Man oh man you made a happy man yesterday, I built two hip sets on the ground for the first time and what a time saver. Holy crap I will never build another on the walls again. They were 28 ft long and around 7 ft tall and fit like a dream. It couldn’t have been any easier.
My guys and the crane driver said I was nuts and it wouldn’t work, but when it did they all were amazed. So was I.
This roof we are framing now is a 8/12-12/12 irregular hip and they usually give me fits, until I remembered what you told me in another thread about hip trusses set points fascia and girders, it went together excellent and no headaches in half the time.
I forgot my camera for this milestone in my life, but you’ve seen it before.
I owe you big time, I’ll buy dinner next time I’m in the Flint area.
Thanks alot man, for making my life a little easier.
Can’t you hear the violin playing your song.
Replies
LOL.... that's awesome.
My guys and the crane driver said I was nuts and it wouldn't work, but when it did they all were amazed.
Tell 'em, "Roll with me or get rolled over". That's great dude.
I really can't believe how easy this was, I have had a crappy grin on my face for two days now and can't get rid of it. I feel like I cheated or something. My truss supplier came out to watch and loved it. He's not recomending it but really liked watching it.
I flew these two hip sets in and they made up almost 1/2 the roof, if I would've built these things on the walls I would've been doing it for two days. I built these things on the ground in 3 hours.
That is right roll with me or get rolled over! Really dig that saying, I'm stealing it.Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
I don't know crap about trusses because we stick frame everything over here. But I know enough to have a pretty good picture of what you flew in over there and I think it's awesome.
I remember a couple years ago... first time I cut an entire hip roof on the ground while my guys were framing the walls. They thought I was nuts for not at least setting the commons and hips before I went and cut all the jacks. But when something just finally 'clicks' in your head.... man... you know you've got it going on. And there is no rush in the world that can compare to that. In an instant you feel better, faster, smarter, and slicker at what you've been doing every day of the week for however many years it's been.
It like you just figured out one more piece of that big 'ole puzzle. Yeah man... those milestones are a rush. It's the relentless pursuit of the next one that keeps you going.
When we started putting that first hip together that I had cut without pulling a tape.... man was it cool. The guys were totally digging it because everything was just fitting perfectly. The thing went up so fast and so right on.... you just know what that high feels like. That's why I was so pysched for ya. I'm framing vicariously now! LOL...View Image
I wish I knew how to cut a roof on the ground, no one has ever shown me how. I would learn it in a heartbeat. I really like the looks of a hand framed roof, I have done gable houses, but hips are another animal. I would work for someone for free if they would show me the right way of it.
I can cut one by measuring each piece but that isn't that hard.
It doesn't get any better than that to me, when that light bulb turns on. A rush is a good way of putting it, because thats what it is.
Trusses have just become alot easier thanks to someone who I have never met. This was a big milestone in trusses for me, these irregular hip sets always take forever, hopefully not anymore.
Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Edited 6/30/2006 8:26 pm ET by Stilletto
I love cutting a roof Stilletto. There's just so much to learn, so it provides a lot of opportunities for those Eureka! moments. And I too, love the way they look when framed up right. Sometimes I hate to put the sheathing on because I think they're so pretty. Yeah, I know.... I'm sick.
But it's all what you're used to, I guess. I framed a little 24x24 garage last summer as a filler job. Simple gable w/ attic trusses. I about lost my mind setting the trusses (by hand) and was clueless as to how to brace them properly. I had to have someone come out and show me. It was humbling, to say the least. Got lots to learn, I do.View Image
I'll trade you hand framing roofs for trusses. You'll learn all you need to know about trusses in about 30 min with the right guy. If you can stick frame you can do trusses.
All they mostly are is rafters with no ridge. Keep your heel heights the same and everything for the most part turns out great.
Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
"Sometimes I hate to put the sheathing on because I think they're so pretty"Ain't that the truth. Not that I have ever done production framing, but when I did my house last year I finally pre cut two hip roofs on the ground and it was quite a joy to see it go all up without a hitch. I mainly did remodelling and additions when building so I was always leary about potentially wasting alot of lumber. I think a nicely done roof is akin to a boatbuilder framing a hull.
> I wish I knew how to cut a roof on the ground, no one has ever shown me how.
It must have been well explained in the instructions that came with framing squares 99 years ago.
My late father used to tell a story about grandpa when he first came to America. One of the things he did to learn English was to study those instructions. One day he went to work real early, and had most of a roof cut out before the boss arrived. The boss was sure it would be a disaster and nothing would fit. But they put it together, and it worked exactly as cut.
I still have that framing square, but the instructions are long gone. It would be interesting to find a copy.
-- J.S.
I got one of my grandpa's framing squares too. I didn't get the instructions either.Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Are you and Stilletto talking about this little book?http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=44935&cat=1,46096,46100&ap=2
Probably an earlier version. The square is an OVB brand sold by Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett, & Co. of Chicago. circa 1907.
-- J.S.
Didn't you guys ever play with blocks when you were kids? ;-)
What do mean by blocks?
I was a pretty good Lego block mason.Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Not to dispel your wonder and joy in discovering the beauty of seeing preengineered components come together in 3D space, but it is an old rerun for me.
You see, I was an engineer all my working life, before I took up housebuilding when retiring from my day job. And a part of that engineering career was spent in heavy and commercial construction, dealing with fabricated structural steel.
Some of what a roofcutter does, is practiced by those who detail structural steel, and I was detailing steel to help pay for engineering school tuition when I was nineteen.
They probably have 3D CAD to do most of it today, but back in the vellum and pencil days, I got $100 a sheet to grind out the lines, and I had to be fast and accurate to make money. I would take the design drawings and make detailed drawings of all the parts and assemblies so the fab shops could cut, punch, drill, cope, and weld up all the piecemarked members. We used trig tables and big mechanical calculators to figure our stuff, and lookup tables to quickly get to decimal feet or inches from the fractions, and then back again. A Construction Master Pro would have been great to have!
You name it. Bridges, tunnels, airport terminals, transmission towers, stadiums, high rise buildings, mine structures, I probably worked on them all. Compound angles galore.
So, I smile to myself when I hear the praises sung for the craft roofcutter, by the same guys who will precut all their studs, jacks, cripples, sills, and headers. I always think, "What's the big deal? Isn't a precut just a precut, whether angles are involved or not?"
Pre cutting cripples and headers is not even in the same league as cutting roofs in my book.
I'm sure it's not impossible to learn, it's just something that I haven't been schooled in yet. I cut lots of rafters now for bay windows and valleys and shed roofs, thats fairly easy.
Maybe I am making more of this than there really is but I doubt it.
I was shown trusses as a kid and still use them now, had I been shown rafters thats probably what I would be doing instead.
I am slowly getting good at rafters, yesterday I cut two bay window roofs and had them put together with facia by 3:00 pm. Today I cut a shed roof and had that put together in an hour or so.
Not anything special but baby steps for a long time truss guy.Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
I'm happy you are making progress Stilletto. Don't let old Gene rain on your parade. He's an office guy who has all the time in the world to figure out how to layout the angles. When the stuff gets fabbed and shipped to the job, the real craftsmen figure out how to make his theoretical stuff work, in the real world. Those two worlds rarely are similar.
If you truly want to figure out what is going on on those hips, get a simple framing book and reverse engineer your hip sets. When you can run the math on the hip sets, you'll take a mamoth giant step forward.
I"m interested in the numbers on those hipsets. IF you can, give me the dimensions of the house and the pitches of the roofs. I'm curious and just want to have an idea of how easy or difficult your hipsets were.
Again, contrats for "stepping out of the box".
blue
The house is 38'x28',
The 38' dimension is the front and back of the house 8/12 pitch.
The sides are 28' and 12/12 pitch. Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Here's a picture for you, The garage has a bonus room and it has intersecting gables on it.
The attic trusses make up one gable and I have to stick frame the gables off the front and back. I assembled the floor joists on the ground and nailed the girder off on the walls. Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
That picture certainly surpised me Stilletto! I was expecting to see a hipset framed and instead saw an entire bonus room! LOL!
I was just thinking about preframing for sections of a large custom in exactly the same manner as you have. The bonus room girders will probably be three or four ply though.
I like your gumption. I'm curious about why you guys didn't use a tagline on that beast though? I should warn you that if you continue down your path, you'll soon be building everything on a table LOL!
The hipsets on the house pictured are rather routine and I'm sure you found out that it is quite easy to preframe and set the hipset. We usually set the hipset with two guys, but it's not unusual for one guy to set it.
Good work, keep the pictures coming!
blue
I was gonna comment on building the house on the table. That system is so cool.
Tipi fest 06. I'm getting wood.
Sorry dude but a carpenter with nothing but a framing square, pencil and saw who can use their brains and figure out the cut list for a complicated roof on site in the heat or rain is far more impressive to me then an engineer working with calculators and trig tables.
Don't get me wrong there are some amazing engineering out there but someone has to put it together!
Hey there, Mr. Apprentice! This engineer-turned-carpenter-turned-builder can cut a roof with a framing square and a saw, too. Just like you. Book-learned the framing square stuff, then got tuned up to its use by an Amish roof cutter.
I'd rather use the CM Pro, though, just like all the carpenters nowadays do. Faster and more accurate. That's what we are paid for, right?
You know, if it weren't for them engineers, you and I couldn't be having this dialog in cyberspace. I'm more impressed by that than by you out cutting a roof in the rain and mud.
Now let's get back to Stilletto and his biz of putting together more and more engineered components.
Gunner, that's the only way to go, in my opinion. My back cannot take all the bending over anymore so the table extended my field life a couple of years.
blue
Neccesity is the mother of invention.
Tipi fest 06. I'm getting wood.
I always run a tagline on trusses, but two of my guys called in. I already had the crane scheduled because it was Friday or two weeks from now.
I had to scramble and call my dad who recently lost his job at a factory to help me set trusses.
I was running from the top of the garage walls to the ground hooking up the next truss then running back and nailing the truss in place.
The hipsets went great without a doubt the easiest ones I have done yet.
The bonus room trusses were three ply girders I nailed the next two on after they hit the wall.Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
A few years ago I saw a TV show where they had large victorian or Queen Ann home that caught fire than the damages where extensive.They though that it was a teardown.But the arch or builder came up with the idea of using trusses and built the WHOLE ROOF AND ATTIC on the ground. Including shingles and dormers.IIRC the house was something like 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 stories.Lifted the whole assembly into place with a crane.Saves a very large amount over stick framing in place. I think something like $50-75k.
When I was first starting out as a carpenter one of the guys who I partnered with was an engineer 20 years my senior. He did the same thing, steel structural & frame drafting in a shipyard. All of what you're talking about he knew. I can't begin to tell you all the things he taught me, and it all came from his structural engineering. He taught me how to read plans and to see something done before it was started.
Bump,
Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Next time can you get some pics of this process? I'm interested.
Sure can, I would have this time but my wife took the camera out of the truck to take pictures of her nephews. She didn't tell me and I found out the hard way. :(Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
When I had my house built about 10 years ago the framers had a guy who was the roof specialist. They built the walls and brought him in. He cut all of my roof which is 2 intersecting gables and a dormer on the ground and organized it into bundles for the crane to deliver. All of it went together with less than a saw kerf's worth of accumulated error from one end of the house to the other. He cut and assembled the whole thing by himself in just a few days. It was very impressive.