincoln, NE who is retiring here. Might quote to build; probably be too big.7) Making the cypress 8x8 columns for the house I made those basement windows for8) Deciding if I want to modify a set of plans in exchange for a Suburban 9) And, of course, working on my car in my spare time
Forrest
I agree with Walter, I think a hip like the one over the bump out to the right of the entry would be more in character with the rest of the house. Go with a rectangle (in plan) and forget about matching the curve of the steps.
Here's a view of that idea...
Woo Hoo! Nice.
Thanks for that.
Forrest - gotta' get SketchUp
I'm still bending roof pans for tomorrow, so I don't have time to sketch it, but another idear is to take eric_harper's ideay and curve the front hip if the HO is dead set on a radiused front.http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
I like the collonade desiogn that your client favors. Only thing I would maybe do different is extend the roof perimeter out about 18" or so.
Keep the arc the same as the steps--only more of it. Does that make sense to you?
Start by widening the starting points more toward the left and right windows.
David--no help what-so-ever.
The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
edit: I guess what I'm trying to say (albiet unsuccessfully), is to just make the "footprint" of the roof larger than the steps. Same arc, scaled up.
Clear as mud?
Edited 1/3/2008 3:44 pm ET by davidhawks
It definitely needs a larger "covering" overhang. That eavestrough detail looks dinky
Is it possible to show us a picture of the whole house? I am thinking along the lines of others that a hip roof would look the best, as long as it remains proportionate with the rest of the house.
Hip may be the solution - I think they may have to come to it in their own time. Here's from across the street -
View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/9/2008 7:13 pm by McDesign
Worked on this hipped version this morning; enlarged it ~25% to seem big enough for four columns; brought the column bases forward, off the steps onto their own piers.
View Image
Forrest - back
Edited 1/10/2008 10:52 am by McDesign
What's this look like in plan view? I would think it might be a bit much, given the hipped bump-outs in the building on either side. Three of such right in a row? All of different proportions? Hmmm. . . .
I think I'd be leaning towards semi-circle porch, a flat roof, no balusters above, support columns appropriatedly sized and located.
I'm no expert in this style tho' -- far from it! I'll be interested to see how this one ends up.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Forrest - you do nice work. Just a suggestion from a student of the visual arts: When analyzing the relationships and visual impact of forms, shapes, and masses - lose those busy textures. They are just a distraction, and the result produced is far removed from the visual impact of the finished product. I think you'll find that a simple line drawing, or solid half-tones representing values of dark or light, would be much more apropos for the application. Love your logo, btw.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Looks like too much column for such a small space and the two center columns obstruct the door. If they're stuck on four columns, would pairing them work? Is the porch hip roof the same pitch as the main roof?http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
Thanks all -
Here's an update of the 4-column hipped one, to address some questions - the whole house, less cluttered fills, and showing the roof pitches are all the same.
Client will get some new sketches tonight.
View Image
Forrest - glad to be here
Edited 1/10/2008 4:28 pm by McDesign
Looks better when you get the whole picture.
Stile sux.http://grantlogan.net/
View Image
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
I look at the three bump-outs as Papa Bear, Mama Bear and Baby Bear.
Uhhh -
Oh, nothing.
Forrest
I like the idea of tying it into a dormer but haven't seen a mockup yet.
I also like the idea of a round front hip roof but I would do it in a copper roof with a low pitch to keep it from being over the top.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Cone or hip is fine with me, but the colonnade looked burlesque. I don't mind it without the colonnade, i.e. just a flat, semi-circular roof. The first time i saw the columns, i also thought the door looked squashed between the center two, and they still look just a bit heavy for what a small roof they're holding up.
No gargoyles? <G>
Don't know if this is helpful, but maybe it gives you some additional thoughts.http://www.neilbacchus.com/images/Results1_2/1_2.jpg
'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
Forrest,
Are spending too much time with plaster of Paree and not enough sketching???
Fill us in on the latest when you have time.
Walter
Thanks - looks like that little arched foot-bridge will be next. I'll start tomorrow, if I can fight my way, with a trailer, through a quarter inch of snow tomorrow morning to pick up a load of used Trex.
Forrest
Don't forget to chain up now. Can be difficult out there you know.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
You've obviously never been to the mid-South during the "driving dodgeball" that happens during a slight dusting.Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
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